Fitness and power modes?

[mak]

Its a strange one, i pretty much slog a climb in eco if i can just to keep my fitness up, in fact most of my rides are eco and off just to beat myself up but I have certain section where I turn on tour mode for some mad power fun ( bosch gen 4 kiox display) .

Today I thought id do some unscientific research and wondered if it actually meant anything on one of my climbs?

Nothing drastic just gravel but a bit of a slog in off. Off mode 3-4 mph 144 HB on my fenix 6. Eco 6-7 mph Hb about the same. Tour mode a hell of a lot more fun and felt less of a chore but heart rate 156 at around 12 mph

To be honest its got me a bit complexed , even though it feels less strained am i actually achieving a better work out with more fun in tour ?

 

[steve_sordy]

@mak I understand your puzzlement. There is a difference between not being able to go any quicker because you legs aren't strong enough and not being able to go any quicker because your heart wont beat any faster, or because you just can't get enough air into your lungs.

If the problem is leg strength then a bit of "e" assistance will enable you to go quicker and allow the heart rate to increase.

When my knees started to let me down, I discovered that although I physically couldn't go any quicker, I was hardly sweating! Now I've got myself an emtb, I can get myself into a muck sweat pretty much all the time.

Trouble is that does that mean I'm getting less fit, or more fit?

 

[Mteam]

It is odd, I feel that there could be a psychological effect of getting more out of what you put in in the higher modes which may in turn push you to put more in.

On a whole loop on the ebike my heart rate averages 125-130bpm, where as the same loop on my normal bike will be 135-140 bpm average. The normal bike will be much slower average speed, but feels way harder than how I might expect an extra 10 bpm should feel.

 

[mak]

Very strange guys, I don't no how accurate the bosch calorie data is, I guess I should do my hole 12 mile training loop in eco and off and then do the same route again in tour , and have a look at calories and average heart rate? Its going to be a lot more fun in tour but I cant help but think its going to feel a lot less effort but more fun .

 

[Gary]

Higher heart rate zones are more difficult to sustain for as long a duration as lower heart rate zones.
Riding the same climb using a higher assistance mode should mean you are climbing the hill faster so spending less time in the target zone.

If you're serious about fitness training. Make a fitness training plan and stick to it. If training to specific HR zones you can do that in any assistance mode you like so long as you can remain in the target HR zone. Off road this will depend more on your available terrain than anything.
Consistency is why traditionally so many athletes use roadbikes on roads for fitness training rather than using an mtb off road. An Ebike can close that gap and give back some consistency to keep in within your training zones.

 

[Pdoz]

When you ride a decent down hill trail without pedalling, it's hard work. Ride it faster, and you get more of a work out. Tossing a bike around is hard work. MUCH more exercise than sitting on a prostate punisher spinning the cranks.

So if you want a decent workout, put the emtb into full assist and get the whole body working

I use eco uphill when I need to catch my breath.

 

[flash]

If only fitness were as simple as having a high heart rate.. After all you can get your heart rate up watching a scary movie or those ones on the internet.

Slogging up hills might be good for your legs and doing little for your aerobic capacity. Less effort on your legs might mean a better aerobic fitness zone. Both can be good for you (but not always) but they're different. Spinning up a hill at super high cadence is also different to grinding up the same hill at low RPMs. And neither is doing anything for you upper body strength or core strength.

If you're training to get fit you really need to specify what type of fitness and have a program that does that. Road cyclists and rugby players don't do the same program. If it's just wanting to push the body in a non goal orientated way then gentle progression with a lot of variety is probably best. Without a plan, overdoing it can lead to serious long term injuries. Slow and steady. Ride more. Mix it up. Feel good.

Gordon

 

[steve_sordy]

@mak and quoting @flash
.................... Slow and steady. Ride more. Mix it up. Feel good....

And stop riding your emtb without any "e".

 

[rod9301]

My belief is that you mountain bike to get in better aerobic shape, other than just being fun

For leg strength, lift weights.

 

[mak]

@mak and quoting @flash
.................... Slow and steady. Ride more. Mix it up. Feel good....

And stop riding your emtb without any "e".

I cant help myself lol.

 

[maynard]

If u want a better workout. Try turning the motor off . Its fun . It also reminds you while you bought an ebike to begin with . More fun with a motor . And also reminds you that those muscles in ur legs actually are good for shit . Cos ur a cyclist. And cyclists are hot . I'm also a chef . So I'm double hot . Cos chefs r hot . That's what hot chick's told me . So yeah . Doooo it .

 

[JoeBlow]

I'm lucky enough to have an EMTB and an exercise bike. If my goal was fitness I would use the exercise bike, it's far more convenient and quicker than going out for a bike ride of any description. My EMTB is for having fun. It is of course not that black and white but it's a good idea to know what you want and why you want it.

Fitness is a strange thing. IMO any training should be as close as possible to replicating what you are training for. Many years ago I took a novice rock climbing near the summit of Snowdon, a relatively long and arduous walk with a heavy pack. Much to my surprise my friend who was an obsessive marathon runner had difficulty keeping up with me on the walk in and I was carrying most of the gear. I have never seriously trained for anything preferring instead to simply get the "mileage" in on the chosen activity. My point is that fitness in one activity does not necessarily translate into another but what surprised me was that aerobically, on paper at least, he should have been faster than me.

