Experience of buying a Santa Cruz in the UK

[DOMBUSH]

As someone who dislikes unfair or unreasonable online criticism I've thought hard about posting this. However, I'll stick to the facts and only the facts whilst describing my UK buying experience.

• Ordered a high-spec Santa Cruz Bullit in late March 21, putting a 10% deposit down
• From a reputable dealers stock order. I had limited choice (spec & colour), so as to match the allocation. Delivery was to be 1 week or 5 weeks.
• 1st delay - Delayed 5 months until September - apologies, specific parts unavailable.
• 2nd delay - Delayed until October - apologies, definitely in the next weeks
• 3rd delay, late October - Imminent release from Santa-Cruz - non specific date
• Paid to ride a demonstrator in November 21 - confirmed it was worth waiting for.
• 4th delay, November - January 22 - dealer was incredulous at the situation.
• Today's delay - Probably! March 22

I won't name the dealer, who whilst could have been more communicative, has been civil and offered me a lower spec bike & twice offered me a refund which I declined as I wanted the ordered bike. I also figured, surely the worst is over.

So, I hear about a potential new model lightweight bike, but I think you should know what you're in for.

If someone from Santa Cruz wanted to PM me to explain, I'd be happy to listen.

 

[Choppersquad]

A years delay is ridiculous. It's like the bike shop had no communication at all with the factory when they gave you the original date and took your deposit. I know its been completely out of their hands since then, but it's like they didn't warn you in case you cancelled the order. Saying that though, I certainly wouldn't want to own a bike shop at the moment.

 

[RustyIron]

I don't understand why a deposit needs to be made for an off-the-rack bike. It seems like a ploy to use your money for a year, and to prevent you from buying the bike elsewhere. Get your money back.

 

[Gary]

Being in the UK I'm sure you're aware of the ongoing pandemic? And it sounds like you're aware of the current and ongoing shortage of parts throughout the entire bike industry?

Dealer sounds like they kept you up to date with each delay and offered you all the alternative options they could at the time. You have to remember dealers/shops are at the mercy of manufacturers too. and parts delays, non availability or non/late delivery is also out of the bike individual manufacturers hands.
I'm not trying to be unfair or unreasonable here. I'm simply being realistic.
The bike industry supply chain has been in a mess for almost two years now. And believe it or not for bike shop staff and owners this has also been a stressful time with an upturn in demand and a lot of extra work sourcing supplies, and extra work trying to explain to customers that delivery dates can no longer be guaranteed like they used to be. So as much as I understand your frustration and need to vent try not to feel too harshly done by.

 

[Gary]

I don't understand why a deposit needs to be made for an off-the-rack bike. It seems like a ploy to use your money for a year, and to prevent you from buying the bike elsewhere. Get your money back.

I don't think you grasp what the concept of what a "deposit" actually is.
it's simply a contract between the buyer and retailer to secure a purchase. Generally secured by a payment (normally a fraction of the full cost). It's not a "ploy" but common business/sales practice
The OP mentioned he has been offered his money back multiple times

this may help you.

DEPOSIT:

A deposit is an amount of money paid by a buyer to a seller at the beginning of a sales process in order to secure the sale.
An optional part of the sales process, a deposit is a specified amount of money (usually a percentage of the total amount) that is paid upfront in order to ensure that the sale will go through and that the products/service will be provided.

A deposit is paid by the buyer to the seller before a sale is completed. A deposit is usually refundable up until a certain date. In some cases, a deposit is non-refundable, meaning that if the buyer cancels the sale or is unable to pay for the sale, they will not receive the deposit amount back.

However, if the sale is followed through successfully, the deposit will be applied to the final payment amount - considered as a down payment.

 

[kikoborrico]

One year ago I bought my Bullit in a online shop in Germany from Spain; in my country the delay (in these dates) was 6 months minimun.The bike was at home in one week.

Look for online stock and give them your money.

 

[cdavies102]

Being in the UK I'm sure you're aware of the ongoing pandemic? And it sounds like you're aware of the current and ongoing shortage of parts throughout the entire bike industry?

