Faraday Battery Challenge

[Wiltshire Warrior]

Great news here - Finally moving away from our heavy Salt Solution ionised batteries to Solid State, so we can dream of having 2000Whr batteries that charge to full in an hour and weigh less too!!!

So thats me making do with my bike until this new technology trickles down to us.

R&D at Harwell
Battery Industrialision Centre in Coventry (opens next year)

Credit to the BEIS and UKRI and Greg Clark

 

[steve_sordy]

I thought all batteries that did not actually have a liquid in were solid state? Or am I confusing in a solid state (as opposed to in a liquid state like a lead-acid battery) with "solid-state" meaning something else?

Mr Google's offering

solid state
noun

1. 1.
   the state of matter in which materials are not fluid but retain their boundaries without support, the atoms or molecules occupying fixed positions with respect to each other and unable to move freely.

adjective

1. 1.
   (of a device) making use of the electronic properties of solid semiconductors (as opposed to valves).

I was thinking the former, whereas that video obviously is referring to the latter. It's all about the difference between nouns and adjectives apparently!

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

Our current bike batteries are packed with 18652 cells which are lithium ion. The solution inside them provides the electrolyte as lithium salt in an organic solvent.

It is this solvent that can boil and explode if over charged.

The next generation of batteries wont have the solvent and wont be restricted to the shape of the 18652.

All great news

With motors getting smaller and this i reckon ebikes in the future will be indistinguishable from acoustic and have more power and range.

There is another project looking at redesigning the capacitor for lithium salt batteries with a target if 50% more power.

 

[S D]

Interesting stuff this?
Keep up the good work ?

 

[EMTBehave]

What is the realistic introduction date, 2020 or is it beyond that?

 

[MattyB]

What is the realistic introduction date, 2020 or is it beyond that?

No, that is almost certainly unrealistic. Panasonic believe 2025 for automotive uses at the earliest, and BMW are giving similar estimates. Also remember ebikes will not be at the front of the queue if and when production begins - it's automotive and mass grid storage applications that will gobble the majority of the (limited) production capacity in the early years.

As a result I would try not to get too excited just yet - the interweb is littered with reports of pioneering new battery tech that is promising in the lab but that can't be scaled or has an achilles heel in energy density, power density, safety or cycle life. I susect we are going to be riding Li-ion powered bikes for some time to come yet...

 

[Fivetones]

It takes a long time to commercialise research. Feasibility of large scale manufacturing is the challenge. Just ask the Graphene folk

This is the area I work in as it happens (UKRI at Daresbury).

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

It takes a long time to commercialise research. Feasibility of large scale manufacturing is the challenge. Just ask the Graphene folk

This is the area I work in as it happens (UKRI at Daresbury).

You are correct but I have high hopes for the Battery Industrialisation Centre in Coventry which has some challenging targets that the UK car market will be reliant on. ( no Robin jokes please)

 

[Fivetones]

You are correct but I have high hopes for the Battery Industrialisation Centre in Coventry which has some challenging targets that the UK car market will be reliant on. ( no Robin jokes please)

Well my name is actually Robin. No, really.

I see spin offs from the Driving Electric Revolution programme (government industrial strategy) soon to be getting underway. I'm definitely an optimist too.

 

[Al-Rider]

Saw this article today. 1 KWh/Kg would be a dream come true for e-bikes or for EVs. Perhaps it's all hype, but surely with so much effort put into developing new battery technologies, sometime soon there will be a breakthrough. When it will trickle down to e-bike batteries is another issue.

 

[steve_sordy]

What will we do for batteries when all the rare earth minerals run out? I can't believe that there would be a future for emtbs with lead-acid batteries. Or will we just keep discovering more?
(A bit like oil I suppose, I remember being told over 50 years ago that there was only 30 years of oil left on the planet, and there still is!)

 

[steve_sordy]

.............When it will treacle down to e-bike batteries is another issue.

"treacle down" not seen that before. I love it.

 

[StuckintheSpokes]

What will we do for batteries when all the rare earth minerals run out? I can't believe that there would be a future for emtbs with lead-acid batteries. Or will we just keep discovering more?
(A bit like oil I suppose, I remember being told over 50 years ago that there was only 30 years of oil left on the planet, and there still is!)

Can’t you recycle batteries though?

 

[steve_sordy]

Can’t you recycle batteries though?

I'm pretty sure that you can, but it cannot be cost effective at the moment, or it would be happening and you would be offered money for your old phone. I believe that China is the main supplier (95%+) of the rare earths required for the latest batteries. Which is probably why the West is looking for alternatives!

 

[Fivetones]

Batteries and phones etc can readily be recycled and mostly batteries are Lithium based for the supply in this thread (NiMH are not used and lead acid never - rare earths not used). Whilst China has good supply it’s mostly a myth they corner anything.

Just so that we don’t get misinformation creeping in. Remember Wikipedia is your friend