Fixed Battery Trend -Why?

[robguide]

The fixed battery thing seems to be trending. I understand it may make things lighter, stiffer, something else?
But it’s so inflexible. No spare battery option for epics. Bike stays in the cold garage to charge. No removing the battery to charge on the 5th floor of your holiday apartment or to store in the warmth in winter. Etc etc.
The losses seem to outweigh the gains for me.
Would really like to buy into the new Bosch system, Bluetooth remote & system controller, but it seems to be impossible at the moment.

 

[Spangoolies]

I think with a lot of companies it’s about being able to fit a larger battery in the frame with the weight where they want it without having to find space for all the bits needed to make it removable like mounting plates with latches/locks.

 

[RustyMojo]

Why not I guess is the answer. There will be pros and cons of each solution depending on your own situation. I hate the fact that the removable battery solution on my rail is so fussy, noisy and unnecessary weight. Plus the fact the down tube is larger than needed to incorporate the removable battery. To the point I have the kit to sack the battery lock function off. However my mate has the same bike and loves the fact he brings his battery into the house to charge.

 

[Stihldog]

In 3 years I’ve removed the battery twice to charge it, but I’ve removed it several times for servicing, cleaning and/or installing etc. 625wh seems to be enough power for me and I’ve never drained my battery (5% lowest).

But I use different packs, for different reasons, on different rides, and making sure that I always have everything I need is my first challenge. Never needed to remove my battery during a ride…yet. I’ve only got 2 keys for battery removal so I better not forget to have the correct one when I head out. Therefore I do the battery-key shuffle when I change packs. I suppose more than 2 keys might be a solution.

I’m not a city commuter and my bikes are stored in my shop/garage/cave. It can be heated and is fairly secure. So the weight reducing Allen key option is looking pretty good. Actually, several of us like the keyless option.

 

[Mikerb]

Not sure why you are restricted....plenty of bikes with Bosch Smart System and removable batteries.
Both my bikes have removable batteries...thankfully neither with one face of the downtube replaced by a length of plastic or secured with flimsy latches or keys. Neither is exposed to dirt or water ingress . I probably remove the battery no more than twice a year.
Every plug/socket type connection has a maximum number of connect/disconnections before there is pin wear and that is made far worse if the 2/3 kg battery is actually being secured at one end by that connection.
Every battery can be removed.....it is just a matter of how easy or hard, or practical it is to do that.
I have no problem either way because my bikes are stored in the house. For those that cannot do that I believe an Emtb is still best stored in a secure, dry and temperate environment for the sake of all the electrical components, not just the battery. So some ingenuity required to decide how to achieve that maybe.

 

[robguide]

Not sure why you are restricted....plenty of bikes with Bosch Smart System and removable batteries.
Both my bikes have removable batteries...thankfully neither with one face of the downtube replaced by a length of plastic or secured with flimsy latches or keys. Neither is exposed to dirt or water ingress . I probably remove the battery no more than twice a year.
Every plug/socket type connection has a maximum number of connect/disconnections before there is pin wear and that is made far worse if the 2/3 kg battery is actually being secured at one end by that connection.
Every battery can be removed.....it is just a matter of how easy or hard, or practical it is to do that.
I have no problem either way because my bikes are stored in the house. For those that cannot do that I believe an Emtb is still best stored in a secure, dry and temperate environment for the sake of all the electrical components, not just the battery. So some ingenuity required to decide how to achieve that maybe.

I was referring to the 2023 Bosch Smart System. This has the Mini Remote and new, top tube mounted system controller, both Bluetooth . So far just Mondraker and Orbea are the only ones who are speccing it.
As for the house thing- not an option for everyone and I’m not comfortable heating a garage just to keep a bike warm.

 

[Mikerb]

I was referring to the 2023 Bosch Smart System. This has the Mini Remote and new, top tube mounted system controller, both Bluetooth . So far just Mondraker and Orbea are the only ones who are speccing it.
As for the house thing- not an option for everyone and I’m not comfortable heating a garage just to keep a bike warm.

Ah OK I thought you were referring to Bosch Smart in general......most use the LED remote.....which I prefer to be honest because I do not like the controllerinserted inside a bike frame tube.
In your situation I would be thinking in terms of an insulated bike container fitted inside your garage perhaps with some mild form of heating when needed. The same could be fabricated attached to the outside of the garage or fixed to a concrete plinth.

 

[JP-NZ]

Some removable batteries are prone to rattling/ill fitting. I'll take a fixed battery every day of the month.

 

[Streddaz]

The fixed battery thing seems to be trending. I understand it may make things lighter, stiffer, something else?
But it’s so inflexible. No spare battery option for epics. Bike stays in the cold garage to charge. No removing the battery to charge on the 5th floor of your holiday apartment or to store in the warmth in winter. Etc etc.
The losses seem to outweigh the gains for me.
Would really like to buy into the new Bosch system, Bluetooth remote & system controller, but it seems to be impossible at the moment.

