Fox 38..whose buying?

[photocycycler]

I love the idea of the stiffer chassis, I have a Decoy 29 which I wanted to upgrade to 160mm in front. I know the 36 is fine but want the 38. Not sure where I will end up but curious of those buying the 38 and why?

 

[R120]

Are they available yet? I know they where supposed to be in late May.

I would consider it, and I would definitely like to try one, but in all honestly it would be as much about getting the latest greatest bit of bling rather than a performance upgrade. I have Lyric Ultimates, and I cant fault them, the only thing that interest me vs the 38 is that I run a 223mm rotor up front, and the fork noticeably flexes more under hard breaking, and I would like to see how the 38'S operate with big brakes.

Either way I would want to see the new RS Zeb fork that is coming out first, and see some reviews of both back to back, as based on current RS v Fox pricing the Zeb is likely to be better value, and I also prefer the Lyric Ultimate to my Factory 36.

 

[YokoOno]

I'm sure it would be awesome and suspect the 38 chasis was designed with e-bikes in mind. RockShox has a version of one coming out shortly as well.

I'm partial to RockShox, but only because I'm partial to Push internals and would use their ACS3 and HC97 with the Rock Shox product.

Having said that, I'm quite happy with my Yari extended to 170mm, with Push internals.

 

[Zero]

Evolution rather than revolution.

I'm pretty happy with the grip 2 in the 36 on the decoy.

I'm sure they will be on most high end bikes next year though.

 

[rb.]

I just ordered a 2021 160mm fox 36 ebike fork that is scheduled to arrive this week. As long as that is the case, I will be able to put some miles on it this weekend. I talked to a guy who worked at fox and he said the ebike version is slightly stiffer and heavier than the normal 36. (Haven’t looked at their claimed weight since I don’t really care for an ebike).

Only reason I didn’t get a 38 is because my local shop couldn’t get them for a few more weeks and I was tired of this 150mm Yari that came stock.

 

[photocycycler]

I have the 29 version decoy which I have not ridden yet but thinking I only need 160 up front. I am more of a FOX guy especially since I do not think Rockshox has any good rear shock offerings comparable to the X2 so leaning towards FOX.

I am debating between the older 2020 36 which can be had for a deal or a 2021 36 which got me thinking about the 38. I am not doing any big jumps, drops or GAPs and am semi concerned with weight.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Curious, why not just get a Dual Crown? A 180mm Dual crown Boxxer has the same Axle to Crown measurment as a 170mm Lyrik so you can preserve the Geo or slacket it a bit more and get 190mm

 

[TransAmMan]

I am very tempted to accidently order a new Fox 38 fork when its available in a matter of days (accidently ordered is the excuse I give my wife - lol … have already played the safety card too many times )

Main reasoning would be the 170mm aspect, as the Fox 36 on the decoy 2019 version cannot be increased to 170mm length (due to 34 air spring inside) .. ok and the bling factor .. alright … who am I kidding trying actually trying to justify a bike component purchase with reasoning - I just want the latest and greatest so in my mind I will ride faster.

I have never liked any version of air sprung Fox 36 forks until the Grip version was launched. I would put Rockshox and Fox now on par …flip a coin.

Good chance it may be on the 2021 Decoy as stock .. so might wait.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I wonder if we are near the point of the weak link in the suspension being the steerer tube?

how much less flex will a 38 have over a 36?

 

[Gary]

I wonder if we are near the point of the weak link in the suspension being the steerer tube?

We're not Rob.

look at motorcycle steerers. and what Fest guys are doing on 1&1/8" straight steerers

what I find funny is all the folk bimbling around doing (let's be honest here) pretty mediocre stuff on E bikes but craving MOAR STIFFNESS whilst intentionally having choosen a weaker/flexier wheelsize

 

[rb.]

I have never liked any version of air sprung Fox 36 forks until the Grip version was launched. I would put Rockshox and Fox now on par …flip a coin.

Good chance it may be on the 2021 Decoy as stock .. so might wait.

The new fox has lower leg channels which keep the foam rings lubed up hopefully causing less stiction over a longer period of time. And also the air bleeders are a nice improvement. This, along with a claimed better damper put the fox over RockShox as of now.

RockShox has been teasing their new zeb (totem) fork though. Interesting to see what that’s all about.

 

[TransAmMan]

I wonder if we are near the point of the weak link in the suspension being the steerer tube?

how much less flex will a 38 have over a 36?

