Focus - Check your shock and linkage bolts

[Zimmerframe]

If you look back through the Focus threads there are a couple of regularly occurring warnings, so I'll say the same thing again ! (@Moderator - maybe pin one of them ?)

I have to say, I love this bike (Jam2 6.9 Nine), I had a few doubts with the weight and the Fox fork, but I have to say it excels at everything and out performs my Kenevo with most things. On paper, it shouldn't do what it does as well as it does.

Some annoying things from the outset were the weird creak,creak,creak with each pedal revolution. The slightly unpredictable rear shock. The slight rear wheel steer feeling on a rare dry track.

I looked everywhere for the creak. It was still there with the suspension locked out, so I stupidly ruled that out straight away and decided it was the seat post or motor mounts. This morning I gave it a good check over for a ride and found some of the suspension bolts were wound out. This seems common on the Focus bikes. Snapped or loose suspension bolts. Loose rear axle.

My Axle was also loose when new.

The problem bolts (everything else is tight):

Now it's all tight, the creaks have gone and the rear end feels far more predictable ! I'm guessing it was binding and flexing.

I'm not sure what happens at Focus as this has been going on for several years and is too regular to be just unfortunate. @Focus-bikes (just in case you ever join the forum - please sort this out !)

I guess either the person who assembles the suspension doesn't care or is a homicidal maniac.

The person who assembles the suspension's torque wrench is completely screwed.

The procedures for assembling the suspension are completely wrong.

The specifications for assembling the suspension are inadequate.

It's strange as the rest of the bike all seems to be immaculately assembled.

And the chain guide is sh1t, as it needs to be raised almost all the way above the chain or it grinds in 1st and 2nd gear.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

1. holy shit !
2. I had this on both my levos, bolts were loose from the off
3. the levo chain guide is the same, swung mine out of the way
4. if I were Focus, I would deny all warranty claims on the basis that you put yellow pedals on a white bike

 

[Zimmerframe]

4. if I were Focus, I would deny all warranty claims on the basis that you put yellow pedals on a white bike

They're so wrong ... they're right !

I was worried that white or black ones would make it look like a star wars stormtroopers weekend bike !

 

[millemille]

You can't have your cake and eat it.....

If you want a light weight emtb then the fasteners used for suspension pivots and linkages have to be made from lightweight materials; on a motorbike the bolts used for this application would be steel and would weigh lb's as opposed to the aluminium ones used on your bike that weigh fractions of an oz.

The trade off for lightweight aluminium fasteners is low tightening torques and the reliance on threadlock for prevailing torque retention AND regular inspection and maintenance.

It's not an "issue" unique to Focus, my Trek Powerfly did exactly the same.

If the fasteners have come loose then they need stripping down and re-assembling exactly as per the factory manual and, if possible, witness marking so that any loosening is immediately visible or subject to regular 80% yield checking (set the torque wrench to 80% of the recommended tightening torque and try to tighten the fastener, if it moves at 80% then it needs stripping and re-assembling again. Do NOT try yield testing at 100% of the torque because the fastener will end up overtightened and aluminium fasteners tightened to a very low torque, when compared to steel fasteners of the same diameter/thread size, will snap).

I check all fasteners on my bike weekly for any movement.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

If you want a light weight emtb then the fasteners used for suspension pivots and linkages have to be made from lightweight materials; on a motorbike the bolts used for this application would be steel and would weigh lb's as opposed to the aluminium ones used on your bike that weigh fractions of an oz.

wait, 25kg is now a lightweight EMTB ? ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

You can't have your cake and eat it.....

If you want a light weight emtb then the fasteners used for suspension pivots and linkages have to be made from lightweight materials; on a motorbike the bolts used for this application would be steel and would weigh lb's as opposed to the aluminium ones used on your bike that weigh fractions of an oz.

The trade off for lightweight aluminium fasteners is low tightening torques and the reliance on threadlock for prevailing torque retention AND regular inspection and maintenance.

It's not an "issue" unique to Focus, my Trek Powerfly did exactly the same.

If the fasteners have come loose then they need stripping down and re-assembling exactly as per the factory manual and, if possible, witness marking so that any loosening is immediately visible or subject to regular 80% yield checking (set the torque wrench to 80% of the recommended tightening torque and try to tighten the fastener, if it moves at 80% then it needs stripping and re-assembling again. Do NOT try yield testing at 100% of the torque because the fastener will end up overtightened and aluminium fasteners tightened to a very low torque, when compared to steel fasteners of the same diameter/thread size, will snap).

I check all fasteners on my bike weekly for any movement.

I think you're miss understanding. This isn't a cake and eat it .. this was from new ! and yes, I should have bolt checked everything. I built my Kenevo up myself so I knew that was right. I made the mistake of presuming it was fine and not stripping it down and building it up again. Agreed, this can happen on lots of bikes, but you only need to keep an eye on the forum for a while to realise that this happens to a large proportion of Focus bikes - hence the warning for people to check and following on from the numerous other warnings other focus owners have taken the time to point out.

So no, I'm not talking about bolts coming loose - I'm talking about bolts which weren't tightened in the first place - which is a common theme !

 

[Zimmerframe]

wait, 25kg is now a lightweight EMTB ? ?

If it was 25kg's it would be light .. !

 

[millemille]

I think you're miss understanding. This isn't a cake and eat it .. this was from new ! and yes, I should have bolt checked everything. I built my Kenevo up myself so I knew that was right. I made the mistake of presuming it was fine and not stripping it down and building it up again. Agreed, this can happen on lots of bikes, but you only need to keep an eye on the forum for a while to realise that this happens to a large proportion of Focus bikes - hence the warning for people to check and following on from the numerous other warnings other focus owners have taken the time to point out.

