First experience - Whyte E160 S

[Mr President]

Hi All

Two weeks ago I purchased a Whyte E160 S. I thought it might be useful for the community and myself to state my reasoning for the purchase and discuss the sizing decision. I'll follow up late with early experiences of an E-MTB in general and the Whyte in particular.
Here I'll state why I went for the Whyte.
Choosing:
Buying an E-MTB was a huge leap for me. I have ridden MTBs badly for decades. Enjoy building and maintaining them. I usually buy cheap second hand bikes and resolutely repair, maintain and upgrade. Not necessarily a wise strategy in the long term, but that is who I am. At 59 years old and an rotund 95Kg I cannot keep up with most of my riding buddies or my sons, so E-bikes have been in the corner of my eye for some time. I guess like a lot of people I feared their high price and also the impact on my already compromised fitness. Then on 1 Jan 2020 I discovered I had a blood clot in my leg, few months later I was made redundant and de-facto retired. I suddenly had some money and a lot more time. The E-bike discussion took on a new momentum.
the ideal bike for me seemed to be the Spesh Turbo SL - what a great idea for new entrants and I started studying in earnest. What I deduced after sooooo many reviews, forums and comments was that it is not great value. A brilliant idea, but typical MTB industry where you will pay more for less. I fully understand why people make the choice, but when I am already spending 10 x my usual budget it better be great VFM which is not the case for the SL IMHO.
Next the YT Decoy 29er. This was going to deliver the full package a better price. The doubt of course was the support. Have to say that YT responded very well to my enquiries, but I still had images of couriers and boxes ya de ya in the case of any issues.
Then I realised that a new MTB only shop was opening in my town (Ace Monmouth) and that they will sell Whyte bikes amongst others, which also happen to be available for hire at Pedal a Bikeaway in the Forest of Dean. They haven't opened yet, but one of the owners also has an interest in Ace in Guildford. After confirming that Ace in Monmouth would cover warranty issues for any purchase via the Guildford store my options seemed to be narrowing - phew.
I hired a Medium E150 from PABA and had a great day out in the FOD. All set to place an order I was still a bit concerned over sizing. At 175cm I am at the top end of the M sizing. The M bike felt great on the trails, but when I sat on a Large in the car park afterwards it just felt right. I spoke with Toby at Guildford Ace who understood my thinking but still recommended the M as the best bike on the trail for my size. I initially agreed, but couldn't get past that car park feeling and thought I was crazy not to try the L. Luckily the other partners in Ace Monmouth have an interest in PABA in the Forest, so let me take a L out for a spin one evening free of charge. I confirmed my feeling that the Large was for me. The 'in rather than on' the bike seemed a very apt statement. I am right at the limit for stand-over clearance with e dropper not quite able to comfortably reach full extension. The L was a bit less playful of course, but I looked back to recent crashes and though that the more planted feel of the L would save me from myself on the steep stuff. These bikes are also massively heavy. The stability is undeniable, but I still managed to manual off my favourite drops and take off on ladders and stumps, not like an acoustic bike exactly, but considering the uplift benefits of the EMTB it is a very acceptable compromise.
Upshot I ordered a size L E-160 S. It is the lower spec, but still cost more than 5K. For a BIKE! Some sleepless nights in the interim, but the guys at Ace got the bike to me as per promised schedule and did a good initial set-up. Not bad for a shop that isn't even open yet!
I'll talk about my reasons for going with the lower spec model and also my initial experiences of my first 75 miles E-biking and of the Whyte in future posts on this thread.
I'll also explain the Mr President pseudonym, although the photo might be sufficient

 

[MrSpoon]

Well, I am following this thread with great interest! I am currently struggling with the choice of an online purchase of a haibike allmtn 7 (with discount) vs a Whyte e160s but available from a store 100m from my house. They come out at the same cost, give or take. Something I’m my mind keeps me coming back to the Whyte so I’d love to hear your thinking on it. Also, I’d really like to hear your opinion on the rear shock; for me on paper it’s the weekend component.

 

[Winger]

We went through similar just before lock down, we had two decent mountain bikes, but I spent way too much time waiting for my other half to catch up..., having seen Shimano dethroned as the motor to have from mid 19 to the start of 20, it was either Brose or Bosch, my wife plumped for a Whyte 150s, as we went out the door guy says something to my wife....I ask...she says ‘Don’t let your husband ride it he’ll be back in a week’..... it was 3 days.