Great point … when is the limit for when we move back to dual crown (and 20mm axles) rather than beefing up arches and steer tubes to compensate for flex.

Especially on bikes like the Decoy (and others) that are now using the Knock Block anyway that limits the turning radius already (which was always the knock (pun intended) against dual crown forks)

Creaking steer tubes on the trails nowadays are almost as noisy as the old Norco VPS monocoque frames were many years ago . .

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

We're not Rob.

look at motorcycle steerers. and what Fest guys are doing on in 1&1/8" straight steerers

what I find funny is all the folk bimbling around doing (let's be honest here) pretty mediocre stuff on E bikes but craving MOAR STIFFNESS whilst intentionally having choosen a weaker/flexier wheelsize

Yeah for sure!

but - will a Fox 38 be stiffer than a Boxxer, that has 35mm stanchions?

there has to be a point where there is a diminishing return, from an engineering standpoint.

obviously marketing standpoint is totally different, and 38 is MOAR than 36 so better, right ?

 

[Gary]

but - will a Fox 38 be stiffer than a Boxxer, that has 35mm stanchions?

in what direction?

you're not even considering the lack of stiffness the retarded 15mm axle standard the industry fooled everyone into downgrading to had on front end stiffness

 

[Gary]

TBF as someone who used to think nothing of hitting 50ft doubles on a 26" hardtail with a 100mm QR axle straight steerer rockshox judy I tend to think most Emtb riders are complete pussies and their cravings of MOAR stiffness, MOAR advanced suspension and DH parts etc. Especially when most are probably just bimbling about riding trail centres and local spots. It's sort of laughable. But even if you are a complete pinner or huge hucker it's still pretty much a first world problem

 

[Gary]

Great point … when is the limit for when we move back to dual crown (and 20mm axles) rather than beefing up arches and steer tubes to compensate for flex.

Especially on bikes like the Decoy (and others) that are now using the Knock Block anyway that limits the turning radius already (which was always the knock (pun intended) against dual crown forks)

Creaking steer tubes on the trails nowadays are almost as noisy as the old Norco VPS monocoque frames were many years ago . .

what do you mean move back?
Dual crown forks ahve never gene away and for their intended use they're still the No1 choice.
I haven't been without at least one dual crown DH bike for over 25 years. None of them are ever ridden uphill though. and every single one of them would be SLOWER than a 140mm trail bike on the flat.
Emtbs are (still) too heavy and because of this I genuinely find them ALL nowhere near as fun to ride as a good 30-32lb trail/Enduro bike. adding a kilo of fork to an already overweight bike really isn't going to help that.

Knock blocks are awful. But dual crowns have an even more reduced turning radius. Especially if you add in the (usually) beefy downtubes most Emtbs have

Oh... And plenty Fox 40 and Boxxers creak like a hoor's matress... trust me on that

 

[R120]

I rode Surrey Hills today for the first time since lockdown, its so fecking sry and the trails are running the fastest I have ever seen, and the trail fairies clearly haven't been subject to lockdown and have done some lovely work on the tracks. I found myself thinking my bike is overkill for this - dont get me wrong I had a blast and I love my bike, but got me thinking that something like a Levo SL might be a whole lot more appropriate.

 

[Gary]

TBF I'd still set up a levo SL with a longer fork and 27.5 wheels pretty much mimicking the geometry of the Sommet. but achieving a far more playful/maneouverable enduro Eeb

Geometry/travel isn't really waht makes the Esommet overkill to ride, it's its weight. My Capra is 165/170 and has pretty similar geo to the ESommet (except for being lower as I run 26" wheels on it) and it's a massively more fun bike to ride than the Sommet. pretty much entirely down to it being 18lb lighter.

 

[R120]

No thats what I meant by referencing the SL, the lower weight. Someone on here has done a tasty 27.5 160mm build on one, cant remeber who.

 

[rb.]

Got a text from my local bike shop last night saying my fork from fox arrived, but they sent a 27.5. And I’m guessing by now the 29” is still out of stock. Oh well, more miles on the stock yari I suppose.

#ThanksFox

 

[TransAmMan]

Got a text from my local bike shop last night saying my fork from fox arrived, but they sent a 27.5. And I’m guessing by now the 29” is still out of stock. Oh well, more miles on the stock yari I suppose.

#ThanksFox

Ouch that sucks ... I see Jenson USA is showing them available in 5 days if that is a back up option ?

We Canadians cannot order Fox goods from the USA (all ours come through a central distributor = higher costs) ... or I might have one in a couple weeks as well.

