FIM EXBike Race at Italy MXGP - Not good for EMTBs

[wrayb]

If you haven't seen the FIM EXBike race at the MXGP in Italy...google it...BEWARE it is BAD. First of all...not a good idea to race pedal assist bikes designed for mountain biking on a motocross track designed for the most powerful MX bikes in the world!!! Who came up with this idea??? If they want to race on a MXGP track then bring out the Electric MX bikes! I would love to see what the top (real motorcycles) could do on this track (with top MX riders). I believe they could rival the gas powered bikes (maybe not...but let them race and we will see).

This was just a terrible idea to promote Emtbs. Made them look super slow and boring.

And the guy who "won"...on a Qulbix bike???? If this bike was legal then everyone else showed up with a knife to a gun fight!!!

Please weight in and enlighten me because I can't find anybody posting anything on this and it seems too crazy bad to ignore.

 

[CjP]

I agree it was shocking to watch but I thought it does wonders for all the losers who think EMTBs are anything like a motorbike.
I kinda got the feeling that was it’s intended purpose. I mean surely no one could think that was exciting to watch.

 

[Rusty]

That was a total joke.

Then again, MXGP has been a joke since Luongo took control.

 

[CjP]

It was pretty dismal.
How happy was that chick. Piss funny!

 

[wrayb]

I think it really shows how Emtbs are still very misunderstood. Here in the US I had to become a member of the American Motorcycle Association (AMA) to race my Emtb in the GNCC series. I thought the Europeans would have done better but they were WORSE. At least the GNCC races are on single track not a full on motocross track.

Even the Specialized commercials are baffling. If they knew anything about their most fruitful potential customer base they would understand their advertising should be about how Emtbs open up the possibility of so many trails that pedal bikes can't ride...how physically demanding they are...not how EASY they make riding a mountain bike uphill!

They should emphasize all the ways you can use the bike (I frequently turn my assist off to get a better workout than I would on my 23 pound XC bike). Bottom line, my Levo is a heavy training tool, a more plush and super handling XC bike (on the Eco mode), a super fast technically challenging XC bike on assist 2 or 3, an excellent enduro bike, a downhill bike (with built in shuttle), and even a nice commuter bike if I so wish.

It is not a motorcycle.. MotoGP 70 foot triple jumping roost machine.

The biggest obstacle to getting more riders on Emtbs in the US is...having a place to ride an Emtb! Until we have trail access (for Federal trails), acceptance from state and local trail owners (also for trail access) or Emtb purpose built trails people are reluctant to spend thousands of dollars on an Emtb. In fact I may start a new thread on what I see as a possible solution...either an Emtb wing of IMBA or a new E-IMBA. Anyone know of such an initiative?

 

[wrayb]

And...the biggest reason I started this thread is about Emtb RACING. This is a whole new ballgame. This race was a great example of what I have been wondering. The fairness issue of Emtb racing. The interpretation and the application of RULES. I have been involved with 4 wheel racing in the past and the rampant CHEATING is unbelievable! When you realize you don't have the driving talent then the competition seems to be how much can you cheat before getting caught. The electric motors are ripe for this! Half the posts on this site are already how to cheat the systems imposed for these bikes!

Did the FIM really award first place to the rider on the 5000watt motorcycle? A blind man could see that bike was clearly NOT on the same playing field as the rest of the bikes in that race. Come on man! WTF?

Is there really a future for Emtb racing? I hope so but certainly a list of rules with reliably methods for implementing them must be developed. Otherwise, Emtb racers will quickly be soured on racing when they get beat by less fit and less talented riders who are cheating the rules on the motor.

 

[liv2ryd]

I can't believe they awarded the win to that Qulbix rider. His bike was clearly much faster than the rest of the pack. The way that guy was pedaling, he would have been lapped on a legal bike. What a joke. I've never watched such a pathetic race...

 

[Rusty]

I think it really shows how Emtbs are still very misunderstood. Here in the US I had to become a member of the American Motorcycle Association (AMA) to race my Emtb in the GNCC series. I thought the Europeans would have done better but they were WORSE. At least the GNCC races are on single track not a full on motocross track.

