From 3K ebike to paperweight a Giant Talon E tale

[Big07]

So I have a new Giant Talon E. Ridden a few times before the bike was crashed.

After the crash the rear seat stay has bent and split from the frame.

Warranty was denied as the damage was due to a crash. The shop was not able to provide a replacement frame.
Obviously because this was damaged in a crash I 100% agree with the shop that it's not covered by warranty and I agree with the sentiment of "you broke it, you bought it". I would never expect a shop or manufacturer to pay for damaged caused by rider error.

Apparently for the carbon ebike frames you can purchase a replacement frame if you bike is damaged in a crash, however this is not an option for the alloy ebikes. I have asked the shop to try and pressure Giant, however it seems that replacement frames are not available. To clarify, when I say not available I don't mean, "Due to demand there is an 8 month+ wait time on sourcing a frame". Giant simply do not sell these frames, end of. I'd be more understanding if this was an older model frame that wasn't being made anymore but this is a new frame that is still being manufactured.

Now if you have a regular bike, say a Giant Trance and you crack the frame you could always go and buy a Trek Remedy frame or similar, transfer over 90% of the parts and away you go. Even if you had an ebike with the shimano motor it would be possible to source an ebike frame from another manufacturer or china and swap everything over. However as Giant have a proprietary motor it's not possible to swap to another frame.


So it appears that my current options are:
1) Sell for parts
Not ideal. Probably won't get a great price for the battery and who wants to buy this motor when they would still have warranty cover on their own motor for a few years. The parts on the bike are very cheap and the money is in the frame/motor/battery

2) Weld it back together and send it !
Ok, so maybe more like get it professionally welded and use it as a town bike / beach cruiser / commuter.


What lessons can you learn from my mistake?
- Buy an ebike with a shimano motor
- Maybe the carbon bike is a better option?
- Don't crash.

From this article:

Giant monsters bike sale numbers | Newsroom | Bicycle Network

Massive Taiwanese bicycle manufacturer Giant has reported huge sales revenue from e-bikes and standard bikes for the first quarter of this year.

www.bicyclenetwork.com.au

- "Revenue is up 55% for the first quarter of 2021."
- "More astonishingly, e-bikes are 30% of all sales revenue."
- "Giant’s own branded e-bikes revenue jumped 108% over the same period last year, with income from bikes it makes for other companies also on the rise."
- "While standard bicycles are a low margin business in the mass market sector, e-bikes are raking in the profits. They are more expensive, the margins are fat, and they are flying off the shelves because they are seen by customers as great value compared to a car."



Me: "Hey Giant, you seem to be doing well financially, can you sell me a replacement frame? Happy to pay"
Giant: "No"

 

[RickBullotta]

A competent bike welder/builder should be able to get that back to full strength (and maybe even beef up the other seatstay while they're at it).

 

[Zimmerframe]

That sucks !!

Impressive frame damage considering you were running egg beater pedals ! I think on that alone they should just give you a new bike !

I suspect/hope you can find a capable frame/aluminium expert who can re-shape/re-align and tig weld things back up for you.

 

[Doomanic]

If the bike is insured on your home contents insurance you may have accidental damage cover.

 

[Big07]

Just blows my mind that you can't get a frame from the biggest manufacturer in the world, but you can go on aliexpress / alibaba and find a frame no worries. If only giant had shimano motors.

 

[Big07]

If the bike is insured on your home contents insurance you may have accidental damage cover.

Cheers. Good idea. Unfortunately I don't have any home insurance / credit card protection, etc.. that would cover me. Does highlight the value of having bike insurance.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Just blows my mind that you can't get a frame from the biggest manufacturer in the world, but you can go on aliexpress / alibaba and find a frame no worries. If only giant had shimano motors.

Can't remember which iteration of the "syncdrive" it is in that, but most likely it's a Yamaha PW-X.

 

[thbo]

Can't remember which iteration of the "syncdrive" it is in that, but most likely it's a Yamaha PW-X.

I was going to say the same. The motor is Yamaha, only the firmware is custom for Giant. Like Brose motors and Specialized. Of course not as many fitting frames as for Shimano EP-8 but I’m sure there are quite a few.

As for Giant it’s probably a pure business decision to use all alloy frames for new bikes and new customers. Maybe they aren’t used to value loyalty, but are you sure they won’t give you a discount on a full new bike?

 

[flash]

Maybe start bypassing the shop and contacting Giant directly to see if they'll sell you a carbon frame or work out a deal on an alloy one.