The chances of this happening are about equal to Liz Hurley knocking on my front door and asking me out on a date. Not impossible, but highly improbable.

Post up your thoughts when you get your hands on one

 

[rb.]

Ouch that sucks ... I see Jenson USA is showing them available in 5 days if that is a back up option ?

We Canadians cannot order Fox goods from the USA (all ours come through a central distributor = higher costs) ... or I might have one in a couple weeks as well.

The chances of this happening are about equal to Liz Hurley knocking on my front door and asking me out on a date. Not impossible, but highly improbable.

Post up your thoughts when you get your hands on one

I’ll wait for my local bike shop to order it for me either through qbp or fox direct. They help me out on price, so I like to stay “loyal” as much as I can. I say this as I currently own a direct to consumer bike. Lol.

 

[Gavalar]

Are they available yet? I know they where supposed to be in late May.

I would consider it, and I would definitely like to try one, but in all honestly it would be as much about getting the latest greatest bit of bling rather than a performance upgrade. I have Lyric Ultimates, and I cant fault them, the only thing that interest me vs the 38 is that I run a 223mm rotor up front, and the fork noticeably flexes more under hard breaking, and I would like to see how the 38'S operate with big brakes.

Either way I would want to see the new RS Zeb fork that is coming out first, and see some reviews of both back to back, as based on current RS v Fox pricing the Zeb is likely to be better value, and I also prefer the Lyric Ultimate to my Factory 36.

You maybe getting fork flex because your running too bigger rotor on it, from memory the max rotor size to run on the Lyrik Ultimates is 220mm.

 

[R120]

I really dont think 3mm is going to be making any difference, its a general thing with bigger rotors and riding hard, the fork flex a bit more than with a smaller rotor - its not an issue, its just I would be interested to see how the 38 compares. I also fitted Torque caps which made quite a bit of difference.

 

[Gary]

all forks flex from braking forces. no matter what the rotor size

 

[Gavalar]

all forks flex from braking forces. no matter what the rotor size

Agreed but never seen the point in running such a huge rotor on the front, I was speaking to an engineer from Ibis last year in Squamish and he believed that we're running them the wrong way around in that we should probably have the 200 at the rear and the 180 in the front as most trail, enduro and downhill riders are rear brake biased.

 

[seamarsh]

I love the idea of the stiffer chassis, I have a Decoy 29 which I wanted to upgrade to 160mm in front. I know the 36 is fine but want the 38. Not sure where I will end up but curious of those buying the 38 and why?

just dropped a Smashpot - Fork Coil Conversion System in my yari, so far it’s amazing. Tried running it at 170mm but made decoy 29 too slack for my liking. Dropped to 160mm which seems to be the sweet spot.

cool thing with this conversion is you can set travel internally from 150-180 so you can experiment. Also has hydraulic bottom out which is adjustable.. pretty awesome solution for 300$ usd.

for a 160mm fork yari chassis seems plenty stiff.

 

[R120]

Agreed but never seen the point in running such a huge rotor on the front, I was speaking to an engineer from Ibis last year in Squamish and he believed that we're running them the wrong way around in that we should probably have the 200 at the rear and the 180 in the front as most trail, enduro and downhill riders are rear brake biased.

I can’t think of any decent Enduro/DJ bike that doesn’t come with a 200/203mm out back.

I like the big rotor up front because of the extra weight of an EMTB - I wouldn’t run one in a normal bike, but for me at least has a lot of benefits on an EMTB.

 

[R120]

And also the point of the big front rotor (200/203 or 223 etc) is that it stops you when you need it - Father rear brake might see more use, but the front brake is the one you rely on for really killing speed and control.

 

[Gary]

Agreed but never seen the point in running such a huge rotor on the front, I was speaking to an engineer from Ibis last year in Squamish and he believed that we're running them the wrong way around

Running a larger front rotor comes from "racers" who actually do brake efficiently and on the race track will have exact braking zones, won't drag a rear brake needlessly or in corners and do actually have a front brake bais.
The front brake slows the bike down way more efficiently.
The only reason a larger rear rotor makes sense is to dissipate heat from brake dragging. .

in that we should probably have the 200 at the rear and the 180 in the front as most trail, enduro and downhill riders are rear brake biased.

Yes. most "punters" have a plethora of poor riding traits and do use their rear brake far too much.
But they also like to dress up like they are "racers" and copy what the actual fast, highly skilled and more confident "racers" do.
I've no idea why TBH. Low self esteem?