That sucks. Having raced AMA and FIM in motocross I hate the thought of either organization having ANYTHING to do with eMTB.
I can see them having eMX bike races with things such as SurRon, KTM, Alta, Apollo, Mugen E.rex and others of their like but nothing with pedal assist power.

 

[nickB]

That was just embarrassing! The guy that won was on an electric dirt bike with pedals! I hope they don't do it again.

 

[Al Boneta]

It’s kinda funny that I keep telling people that Emtbs aren’t motorcycles and then they hold a race on a MX track.
As much as I love Emtbs, racing them will always seem stupid to me. If you don’t want to be called a cheater out in the trail, but make it a competition, we will never win over the riders that ridicule us.
There is no way to make Emtb racing cheat proof in the first place and based on this display of stupidity, the rules as to what is an Emtb are all over the map.
FFS this was beyond embarrassing.

 

[wrayb]

I

It’s kinda funny that I keep telling people that Emtbs aren’t motorcycles and then they hold a race on a MX track.
As much as I love Emtbs, racing them will always seem stupid to me. If you don’t want to be called a cheater out in the trail, but make it a competition, we will never win over the riders that ridicule us.
There is no way to make Emtb racing cheat proof in the first place and based on this display of stupidity, the rules as to what is an Emtb are all over.

I disagree somewhat. As with all types of racing there has to be rules and there has to be enforcement of the rules. Electric bikes, motorcycles, cars, etc. racing is coming. Somebody needs to get in front of this with a consistent, easily enforceable set of rules for electric devices. I think there is a place for eMTB racing. I believe there is a perfect niche between mountain bikes and motorcycles and the eMTB bike fits that niche. In fact, I think eMTB racing may become bigger than pedal mountain bike racing for a few reasons. I see the FIM foray into the sport as a really pitifully poor attempt. Seems like they would be looking at electric motorcycles (not bicycles) for their fanbase. Who wouldn't want to see what a real electric motorcycle can do on a real GP track.

 

[Rusty]

I


I disagree somewhat. As with all types of racing there has to be rules and there has to be enforcement of the rules. Electric bikes, motorcycles, cars, etc. racing is coming. Somebody needs to get in front of this with a consistent, easily enforceable set of rules for electric devices. I think there is a place for eMTB racing. I believe there is a perfect niche between mountain bikes and motorcycles and the eMTB bike fits that niche. In fact, I think eMTB racing may become bigger than pedal mountain bike racing for a few reasons. I see the FIM foray into the sport as a really pitifully poor attempt. Seems like they would be looking at electric motorcycles (not bicycles) for their fanbase. Who wouldn't want to see what a real electric motorcycle can do on a real GP track.

yes and no. Quite frankly, as a past MX racer and long time web editor I have seen how badly the FIM have managed all forms of motorcycle sport over the last 40 years or so and in particular how Youthstream has killed off the ability for a local rider to qualify for a GP and build the opportunity to race a few selected GPs to get noticed. Kind of like how on the RR side if you aren't Spanish or Italian you are second class.
While the UCI is not too flash, I would rather they controlled eMTB racing - and kept to pedal assist with sealed motors that are off the shelf production units. Also need to be scrutineered to ensure certain controls are kept - with the podium bikes re-checked to ensure they remain untampered. Probably need to be powered off right on the finish line to stop mechanics from resetting them via bluetooth.

 

[wrayb]

While the UCI is not too flash, I would rather they controlled eMTB racing - and kept to pedal assist with sealed motors that are off the shelf production units. Also need to be scrutineered to ensure certain controls are kept - with the podium bikes re-checked to ensure they remain untampered. Probably need to be powered off right on the finish line to stop mechanics from resetting them via bluetooth.

Great points.

I do feel a hint of concern in the air from both FIM and AMA sides...I believe they see the inevitability future of electric motorcycles taking over their sports...I think that is why both are looking at eMTBs as a segue into full blown electric motorcycles (not very smart imho).

Either way...if you build it someone will race it...so eMTB racing is assured. The uncertainty question for this forum is...who should be promoting eMTB racing? Should it be UCI? AMA? FIM? IMBA? SORBA? USA Cycling? Other? An eMTB organization (E-IMBA)?

And what should it look like? Single track? Short track? BMX track (I hope not)? Motocross track (definitely not).