Dealer sounds like they kept you up to date with each delay and offered you all the alternative options they could at the time. You have to remember dealers/shops are at the mercy of manufacturers too. and parts delays, non availability or non/late delivery is also out of the bike individual manufacturers hands.
I'm not trying to be unfair or unreasonable here. I'm simply being realistic.
The bike industry supply chain has been in a mess for almost two years now. And believe it or not for bike shop staff and owners this has also been a stressful time with an upturn in demand and a lot of extra work sourcing supplies, and extra work trying to explain to customers that delivery dates can no longer be guaranteed like they used to be. So as much as I understand your frustration and need to vent try not to feel too harshly done by.

I don't quite agree with your response. OP was more than fair - explaining his cautiousness to post anything online and was more than fair with the comments. Saying 'try not to feel too harshly done by' is a bit of a stretch. We all know the state of the world and shortage of MTB parts, but a year (potentially more) of delays on a pre-allocated bike is not fair - not by the dealer but by SC. SC have continued to pump out bikes with the parts on that these bikes are in short supply of.

I was also involved with the delays-upon-delays of the Bullit last year after placing my deposit in Jan 2021 on a pre-allocated bike. I gave up mid last year and luckily found one in stock at Brink which I collected the same day.

 

[Snrbrtsn]

I don't quite agree with your response. OP was more than fair - explaining his cautiousness to post anything online and was more than fair with the comments. Saying 'try not to feel too harshly done by' is a bit of a stretch. We all know the state of the world and shortage of MTB parts, but a year (potentially more) of delays on a pre-allocated bike is not fair - not by the dealer but by SC. SC have continued to pump out bikes with the parts on that these bikes are in short supply of.

I was also involved with the delays-upon-delays of the Bullit last year after placing my deposit in Jan 2021 on a pre-allocated bike. I gave up mid last year and luckily found one in stock at Brink which I collected the same day.

I’d almost replicate what both yourselves and OP have posted, on a whim I’d recollect and confirm the same dealer……., after so many months I cut my loses and requested the refund, bought a Levo
The markets moving very quick and last years promised stock is now out of date!

 

[jim0905]

Wait till it comes and they inform you it's now £1k dearer

 

[Gary]

I don't quite agree with your response

Just as well my response wasn't actually for you then. Eh?

 

[Mikerb]

I placed an order for a Whyte E150 with my local LBS ( Whyte dealer) at the beginning of January. Their policy is that they will not take a deposit until they have a confirmed delivery date from the local Whyte rep. I assume bikes are delivered as a batch to a central depot before then being transported to the various LBS that have placed orders, so a confirmed delivery date is one that is based on the central depot having recieved the bulk delivery. Whilst you cannot order Whyte bikes via their website, they did reply by email to me saying that a batch of 2022 bikes was due in the UK late January. Meanwhile the UK rep did not know that and therefore neither did the LBS! We will see when that ship actually docks!!

 

[cdavies102]

Just as well my response wasn't actually for you then. Eh?

Based on your shitty first reply, this is exactly the type of response I was expecting

 

[Shjay]

Having worked for a distributor in the past, some shops used to say they had stock when they had never even placed orders with us expecting to get the bikes. If your a big shop shifting lots of a brand you will get priority & as Gary said shortage of parts etc has caused massive issues. You pay a deposit because The shop should also commit to distributor otherwise shop can be stuck with bikes from cancelled orders, obviously in current market this is less likely due to high demands

 

[Madmountainman]

My tuppence worth... Ordered mine January '21. LBS told me it was going to be sketchy and informed me on delays - the last being Christmas. Come December and the XT wasn't coming and I was offered an S or XO. I wasn't happy down-grading and upgrading was prohibitively expensive, so I chose to wait. The latest ETA is now August '22, but my LBS informed me of the new Heckler possibly being available sooner so I have enquired. Looking at the revised geo numbers, the new Heckler's now very similar to the Bullit, with the only major difference being the fork angle. The situation is what it is. My bike choice is limited by the frame size/geo numbers, so i'm just sucking it up and waiting. Am I disappointed? Yes, but there's no point complaining, the situation is what it is and getting upset, moaning or throwing a tantrum isn't going to change anything. Regarding the current Bullit being made obsolete just because a different model now has a larger battery, that's just down to the speed of e-mtb development these days. You could say that the new Heckler will be obsolete two years from now, given the odds that one of the big guys will likely be launching a combined motor and gearbox. Does that mean we should all wait for that development to come, or should we just get on and ride... if/when we can get a bike to ride?