I went Turbo Levo, is it a better bike??? It’s certainly lighter that is for sure, and I do prefer the bigger wheels but after that everything is up for debate....

 

[Mikerb]

I cannot comment on the E160...my Whyte is the E 180 RS but I have to believe there are some constants across their range that give them their character. Firstly, mentioned above is the feeling of riding in rather than on the bike and I agree with that. I also have a Levo Comp and I feel I have partly at least achieved something similar with that with both fork and cockpit changes...but not completely. That feeling is complemented by the low centre of gravity and together they translate into a bike you can lean from side to side easily in fast twisty downhill sections. It is far more throwaround in that respect than my Levo. Thirdly Whyte have implemented a similar battery installation to the Levo..albeit situated lower in the downtube than the Levo. This avoids what to me seems the flimsy installation most Bosch Gen4 bikes have consisting a plastic plate on the front of the downtube and some sort of lock/key release system. OK you pay the penalty of not being a ble to remove the battery as easilly but that does not concern me since on both the Whyte and Levo I rarely remove the battery and charge the bike via the charging port ( which incidentally stands a far better chance than most other Bosch Gen4 charging port locations/designs to withstand the mud and rain of a British winter). I also like the fact that the Whyte is ally not carbon...which to me is a silly option for a mountain bike!

 

[Mr President]

Well, I am following this thread with great interest! I am currently struggling with the choice of an online purchase of a haibike allmtn 7 (with discount) vs a Whyte e160s but available from a store 100m from my house. They come out at the same cost, give or take. Something I’m my mind keeps me coming back to the Whyte so I’d love to hear your thinking on it. Also, I’d really like to hear your opinion on the rear shock; for me on paper it’s the weekend component.

Few more thoughts on the E 160 S after a few rides:
Firstly a quick note on the Large size (again) - despite only being 175cm tall. As mentioned in the earlier thread I liked the car park feel of the large. I realise that to many that is a bit of a nonsense as it is how it rides on the trails that counts. However, I have a limited skill range on the trails and whether I get to deploy them in anger largely depends on my levels of confidence on the day. Riding out of the car park feeling in a good position on the bike helps with that confidence. This would be a moot point to better more confident riders. However, the Large has proven agile on the tight twisty sections and stable on rock garden descents. I can also enjoy drops and stumps - it doesn't sail off them like my acoustic bikes and has a tendancy to drop the rear end first, but still a very enjoyable ride. If I was trying to jump doubles the Medium might have been a better option. I am happy with my choice
Why did I chose the 160 s over the 160 RS?
Well 650 quid, for one thing.
I prefer the presidential orange to the moss green.
I am running a Pike on an acoustic bike that works well and has changed internals for different travel options - I can do the same with the Zebb. From initial riding it may be that the Zebb lacks the initial sensitivity of the Fox 38 on the RS, but it is working well on the bigger hits. I have no plans to change the travel yet. 160mm is fine for my riding in the Forest of Dean.
The Guide RE brakes are supposedly out-gunned by the Codes on the RS, but I haven't really felt a difference compared to the RS that I demoed. The Guides are working well, especially with the big 220 rotor.
Then we come to the shock. I was warned that this could be a weak point in the spec. The S coming with RS Deluxe Select and the RS with Fox Float perf. In fact the person who said it was a weak point felt that was true for both shocks. I do notice the difference compared to the RS Super Deluxe on my acoustic bike which has a piggy back reservoir, but I am not in a rush to change things. Not sure if a piggy back would permit a water bottle for one thing (more on that later). I have found the shock a bit 'wallowy' on corrugations. I must confess I am not an expert on suspension, but things seem well under control in rock gardens and landings, which is my main concern. I have noticed chatter from front and back on very rooty sections (eg Free Miners red at FoD), but I can play with pressure, tokens and rebound for some time before I make any decisions on changing anything. I'm sure there are better shocks out there and I have 650 quid in my pocket to go and get a coil shock if I feel the need.
I think the bikes geometry, suspension design and low centre of gravity far out weigh any weakness coming form the shock. I am not a great rider, as I have stated previously, but I am definitely going quicker on steep tech sections with the Whyte than on anything else I have ridden. Of course my experience is limited, especially around Ebikes, but so far I am happy with my choice, if still somewhat shocked that I have dropped 5K on a BIKE!
So that I hope explains why I chose the lower specced version. I'll share my practical riding experiences later.

 

[Mikerb]

maybe try some additional low speed compression on the shock. You mention the bike tends to land rear wheel first. It could be you are used to a slightly more forward position in the cockpit so probably you just need to adjust slightly for the Whyte to ensure you are more central when you get air.