All races <= 1 hour?

 

[Al Boneta]

I


I disagree somewhat. As with all types of racing there has to be rules and there has to be enforcement of the rules. Electric bikes, motorcycles, cars, etc. racing is coming. Somebody needs to get in front of this with a consistent, easily enforceable set of rules for electric devices. I think there is a place for eMTB racing. I believe there is a perfect niche between mountain bikes and motorcycles and the eMTB bike fits that niche. In fact, I think eMTB racing may become bigger than pedal mountain bike racing for a few reasons. I see the FIM foray into the sport as a really pitifully poor attempt. Seems like they would be looking at electric motorcycles (not bicycles) for their fanbase. Who wouldn't want to see what a real electric motorcycle can do on a real GP track.

That’s like saying
“wouldn’t it be great if marathons were raced on Segways?”

 

[wrayb]

Actually...there is tons of Segway racing...Google it. (I just did and was shocked!)

My point is there already ARE large, powerful organizations with widespread influence (FIM, AMA, UCI) sanctioning EMTB races...and input is needed from people who actually ride these bikes. I have a request in for the contact information for the FIM director in charge of the E-XBike race. I hope to at least send in my constructive comments on this race.

 

[Pukmeister]

What have I just watched ? EMTB racing on a MX track ??

I have no idea, except that it was boring and an embarrassment.

I think it is not a real spectator sport and will hopefully die a natural death (unless stupid amounts of sponsorship money does the talking.)

 

[wrayb]

What have I just watched ? EMTB racing on a MX track ??

I have no idea, except that it was boring and an embarrassment.

I think it is not a real spectator sport and will hopefully die a natural death (unless stupid amounts of sponsorship money does the talking.)

Agreed. Racing EMTBs on an MX track is not a good idea. I can't believe anyone would sponsor "that". However...I will back up a little here...I would like to give credit to the true "racers" who competed in the FIM race. There were some exceptionally gifted athletes who did it "right" and they should get props for their effort. It was just the concept of racing trail bikes on an MX track that was bad. Imagine if someone took a bunch of motocross bikes straight off the MX track and raced them on the high banks of Daytona...with knobbies...MX gearing...wouldn't make sense would it.

The GNCC races for EMTBs on the other hand are really interesting and for the most part on the appropriate trails. Check out GNCC Racing - America's Premier Off-Road Racing Series

Click on the eMTB link in the banner at the top of the page. Lots of information on this website. This is the first year for the series and plans are already underway for year #2.

 

[Rusty]

The uncertainty question for this forum is...who should be promoting eMTB racing? Should it be UCI? AMA? FIM? IMBA? SORBA? USA Cycling? Other? An eMTB organization (E-IMBA)?

Unless a seperate organization arises I say the UCI.

And what should it look like? Single track? Short track? BMX track (I hope not)? Motocross track (definitely not).

All races <= 1 hour?

Run eMTB races combines with DH - have them use sections of the course both going up and coming down.

 

[55plusmxinsanity]

Yup, it was a weird race, the spectators and riders seemed to enjoy it and the battle for 2,3,4 was pretty good.

 

[MattyB]

Meanwhile, over in the Pinkbike comments section...

Video: The FIM eMTB

Some standard vitriolic ebike bile as usual, but also a few hilarious comments and videos too - if you want to watch an even more embarrassing race format why not enjoy Crossfitters trying cyclocross...


@Gary, an assessment of their manualling technique please....

 

[Slowroller]

Ebike racing will always be full of cheating human nature being what it is. Even if they somehow can keep tampering from happening, all stock motors and electrical systems are not created equal, it'll never be a level playing field. I wouldn't put special black box sort of motors from the manufacturers out of the question once winning races means more sales.

I think this is a good assesment
Taking the red pill – The darker truth behind international eMTB racing | E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

I think if anyone ends up controlling ebike racing, it'll be the UCI, the value of the rainbow stripes will always be considerable. My guess is that e-racing will shake out to 250w "stock" emtbs, higher powered light emotorcycles or whatever you want to call them, and electric MX bikes, all run by different organizations.

Maybe emtb races will resemble XC races? Or, just a new class for Enduro? Hard to say. Definitely not on a MX track though...