Al

 

[Gary]

Tossing a bike around is hard work. MUCH more exercise than sitting on a prostate punisher spinning the cranks.

Not MOAR exercise than actually pedalling an unassisted bike up a decent sized hill it isn't. Considerably LESS in fact. its just that descending fluidly over technical terain engages more muscle groups than seated pedalling. But overall 30mins of climbing uses way more energy than is required to descend back down the same height elevation.
Oh.. And technique and skill massively comes into how much energy is actually used when descending or throwing a bike around. Whether an Eeb or proper mtb
Watch a POV run of someone like Minnaar or Gee at Fort William. They'll be able to put in a 4min30 time while casually chatting about the track and throwing shapes on the huge motorway jumps and won't even be out of breath at the finish while most punters can barely string a full run together in under 15minutes and by the bottom many are so fucked they don't even want to get back on the gondola for another run.

 

[Pdoz]

But overall 30mins of climbing uses way more energy than is required to descend back down the same height elevation.
Oh.. And technique and skill massively comes into how much energy is actually used when descending or throwing a bike around. Whether an Eeb or proper mtb
Watch a POV run of someone like Minnaar or Gee at Fort William. They'll be able to put in a 4min30 time while casually chatting about the track and throwing shapes on the huge motorway jumps and won't even be out of breath at the finish while most punters can barely string a full run together in under 15minutes and by the bottom many are so fucked they don't even want to get back on the gondola for another run.

Gary, compare 30 minutes of climbing with 30 mins of descending - riding as fast as your skill permits.

Think desk jockey who has an hour away from the demands of life, spent at the 25 k assist barrier or above , vs 2/3 of that time spinning cranks up hill ( so 25 k in full assist vs 15 k in eco for this lump of lard) .

 

[Gary]

By "prostate punisher" I assumed you meant a proper bike. Did you in actual fact mean an ebike? and if so, what's punishing about sitting on an Ebike lightly spinning cranks with assistance doing most of the work?

Gary, compare 30 minutes of climbing with 30 mins of descending - riding as fast as your skill permits.

to get 30 minutes of decending on an Ebike riding as fast as your skill permits you're either

1. riding pretty mellow descents
2. using a massive battery or very low assistance for the climbs
3. a shit descender

30 minutes of descending for me would mean somewhere in the region of 9-10,000ft in elevation

Think desk jockey who has an hour away from the demands of life, spent at the 25 k assist barrier or above , vs 2/3 of that time spinning cranks up hill ( so 25 k in full assist vs 15 k in eco for this lump of lard) .

I'll be honest, I don't entirely understand WTF you're even on about now.

FWIW on any given mtb ride my max HR is always recorded while descending (proper DH/Enduro trails) not climbing. This is true whether I'm riding normal bikes or Eebs. In the 30odd years I've been riding there's absolutely no ride I've ever done where I could take my Ebike and manage to spend an equal amount of time climbing as descending even if all the climbing was done in boost at the 15mph limit.
I suppose in theory you could maybe find a long mellow bike park type trail with a very direct fireroad from the finish to the start and lap it. but what Desk Jockey has something like that outside their office window?

 

[Pdoz]

Here you go, Gary, the mythical ride where the mythical average punter spends equal time climbing and descending.

Screen shots from trailforks, blores hill in Victoria , Australia - up switchback , down wednesday . Both average 6 mins for accoustics, and for what it's worth this is the loop where I decided eco is easier than full assistance - because an hour of repeated runs going up switchback at 25 kph is bloody hard compared to grinding away at the cranks on an acoustic at 7 kph .

Yes, it's tiny and just an intermediate run. But it's close to this desk jockey

 

[propersins]

There is no golden standard of workout results, and you should now be concerned about what others say.
There is no single way for everyone because each person has to find their way. It would help if you chose the place where you feel comfortable and train as much as you can.
The only model that I use is Paradigm Peptides. This stuff makes my training sessions less senseless and helps me gain more and more. This stuff is better than protein, and I recommend it to anyone I know. All my friends take proteins, and I can see how it isn't easy for them since they are like junkies.

 

[RipGroove]

Its a strange one, i pretty much slog a climb in eco if i can just to keep my fitness up, in fact most of my rides are eco and off just to beat myself up but I have certain section where I turn on tour mode for some mad power fun ( bosch gen 4 kiox display) .

Today I thought id do some unscientific research and wondered if it actually meant anything on one of my climbs?

Nothing drastic just gravel but a bit of a slog in off. Off mode 3-4 mph 144 HB on my fenix 6. Eco 6-7 mph Hb about the same. Tour mode a hell of a lot more fun and felt less of a chore but heart rate 156 at around 12 mph

To be honest its got me a bit complexed , even though it feels less strained am i actually achieving a better work out with more fun in tour ?

From what I've learned riding my emtb is that to utilize the higher powered modes you need to have a faster cadence which seems to get my heart rate up and when in ECO it's more about a lower cadence and more leg muscle which gives me a lower heart rate. If I stick it in Turbo and pedal like mad up a steep climb that really raises my heart rate into higher zones and leaves me breathless and of course it's way more fun anyway. Climbing in ECO just fatigues my muscles, tires me out and doesn't get the heart rate into any useful zones.