 

[highpeakrider]

On the Zebs try 3 tokens and lower the pressure a little, adjust rebound to suit, im running about 15lbs in the front tire.

 

[Mr President]

maybe try some additional low speed compression on the shock. You mention the bike tends to land rear wheel first. It could be you are used to a slightly more forward position in the cockpit so probably you just need to adjust slightly for the Whyte to ensure you are more central when you get air.

thanks Mikerb. Must admit that I spent so many years of my life trying to get the front end up, it has come as a shock to be landing rear first. I will try staying a little more forward in the taske-off. The version of the Zebb fork I have doesn't come with low speed compression adjustment other than what comes from adding/removing tokens and changing the air pressure. I think this is a weakness in the spec for people who really know what they are doing and they should go with the Fox 38 on the RS version. However, I suspect the majority of us may not be perceptive enough to miss some of the finer adjustments. I'll try some fettling in any case.

 

[Mr President]

On the Zebs try 3 tokens and lower the pressure a little, adjust rebound to suit, im running about 15lbs in the front tire.

thanks highpeakrider. I shall take a look at that and do some back to back runs - when the rain stops!

 

[Mr President]

Final newbie post on the early experience of EMTB and the Whyte E160 S:
Man the E160 is a leviathan. Weighing in at 25Kg you really feel it when manhandling and transporting. I don't notice the weight when riding, but loading, washing, gating, maintaining it is a lump. I use tow bar mounted racks which are perfect if they are long enough for the huge wheelbase, although it takes some working out where to clamp the frame and you definitely need a back-up strap. If you want to use a roof rack you'd need to be the incredible Hulk on a bad day. Same for putting in the boot of the car without dismantling.
I saw in another thread someone complaining that ECO mode on the Bosch was doing nothing. I can say that without ECO mode as a minimum you are going nowhere on the E160, so it must do something. I'd say ECO makes it a sprightly acoustic bike. I have an extremely fit riding buddy who eschews any assistance as the Devil's work and on a fair climb I spin next to him in Turbo. It has been good to discover that assistance rewards spinning as that has always been my pedalling style.
On the 625 wh battery capacity; I came close to the limit after 45km of technical riding including 1250m ascent. I'd say in those conditions and with my fitness level and weight (95Kg in my very heavy pants), 50km distance and 1500m ascent would seem to be the max range. Others report longer range but they are either on easier terrain or are lighter and fitter than myself. I am happy with that in any case and now very glad I didn't go for a bike with a smaller battery. I still need to make sure that I am close to home/car well before running out of juice, because as stated above you are going nowhere sans motor.
I can't compare Ebike performance with others, as I haven't ridden anything else really. The Bosch on Whyte works great for me - hard to imagine it could be better, but I am sure there are other opinions out there.
Zero reliability problems in the first 80 miles of heavy riding. Going into Ace in the coming days for the initial check over.
As alluded to in a previous post - the frame is very limited for mounting of a water bottle. I ordered a Leyzyne side mounting cage and a Wiggle Prime 500ml bottle which fits perfectly in the Large. Also a small Lezyne tool holder for days when I am using a back back for the water.
I knew that chain lubrication was a big deal for Ebikes. Normally I like nothing better than cleaning and lubing my bikes, but it is a big pain with the Whyte and probably most Ebikes. The chain doesn't move when you pedal backwards! The Whyte also does not fit in my current workstand which is a big pain. I am currently looking at my options. Open to suggestions.
One of my big worries when switching to an Ebike was fitness dropping. I am already challenged on that side of things despite riding 3 times a week. I have so far kept the acoustic bikes going for gravel and road, but the Ebike is addictive and I do fear my discipline will lapse. You do get a workout of sorts with an Ebike and could easily make it much more of a challenge, but the truth is that the assistance makes me lazy. I was tired at the end of the 45km, but in a very different way to acoustic. More isometric workout than aerobic. Maybe no bad thing, but I will have to mix it up I think.
I am enjoying EMTB and loving the E160. I fully expect my limited skills to improve by being able to session technical sections. I especially enjoyed riding in Forest of Dean last week and being able to assuage my curiosity about where trails lead or checking out a new section without any pain. I no longer have to wonder where that path leads and when someone says - you should go over there and check the work they've done on that section - I do exactly that. No hesitation.
The E160 is suiting my riding. I have not sacrificed any technical ability for the increase in weight. The planted geometry is also feeding me with confidence. Going to start playing with the suspension set-up in the coming weeks, but only for fun. I have no immediate need to change anything.
So far, so very good.