It's easier to make the frame lighter if they don't have to make and big hole in the frame for a battery to come out. There's also the complexity of the latching mechanism which is another failure point. I've seen a whole lot of bikes with tape or straps around the frame to keep the battery door from falling off.
Like most things there's always a compromise, for myself, my bike is stored in my garage, and it doesn't get all that cold, I haven't had the need for a second battery, and I'll get a range extender if I do.
There's still plenty of bikes with removable batteries, just get one of them, it's really just some of the lightweight models that have gone down the path of a not easily removable battery.

 

[Paulquattro]

Ive kept my bikes in an asgard shed outside for years no particular negative effects and would rather charge them outside than in my house to be honest
So a fixed battery wouldnt be an issue for me but i understand people have different views and requirements .

 

[Kent]

The fixed battery thing seems to be trending. I understand it may make things lighter, stiffer, something else?
But it’s so inflexible. No spare battery option for epics. Bike stays in the cold garage to charge. No removing the battery to charge on the 5th floor of your holiday apartment or to store in the warmth in winter. Etc etc.
The losses seem to outweigh the gains for me.
Would really like to buy into the new Bosch system, Bluetooth remote & system controller, but it seems to be impossible at the moment.

Fixed buttery is not a complete accurate description for the Turbo Levo buttery accommodating compartment design. It is is less flexible than the Trek, Merida or KTM design, but still you can remove / swap the buttery in less tan one minute. I do it on epic journeys when two butteries required to cover a long distance. The advantages of the Turbo Levo design is higher frame rigidity, as well as fewer parts that can go bad on tough terrain.

 

[Ogofmole]

I would stay with a removable battery model, as I keep my bike is secure shed, and the battery in house. It just makes the bike less attracted to thieves if there is no battery with it.

 

[RichT]

I’m new to e-biles but not new to Li-ion batteries. What happens when a non-removable battery fails and requires replacement? The bike becomes a non-e-bike? Junk it? Sell it cheap? Granted these batteries should out-last the bike but I’m sure that’s not always the case and I wouldn’t want to count on it without a very long term warranty. At the very least, a bike with a non-removable battery should have the option of connecting an external “range extender” type battery for use as a back-up.

 

[Mteam]

I’m new to e-biles but not new to Li-ion batteries. What happens when a non-removable battery fails and requires replacement? The bike becomes a non-e-bike? Junk it? Sell it cheap? Granted these batteries should out-last the bike but I’m sure that’s not always the case and I wouldn’t want to count on it without a very long term warranty. At the very least, a bike with a non-removable battery should have the option of connecting an external “range extender” type battery for use as a back-up.

They're all removable in the literal sense, when a battery is referred to as non removable it just means not easily removable,removing it usually involves unbolting the motor and sliding the battery out,whereas a removable battery can be easily removed by releasing a lock,or undoing 1 or 2 bolts.

 

[RichT]

They're all removable in the literal sense, when a battery is referred to as non removable it just means not easily removable,removing it usually involves unbolting the motor and sliding the battery out,whereas a removable battery can be easily removed by releasing a lock,or undoing 1 or 2 bolts.

In that case, I’d say save the weight, reduce the complexity and cost, decrease the number of moving parts, and eliminate one more form of theft. I charge my batteries in the bikes and see very little utility in having them removable for “normal” operations. That said, my bikes live indoors, unlike the horses which we’ve found over the years are best left outside.

 

[Ogofmole]

I’m new to e-biles but not new to Li-ion batteries. What happens when a non-removable battery fails and requires replacement? The bike becomes a non-e-bike? Junk it? Sell it cheap? Granted these batteries should out-last the bike but I’m sure that’s not always the case and I wouldn’t want to count on it without a very long term warranty. At the very least, a bike with a non-removable battery should have the option of connecting an external “range extender” type battery for use as a back-up.

I would of hoped that non-removerble batterys are in fact removerable , but would probably require motor drop or something like that.

 

[Mikerb]

I would of hoped that non-removerble batterys are in fact removerable , but would probably require motor drop or something like that.

Well they have to put them in....so they can obviously be taken out!!

 

[RichT]

Well they have to put them in....so they can obviously be taken out!!

That was my motto in auto-shop: if they put it together, it comes apart…but I was thinking maybe they were integral to the frame and welded in place or something permanent.

 

[michael.kozera]

i like fixed batteries.

my ebike has a 1,600wh internal fixed battery and its more then enough for epics. then if i need a longer ride like 300km's or more, i carry with me my 700wh external AUX battery.

removable batteries are abit silly, as if i made my ebike with a removable battery, i would be lucky to fit 900wh's.

fixed batteries tend to be larger, lighter ( for its capacity). stiffer, and potentially more water proof.

 

[SwampNut]

I remember when people were acting like non removable phone batteries were a problem. Now only junk phones have them.