Beg, plead and be nice. Mention this thread.

Gordon

 

[DtEW]

I think where the shop is stuck at is the lack of a part number to order the frame for you. As flash suggested, you might want to try contacting Giant directly. They should have access to parts and remedies beyond what is available on their dealer price lists.

 

[Pdoz]

I see you are in Australia ? There was an add in the vic mtb buy swap sell facebook page a month ago with someone looking for a trance frame - presumably in a similar situation. It might be worth reaching out and seeing what was offered?

Come to think of it - how about setting up a facebook page where we can source / sell our giant cr@p . Include a link to giant HQ when enquiring about a replacement frame?

 

[flash]

I see you are in Australia ? There was an add in the vic mtb buy swap sell facebook page a month ago with someone looking for a trance frame - presumably in a similar situation. It might be worth reaching out and seeing what was offered?

Come to think of it - how about setting up a facebook page where we can source / sell our giant cr@p . Include a link to giant HQ when enquiring about a replacement frame?

He's in the US.

Gordon

 

[Pdoz]

He's in the US.

Gordon

doh....I saw au on the link and arse u me d

 

[Big07]

FYI, I am located in Australia. I did have the location listed on my forum profile as 'USA' (I've changed it now).

The shop also has the serial number on the frame so they know exactly what is required.
I've had some experience with big companies and I just get the feeling that Giant don't have anything setup for this situation simply because it has just hasn't happened to many people yet. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the first 2021 alloy ebike frame in the world that has been written off in a crash. If the shop had something in their ordering system that said "Giant Talon E frame - P/N 1234 $XXX" I'm sure that they would be able to order it in for me.

But whenever someone has a problem that falls outside their existing processes/procedures then it just falls through the cracks.

 

[flash]

doh....I saw au on the link and arse u me d

haha. looks like it was me that arse u med….

Gordon

 

[DtEW]

The shop also has the serial number on the frame so they know exactly what is required.

A serial number is not a part number. And a part number indicates nothing in terms of its existence on a wholesale price list that a shop can order. You're assuming retail back-ends are always well-interfaced with the distributor, and all they have to do is to call into the mothership, give a serial number... somebody on that end punches it into their mainframe, and comes back with all the info needed for ordering anything their heart desires. You might be surprised that it is often much more antiquated than even that, and that warranty/customer support often have a supply chain of their own to get around the "efficiencies" of the normal distribution route.

I mean, if you want to accept that everybody else is all-powerful and fully-sorted-out, and just doesn't want to help you... and therefore that's why you're stuck up a creek... that's your choice. I personally would try to exhaust all possibilities available to me, which includes pleading-with/harassing the manufacturer.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Bad luck about the crash but with the amazing skills bike builders & alloy fabricators have I can't actually see that being a hard repair to do. I hope it gets sorted for you. May be time to upgrade to a full squish.
Speaking of crashes I just watched Gee Athertons crash on the knife edge video - now that's what you call a crash!!

 

[Big07]

A serial number is not a part number. And a part number indicates nothing in terms of its existence on a wholesale price list that a shop can order. You're assuming retail back-ends are always well-interfaced with the distributor, and all they have to do is to call into the mothership, give a serial number... somebody on that end punches it into their mainframe, and comes back with all the info needed for ordering anything their heart desires. You might be surprised that it is often much more antiquated than even that, and that warranty/customer support often have a supply chain of their own to get around the "efficiencies" of the normal distribution route.

I mean, if you want to accept that everybody else is all-powerful and fully-sorted-out, and just doesn't want to help you... and therefore that's why you're stuck up a creek... that's your choice. I personally would try to exhaust all possibilities available to me, which includes pleading-with/harassing the manufacturer.

Not sure how you got that from what I wrote.
To clarify I do understand that nothing is perfect with retailers / distributors / manufacturers and their systems and processes can be a mess, that's fair enough. I don't expect miracles. I also don't expect them to hand out a free frame under warranty after a crash.
In this specific instance, it's not that they can't find that part number. This frame is simply not for sale. Their default position is that a customer cannot buy a replacement frame.
I don't work in the bike industry so maybe this is par for the course. But one look at pinkbike's 'friday fails' and you get the feeling that "Hmm.. it's totally possible that someone might actually crash their "mountain bike" one day, maybe we should have replacements available". You can go to Fox/Rockshox and buy the most obscure parts for old forks and suspension, but not a 2021 frame that is still being made in the giant factory.