 

[Mteam]

I dont have a whyte, but have an orbea with the same motor/battery, Turbo and Emtb modes really do chew through the battery very fast, you'll get substantially more range and altitude by keeping it in tour on the uphills , eco on the flat/downs, without losing much speed or putting in that much more effort .

If I use emtb exclusively It'll do about 4000feet/1200m of climbing, whereas if I use tour exclusively it'll do about 6000 feet/1800m, and even more with eco.

I dont actually find it that bad to pedal with the motor off entirely, I do sometimes do a couple of hills with it off entirely if I'm with people on normal bikes. It feels like riding through treacle to accelerate it up to speed, but once you're at a steady 5mph I find you can hold that speed ok - a high cadence/very low gear helps

 

[Mr President]

I dont have a whyte, but have an orbea with the same motor/battery, Turbo and Emtb modes really do chew through the battery very fast, you'll get substantially more range and altitude by keeping it in tour on the uphills , eco on the flat/downs, without losing much speed or putting in that much more effort .

If I use emtb exclusively It'll do about 4000feet/1200m of climbing, whereas if I use tour exclusively it'll do about 6000 feet/1800m, and even more with eco.

I dont actually find it that bad to pedal with the motor off entirely, I do sometimes do a couple of hills with it off entirely if I'm with people on normal bikes. It feels like riding through treacle to accelerate it up to speed, but once you're at a steady 5mph I find you can hold that speed ok - a high cadence/very low gear helps

Hi Mteam
It was a typo in fact. I meant to say keeping up with my buddy easily in Tour mode not Turbo. Man if he could pedal uphill at Turbo speed he would be a world champion.
My 1250 m climbing was in majority Tour mode. I did one blast in EMTB (couldn't resist) and as you say that really ripped though the capacity. I was also left waiting 10min at the top of the hill for my buddy - so that was a complete waste!
Could be that you are stronger than me (v likely) or that the combined weight is less (extremely likely!). I can barley imagine going on the flat with the motor off. Maybe I need to challenge myself a bit more. Still on the novelty of the assisted riding, so makes me even more reluctant to suffer. Maybe I'll try when I'm out with less fit acousticeers, but there aren't many of those!

 

[Mikerb]

The whole point of the emtb mode is that the complete support capability of the motor is available depending how much torque you apply on the cranks. If you keep a high cadence you will not be maxing out on power or using a lot of battery. Most Bosch motor users I talk to use emtb mode for virtually everything off road....trail just for tarmac.
I found the type of riding I do changed when I changed from acoustic to emtb. I am not concerned with distance.My focus is steep tech climbs and fast tech descents. On both my heart rate and physical effort exceed what I experienced riding an analogue bike so maintaining fitness is not an issue.

 

[Mr President]

The whole point of the emtb mode is that the complete support capability of the motor is available depending how much torque you apply on the cranks. If you keep a high cadence you will not be maxing out on power or using a lot of battery. Most Bosch motor users I talk to use emtb mode for virtually everything off road....trail just for tarmac.
I found the type of riding I do changed when I changed from acoustic to emtb. I am not concerned with distance.My focus is steep tech climbs and fast tech descents. On both my heart rate and physical effort exceed what I experienced riding an analogue bike so maintaining fitness is not an issue.

Thanks Mikerb, I will look into the EMTB mode more in the coming rides. I knew there was something particular about it, but hadn't investigated what it actually was. Could I ask how you approach the descents - ie are you still in EMTB? I have actually been dialling back assistance on technical sections to avoid getting out of control - same on switch-backs when ascending. Maybe I am not taking the right approach.
I can see this is a different sport. I am in transition at the moment. Probably not getting the most out of it but really enjoying the novelty. Need to get some of my mates on Ebikes. I have a cunning plan to let them borrow mine and get them addicted that way - gateway drug approach.

 

[Mteam]

The whole point of the emtb mode is that the complete support capability of the motor is available depending how much torque you apply on the cranks. If you keep a high cadence you will not be maxing out on power or using a lot of battery. Most Bosch motor users I talk to use emtb mode for virtually everything off road....trail just for tarmac.
I found the type of riding I do changed when I changed from acoustic to emtb. I am not concerned with distance.My focus is steep tech climbs and fast tech descents. On both my heart rate and physical effort exceed what I experienced riding an analogue bike so maintaining fitness is not an issue.