So no, I'm not talking about bolts coming loose - I'm talking about bolts which weren't tightened in the first place - which is a common theme !

At no time have you said that the creaking was from new.....

 

[millemille]

wait, 25kg is now a lightweight EMTB ? ?

Think how much heavier it would be if things like axles, steerers, fork stanchions, pivot bolts etc. weren't aluminium....

 

[Zimmerframe]

At no time have you said that the creaking was from new.....

Some annoying things from the outset were the weird creak,creak,creak with each pedal revolution. The slightly unpredictable rear shock. The slight rear wheel steer feeling on a rare dry track.

You're correct. I guess from my perspective it was clear it was meant from new - as it's - new ... but yes .. literally from the first leg over ..

How's the Sam ?

 

[Doomanic]

wait, 25kg is now a lightweight EMTB ? ?

No. No it fucking isn't.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

No. No it fucking isn't.

but dood, its got aluminium bolts and everything !!!!!!!

 

[Zimmerframe]

No. No it fucking isn't.

It could be ..

We could call anything 20-26 as lightweight.

Over that can be normal weight.

Less than 20 can be the new "SUPER" light weight which means they can bump up prices again to sell more bikes with smaller cheaper motors and batteries ! We'll all be RICH !!!

 

[Doomanic]

We'll all be RICH !!!

Not if we're the mugs buying them...

 

[Zimmerframe]

but dood, its got aluminium bolts and everything !!!!!!!

No .. I think with the Bosch powered jams they have "Alloy" bolts. These are a mix of aluminium and lead. Either that or each bike has been used to smuggle gold, which will one day be recovered, and the bikes will suddenly lose 2kg's !

 

[Mikerb]

I can see no sign of any assembly grease on those pivots........that gease invariables "weeps" out with use...assumin there was any in the first place!!
I dont know if this helps but loose pivot bolts is something I have never experienced on my Levo or my Whyte but I do what I can can to protect them with a rear mudguard etc. Both bolts you highlighted are in direct line of fire for crap off the rear wheel.

Whenever I clean the bike after a ride I use a stiff bristle brush to clean out the inevitable accumulation of dirt that sits between the faces of the shock levers and drop some wet lube on those places. I leave that whilst I clean the chain then wipe around them.

 

[Mikerb]

Pivot bolts should be loctited so if they come loose they need to be removed, thoroughly cleaned and then reassembled. The shaft and behind the head should be greased and the thread should be thread locked with blue locktite..........the bike should then be left undisturbed for 24 hours to allow the loctite to cure.
If you want to subsequently check they are not coming loose it is better to mark the position of the head of the bolt rather than check with an allen for tightness since if you disturb the bolt you will break the loctite bond.

 

[Mikerb]

It would be normal for bolts specified and bought in bulk for pivot assembly to be pre- treated with loctite. I have never understood how the pre applied ( and dry) loctite is supposed then to form a bond with the thread it screws into since it has already set. It may well be a different formula of loctite but personally if I buy a bolt with pre applied thread lock I remove it and apply my own!!

 

[Zimmerframe]

The focus bolts all have the "pre-treat" loctite on .. they all seemed to be correctly greased too.

Just not tightened during assembly. A couple of the bolts do seem a strange design where the bolt flange stands off the fitting 1mm or so which would encourage crap to get in there.

I think the pre-treat loctite must just turn in the thread and then when you tighten the bolt and the threads compress together, it tears the outer surface of the loctite and presumably activates the reaction. If they've never been tightened, it never sheared the loctite. Mine was like new still. Now they seem "tight" ...

For the other bolts I just checked by hand with "light" force that they were tight or not. The loose ones, one was hanging out the other was finger tight - ie two fingers pressed on it and rotate and it came out.

 

[Clue]

I just checked the bolts you highlighted on my Jam2 6.9 (I have had it for 3 months) and they were loose, thank you for posting. I will buy Loctite and reedoo the bolts.

 

[Mikerb]

one other point to note. Pivot bolts should have no pressure on them when being assembled. That pressure, depending on the design of the rear triangle, can be from the shock or position of the rear wheel. So for example, the forward chain stay pivot will have pressure on it if the bike is in a workstand with the back wheel hanging. Any pressure exerted will result in an incorrect torque.

 

[Zimmerframe]

one other point to note. Pivot bolts should have no pressure on them when being assembled. That pressure, depending on the design of the rear triangle, can be from the shock or position of the rear wheel. So for example, the forward chain stay pivot will have pressure on it if the bike is in a workstand with the back wheel hanging. Any pressure exerted will result in an incorrect torque.

I only assemble bikes, like most professionals, in a zero G environment..

Not really, I thought you just used the centigrade to Fahrenheit conversion for earth gravity torque ? Double and add thirty ?

 

[Mikerb]

I only assemble bikes, like most professionals, in a zero G environment..

Not really, I thought you just used the centigrade to Fahrenheit conversion for earth gravity torque ? Double and add thirty ?

I have no idea what you are smoking !!

 

[Clue]

one other point to note. Pivot bolts should have no pressure on them when being assembled. That pressure, depending on the design of the rear triangle, can be from the shock or position of the rear wheel. So for example, the forward chain stay pivot will have pressure on it if the bike is in a workstand with the back wheel hanging. Any pressure exerted will result in an incorrect torque.

Thanks for relying.
Ok, so I will place the bike in the correct position with the wheels on the ground and then hold it in place using my bike work stand. That way the bike should be stable enough to fasten the bolts without much pressure on the linkage.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

in a zero G environment..

where Zim spends a good percentage of his rides in fact...
just before the environment changes to high G as he hits the floor, again.