 

[Coolcmsc]

I bought a Bullit in the U.K. in March ‘21 in the only spec available in my size from the only shop selling one here - must have been one of the last XL’s. I asked about delivery dates at my local SC dealer before that purchase and, out of interest, I keep asking every time I pop in now and again for a chat and purchases. The info I was given originally and over the subsequent time right up to now is completely in line with the OP’s and others here. This lbs is known as one of the best in the U.K. (voted best by Singletrack readers 4 times now - unmatched). My point is that it’s trusted for a reason.
So, I’m essentially in agreement with @Madmountainman and @Gary . It’s like this for a reason. We’re all feeling troubled for a reason (Im waiting and waiting for a warranty motor replacement). I was lucky and made my choice initially. Others less lucky. Now my bikes out of action for the same reasons. I think it’s hard for all involved.

 

[Madmountainman]

So, I’m essentially in agreement with @Madmountainman and @Gary . It’s like this for a reason. We’re all feeling troubled for a reason (Im waiting and waiting for a warranty motor replacement). I was lucky and made my choice initially. Others less lucky. Now my bikes out of action for the same reasons. I think it’s hard for all involved.

Given the big delays that are leading to riders' bikes being off the run for long periods of time; it would be a great gesture if the manufacturers gave those people, that have experienced warranty delays, the goodwill of extending their bike's warranty, given the fact that they've not had the time to ride it and find out if any faults develop.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

I bought a Bullit in the U.K. in March ‘21 in the only spec available in my size from the only shop selling one here - must have been one of the last XL’s. I asked about delivery dates at my local SC dealer before that purchase and, out of interest, I keep asking every time I pop in now and again for a chat and purchases. The info I was given originally and over the subsequent time right up to now is completely in line with the OP’s and others here. This lbs is known as one of the best in the U.K. (voted best by Singletrack readers 4 times now - unmatched). My point is that it’s trusted for a reason.
So, I’m essentially in agreement with @Madmountainman and @Gary . It’s like this for a reason. We’re all feeling troubled for a reason (Im waiting and waiting for a warranty motor replacement). I was lucky and made my choice initially. Others less lucky. Now my bikes out of action for the same reasons. I think it’s hard for all involved.

if they cant fix it under warranty, in a reasonable time 12 weeks I believe is the guideline, then you should get your money back IMHO. Although I do understand the delays having waited an extra 6 months for my bike to arrive in the UK recently.

 

[Coolcmsc]

Given the big delays that are leading to riders' bikes being off the run for long periods of time; it would be a great gesture if the manufacturers gave those people, that have experienced warranty delays, the goodwill of extending their bike's warranty, given the fact that they've not had the time to ride it and find out if any faults develop.

That would have to be funded somewhere down the line. As you’ll know, Specialized did something like this for the motors. I guess they funded that by estimating a trade-off related sales based on reputation. They’re still in business.

 

[Coolcmsc]

if they cant fix it under warranty, in a reasonable time 12 weeks I believe is the guideline, then you should get your money back IMHO. Although I do understand the delays having waited an extra 6 months for my bike to arrive in the UK recently.

I’ve been there and done that with motor problems for an eeb and posted elsewhere in the forum on the rules and how-to in the U.K. In my extensive reading and asking a lawyer specialising in this area (my cousin!), I didn’t hear about a 12 week guideline in the U.K. Can you recall whether that’s a cycle industry guideline such as from the Cycle Traders Association maybe? Thanks!

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

I’ve been there and done that with motor problems for an eeb and posted elsewhere in the forum on the rules and how-to in the U.K. In my extensive reading and asking a lawyer specialising in this area (my cousin!), I didn’t hear about a 12 week guideline in the U.K. Can you recall whether that’s a cycle industry guideline such as from the Cycle Traders Association maybe? Thanks!