I find emtb mode is too keen to give you turbo levels of assistance and chews through the battery as a result, its fun though, and if you know you're not going to run out of battery on the ride you're planning to do, you may as well use emtb mode.

But if you know you're going to be pushing the range of the battery in emtb mode, then using tour can give a significant increase in range for (in my opinion) not a huge decrease in speed or increase in effort.

However some hills do just require turbo all the way.!

 

[JoeBlow]

I used to change modes quite a lot and if I was on a longer ride where I was conscious of limited battery power I would continue to do so but more recently and with my new bike I find myself engaging EMTB mode and just leaving it. I see you live in Monmouth. I ride mostly at FOD so if you would like to meet up to compare notes (modes) I would be happy to do so. Indeed I will most likely be there tomorrow as the weather looks OK.

Al

 

[Mikerb]

.....and that is the point...you do not need to switch to turbo...just pedal harder and in emtb you access full power. You can also emulate tour by riding in a much lower gear. I also have a Levo and I mostly use trail mode offroad but have to switch for very short periods into turbo ...emtb enables all modes just depending on how much effort through the pedals. I am not sure how the latest 85nm update changed the original power modes. Originally it worked like this:-
Max power 340%
Turbo 340%
Tour 140%
ECO 60%
EMTB 140-340%

 

[Mikerb]

.....and that is the point...you do not need to switch to turbo...just pedal harder and in emtb you access full power. You can also emulate tour by riding in a much lower gear. I also have a Levo and I mostly use trail mode offroad but have to switch for very short periods into turbo ...emtb enables all modes just depending on how much effort through the pedals. I am not sure how the latest 85nm update changed the original power modes. Originally it worked like this:-
Max power 340%
Turbo 340%
Tour 140%
ECO 60%
EMTB 140-340%

....just checked...the a bove figures have not changed with the update.

In Turbo the full 85nm is delivered
In EMTB the max is 75nm
Tour 50nm
ECO 40nm

I leave EMTB even downhill which in my case rarely requires any pedal input unless I overcook a section and have to stop or near stop...EMTB gets you going again with little delay. In a tech section up or down if you have a power mode selected you can work the motor against a dragging brake to get a combination of power and control. The same applies for example just doing a simple u turn of a trail or fireroad. If you do not drag a brake you will likely tuck the front wheel as you steer tight.

 

[Mr President]

I used to change modes quite a lot and if I was on a longer ride where I was conscious of limited battery power I would continue to do so but more recently and with my new bike I find myself engaging EMTB mode and just leaving it. I see you live in Monmouth. I ride mostly at FOD so if you would like to meet up to compare notes (modes) I would be happy to do so. Indeed I will most likely be there tomorrow as the weather looks OK.

Al

I used to change modes quite a lot and if I was on a longer ride where I was conscious of limited battery power I would continue to do so but more recently and with my new bike I find myself engaging EMTB mode and just leaving it. I see you live in Monmouth. I ride mostly at FOD so if you would like to meet up to compare notes (modes) I would be happy to do so. Indeed I will most likely be there tomorrow as the weather looks OK.

Al

Thanks JoeBlow
I have sent you a chat message about possibility to meet up.

 

[Mr President]

....just checked...the a bove figures have not changed with the update.

In Turbo the full 85nm is delivered
In EMTB the max is 75nm
Tour 50nm
ECO 40nm

I leave EMTB even downhill which in my case rarely requires any pedal input unless I overcook a section and have to stop or near stop...EMTB gets you going again with little delay. In a tech section up or down if you have a power mode selected you can work the motor against a dragging brake to get a combination of power and control. The same applies for example just doing a simple u turn of a trail or fireroad. If you do not drag a brake you will likely tuck the front wheel as you steer tight.

Thanks Mikerb
Going to try using the greater flexibility of the EMTB setting tomorrow. Will have to think about the dragging brake a bit. Sounds like patting your head whilst rubbing your tummy. Will require some practice.

 

[Mr President]

I used to change modes quite a lot and if I was on a longer ride where I was conscious of limited battery power I would continue to do so but more recently and with my new bike I find myself engaging EMTB mode and just leaving it. I see you live in Monmouth. I ride mostly at FOD so if you would like to meet up to compare notes (modes) I would be happy to do so. Indeed I will most likely be there tomorrow as the weather looks OK.

Al

Thanks to JoeBlow, Mikerb and Mteam. I did 56km yesterday with 11m climbing. All of the technical riding in EMTB mode and it was a major improvement on my ride. Didn't lose time and concentration on swapping modes at challenging points of the trail. Always had the power I needed when necessary. And didn't run out of juice.