 

[DtEW]

Not sure how you got that from what I wrote.
To clarify I do understand that nothing is perfect with retailers / distributors / manufacturers and their systems and processes can be a mess, that's fair enough. I don't expect miracles. I also don't expect them to hand out a free frame under warranty after a crash.
In this specific instance, it's not that they can't find that part number. This frame is simply not for sale. Their default position is that a customer cannot buy a replacement frame.

I think you're misreading what I'm saying as well: I accepted your finding that you can't buy a replacement frame through retail means. My point is even when a part isn't available for a retailer to source from the distribution arm of a Mfgr... the Mfgr itself has other arms that can supply the part, either to their own customer service arm... or straight to you. They often can work out a way to sell that part to you when the situation calls for it. I'm just saying that you should talk to Giant directly since you are hitting a dead-end with the LBS. You might be surprised.

 

[Rusty]

Just blows my mind that you can't get a frame from the biggest manufacturer in the world, but you can go on aliexpress / alibaba and find a frame no worries. If only giant had shimano motors.

Sadly, Giant NZ is a sub of your importer. Absolutely the worst reputation for warranty issues. Not that their predecessor was any better.
Your frame however is very much repairable.
Oh, and yes the current prices for ebikes is complete and total profiteering by the manufacturers. Levo S-Works $25,400 - Levo Pro $21,200 ... yeah riiight

 

[JetSetDemo]

Did you ask what they would do if it was deemed a manufacturing fail? Would they then replace the frame or just a complete new bike? I am curious as if they can’t replace a bad frame at all then that might point to no ability for dealers to order the frame in any situation.

 

[Big07]

Did you ask what they would do if it was deemed a manufacturing fail? Would they then replace the frame or just a complete new bike? I am curious as if they can’t replace a bad frame at all then that might point to no ability for dealers to order the frame in any situation.

If this was a genuine warranty defect they would have replaced the frame.
It would have taken 1-2weeks for the frame to be delivered to the shop from taiwan.
It would cost a few hundred dollars for the shop to swap over all components (which the customer pays)

 

[JetSetDemo]

If this was a genuine warranty defect they would have replaced the frame.
It would have taken 1-2weeks for the frame to be delivered to the shop from taiwan.
It would cost a few hundred dollars for the shop to swap over all components (which the customer pays)

So a frame is available separately rather than just a complete bike it’s just they won’t let you buy one.

In the UK I would probably seek some solution with the retailer under the sale of goods act, not sure how well protected you guys are over there but this sounds like poor after sales support from the manufacturer.

I would try and find out the CEO’s email and send to them direct.

since brexit I spend time each week working on CEO concerns, I work for a large multinational US company in there UK operations and believe me emails to the CEO do get results if the company genuinely cares about its customers and they haven’t been able to fix there issues through the normal channels.

what do you have to loose, it’s just an email?

 

[Big07]

So a frame is available separately rather than just a complete bike it’s just they won’t let you buy one.

Exactly.
I will certainly try all possible options to get this sorted.

 

[#mitch]

How long from purchase to it breaking? A quick google brings me to this Consumer guarantees which basically says “Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.” A small get off should not damage the bike like that. Personally I would go that way to get them to fix it.

 

[blueglide]

Looking at his posted pic that was not a small get off. That was a serious crash.

 

[Big07]

How long from purchase to it breaking? A quick google brings me to this Consumer guarantees which basically says “Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.” A small get off should not damage the bike like that. Personally I would go that way to get them to fix it.

It was a massive high speed crash. The bike is made for mountain biking, not being flipped upside down and having the seat stay smashed onto rocks. I'm not a dick, I agree that it's not covered by warranty, consumer guarantees, etc.. I am just trying to get a replacement (that I will pay for)

If I was to complain to a govt dept I would go via Fair Trading or the ACCC, their website states:
"Products must also:
- have spare parts and repair facilities available for a reasonable time after purchase unless you were told otherwise."

It's up not up to Giant or I to decide if a replacement frame falls under 'spare parts', that's for Fair Trading/ACCC to decide. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

 

[#mitch]

You may not be a dick but you also dont owe Giant anything especially after telling you to pound sand about getting a new frame. Its up to you but sometimes you need to fight fire with fire. You gave them a chance to do the right thing.

 

[Acousticmood]

Could you salvage all the parts and buy a frame from another manufacturer?

 

[MadManPedal]

These low entry Giant series were meant for flat road, not for mountain. The geometry is bad enough. The bike can hardly turn because the pedal almost hits the front wheel. Next time you go to the mountain make sure the front wheel is at least 2-3 feet ahead than this one.