Hi, That was the line that John Lewis followed when my oven burnt out during warranty. Also what Citizens Advice quoted as what would be considered a reasonable time for a repair. Out side of that you run into unfit for purpose but all these things are subject to interpretation and I ended up contacting the chairman of JL to get my problem sorted out with a dedicated handler who called me everyday and supplied and had fitted a new oven from Italy asap.

 

[Coolcmsc]

That’s helpful to know, thanks.
And we’ll done - excellent tactics. I also advocate being firm, polite, asking for confirmation of receipt, requesting decisions in 14 working days, sticking to facts with dates, everything in writing and your right, go to the top!
It’s a long time, isn’t it, 12 weeks. Just had a new EP8 motor in 3 weeks under warranty - I was already pleased and now I’m ecstatic
PS: I know where to get the JL ‘s Chairman’s contact details now too

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

That’s helpful to know, thanks.
And we’ll done - excellent tactics. I also advocate being firm, polite, asking for confirmation of receipt, requesting decisions in 14 working days, sticking to facts with dates, everything in writing and your right, go to the top!
It’s a long time, isn’t it, 12 weeks. Just had a new EP8 motor in 3 weeks under warranty - I was already pleased and now I’m ecstatic
PS: I know where to get the JL ‘s Chairman’s contact details now too

Glad you got it sorted.

 

[DOMBUSH]

As someone who dislikes unfair or unreasonable online criticism I've thought hard about posting this. However, I'll stick to the facts and only the facts whilst describing my UK buying experience.

• Ordered a high-spec Santa Cruz Bullit in late March 21, putting a 10% deposit down
• From a reputable dealers stock order. I had limited choice (spec & colour), so as to match the allocation. Delivery was to be 1 week or 5 weeks.
• 1st delay - Delayed 5 months until September - apologies, specific parts unavailable.
• 2nd delay - Delayed until October - apologies, definitely in the next weeks
• 3rd delay, late October - Imminent release from Santa-Cruz - non specific date
• Paid to ride a demonstrator in November 21 - confirmed it was worth waiting for.
• 4th delay, November - January 22 - dealer was incredulous at the situation.
• Today's delay - Probably! March 22

I won't name the dealer, who whilst could have been more communicative, has been civil and offered me a lower spec bike & twice offered me a refund which I declined as I wanted the ordered bike. I also figured, surely the worst is over.

So, I hear about a potential new model lightweight bike, but I think you should know what you're in for.

If someone from Santa Cruz wanted to PM me to explain, I'd be happy to listen.

Just to round off this thread, after 10 months of previous delays I waited the extra 2 months to be told that Santa Cruz could not tell me when I would receive my Bullit.

So, in summary :- 1 year beyond the original delivery date, 6 separate promises, £1500 deposit paid. Communication remained reasonable throughout discussions, never once was I contacted before I contacted them.

Contacting the UK distributor, their viewpoint was to leave it to the dealer, the dealer got no information from the distributor.

I cancelled my order this week as the irritation has now overtaken the excitement of owning my dream bike.

I hope others have had a better Santa Cruz (UK or otherwise) experience.

 

[cdavies102]

That sucks - can't blame your decision. With more used versions now available - I'd pick up a 2nd hand version of your dream bike, ideally from someone who will help with potential future warranty, and make a big cost saving over new.

 

[leroy]

this thread is a sad story,and seems a more and more common scenario.

i wonder if a change of attitude by the bike manufacturers is needed here?

it doesn't seem right that dealers have bikes on there websites for sale that aren't available and have no eta.

so many people have left deposits on bikes that they have no idea when they will arrive it seems quite ridiculous.

i wonder if the op's problem is that the bullet replacement is coming soon so there is no new stock of the current version?

i've placed a 1k deposit on a new heckler but i'm starting to wonder if i'll see it this side of summer.my dealer has no information on when it will arrive which i find strange because somebody somewhere must have a plan as to when the uk stock will arrive.

maybe dealers need to stop advertising and taking deposits on stock they cant be sure that they'll ever see.......