 

[Mr President]

In a another thread I had chimed in on the saddle for the E160. Butt wise it was fine, but weirdly I did occasionally feel I'd been tapped in the testicles with a toffee hammer. I have subsequently realised this is a side-effect of going for the size L frame when I am 175 cm 5 ft 9in. The seatpost is as low as possible and I now recognise that the saddle at max extension is slightly too high for my frame. As well as the occasional toffee hammering I got a slight pain on the inside of one knee. These were both signs that I was beyond my natural limit. Since I have started using just less than full extension on the seatpost all seems well with both knee and nuts. If someone of my height were to decide to take the Large size they might consider going for the shorter travel seatpost.
Does anyone know if the Whyte/JD post has any adjustment on the travel? I don't see anything in the manual. It's not a big deal I can just run it slightly below full extension for now.

 

[Jamze]

Does anyone know if the Whyte/JD post has any adjustment on the travel? I don't see anything in the manual. It's not a big deal I can just run it slightly below full extension for now.

See here...

Very simple, just drop the post halfway, undo the collar, pull up and rotate the white bit so the arrow points at the amount of travel you want (140-170 adjustment on a large like ours). The collar only needs to be hand-tight. No need for a tool.

 

[MrSpoon]

See here...

Very simple, just undo the collar, pull up and rotate the white bit so the arrow points at the amount of travel you want (140-170 adjustment on a large like ours).

If I could like your post twice, I would. Thanks for that.

 

[Sidepod]

On the topic of eMTB mode, it does make sense from an engineering perspective but for me (Flyon, so it's not a option anyway) it's all part of the riding experience/skill. On tight twisty single track climbs I quite like the involvement of getting the correct cog/power setting for whatever the trail throws at you. I guess it's like a manual/dsg gearbox in a car. Marmite.

 

[Jamze]

On the topic of eMTB mode, it does make sense from an engineering perspective but for me (Flyon, so it's not a option anyway) it's all part of the riding experience/skill. On tight twisty single track climbs I quite like the involvement of getting the correct cog/power setting for whatever the trail throws at you. I guess it's like a manual/dsg gearbox in a car. Marmite.

Kind of. You still have a manual gearbox though. So more like having a manual car with normal/sport/track settings that it auto-selects. It's the increased motor run-on I'm finding most useful TBH. I use it loads with all these deep ruts about.

 

[Mr President]

See here...

Very simple, just undo the collar, pull up and rotate the white bit so the arrow points at the amount of travel you want (140-170 adjustment on a large like ours). The collar only needs to be hand-tight. No need for a tool.

awesometastic. thanks. I'm going to give that a go toute de suite.

 

[steve_sordy]

See here...

Very simple, just drop the post halfway, undo the collar, pull up and rotate the white bit so the arrow points at the amount of travel you want (140-170 adjustment on a large like ours). The collar only needs to be hand-tight. No need for a tool.

WOW! That is what I call an innovation!
The problem of a post being too tall at max insertion and fully extended is one I suffered with on a YT Capra. Yes, you can drop the post a bit until you are comfy, but as soon as you use it you have the same problem all over again. Fortunately, my post failed under warranty and I had it replaced with a shorter travel version.
It shows how lacking in imagination I am that I never ever thought of an adjustable travel dropper as a solution (I mean, they are already adjustable, so an adjustable adjustable dropper is well outside my box).

I hope that Salsa haven't patented it (fat chance!), because all droppers should come like that one.

 

[Jamze]

WOW! That is what I call an innovation!
The problem of a post being too tall at max insertion and fully extended is one I suffered with on a YT Capra. Yes, you can drop the post a bit until you are comfy, but as soon as you use it you have the same problem all over again. Fortunately, my post failed under warranty and I had it replaced with a shorter travel version.
It shows how lacking in imagination I am that I never ever thought of an adjustable travel dropper as a solution (I mean, they are already adjustable, so and adjustable adjustable dropper is well outside my box).

I hope that Salsa haven't patented it (fat chance!), because all droppers should come like that one.

Good, init? PNW do a version too so they're generally available. Not sure what the link is to Salsa TBH. Tempted by a 200mm Rainier.

PNW version

 

[Mr President]

Good, init? PNW do a version too so they're generally available. Not sure what the link is to Salsa TBH. Tempted by a 200mm Rainier.

PNW version

worked a treat. after a false start where I forgot to lower the seatpost first.