ETMB disappointment

[Andyd1966]

Just purchased a Whyte E160S with a Bosch motor, and wanted to understand how this works as it would seem that I’m constantly working against the motor rather than assisting me. Everything looks like it’s setup, but I’m riding the bike more without the motor on, which defeats the object. Any ideas or is this how it is with the 25kmh restriction?

 

[Mteam]

The motor has to (by law) provide no power at speeds above 25km/h (other countries have different limits), so if you're travelling over this speed then what you're describing is normal, and it will feel like you're pedalling with the motor switched off .

Under this speed , the motor should be providing a variable level of power depending on what mode you are in, and how hard you are pedalling - unless you have it switched off, in which case the motor will do nothing (obviously)

 

[James_C]

Really depends where you are riding. If it is on a flat road, yes the motor is not a lot of use. Time to get off road and point it up some big hills.

 

[Paulquattro]

Welcome
If you had assist you would know flat or not
All the above points taken into consideration
Remember its a pedal assist bike not a motorbike which a lot of people seem to get mixed up with

 

[TommyC]

What I’ve realised is that if I expect to exceed the limit, I’ll ride in eco. That way I’m in a low enough gear when I hit the limit to power past it.

Well, that was before I derestricted it!

 

[Andyd1966]

Thanks for all the replies. So from what I gather it’s best to ride without the motor if your on the road or at best eco mode, and use the motor when you get to ride out in the woods etc. My rides will have a mixture of both, just the nature of where I live

 

[Paulquattro]

Thanks for all the replies. So from what I gather it’s best to ride without the motor if your on the road or at best eco mode, and use the motor when you get to ride out in the woods etc. My rides will have a mixture of both, just the nature of where I live

If your bike is working as intended and isnt faulty i dont see you have anything to worry about
I reckon your over thinking it , put it in what ever assist level you feel comfortable with when you hit the assist cut off keep pedalling or cruise in and around the 15.5mph where ever you are
If your offroad on trails etc i doubt you will even notice it much especially when pointing down and going for it
Enjoy

 

[Stihldog]

No wonder the derestricting market is thriving in the EU. In North America the limits are set at 32km or 20mph. Those limits seem reasonable to me.

I rarely travel on the roads so EMTB-mode is usually all I need. I don’t have a derestricting device but my LBS always ask before they do a computer update. Only seen one on our mountain …and that was DOA.

 

[steve_sordy]

Thanks for all the replies. So from what I gather it’s best to ride without the motor if your on the road or at best eco mode, and use the motor when you get to ride out in the woods etc. My rides will have a mixture of both, just the nature of where I live

I would leave the motor on, you never know when you might need the power assist. anyway, if you are riding above 25kph, you are not drawing power from the battery. You are however, clocking up the distance, so if that is a concern because you are doing a lot of it, then it's a consideration.

 

[Stihldog]

Thank goodness gravity is an endless source of power. It works well when pointed down hill and doesn’t drain my battery, but I still leave my motor on.

 

[DieBoy]

No wonder the derestricting market is thriving in the EU. In North America the limits are set at 32km or 20mph. Those limits seem reasonable to me.

It was a reasonable compromise IMO, balanced out that ebikes (upto 25kmh assist) are otherwise treated legally the same as analogue cycles: no compulsory insurance, no helmet compulsion, and importantly the use of all cycling infrastructure.

Bear in mind that the rule applies to all types of ebikes not just MTB and riders of all skill levels.

There are legal faster ebikes, s-pedalecs, with assist up to 45kmh. But they're classed as mopeds, with all that involves and you can't (legally) use them on cycling infrastructure. They're not that popular.

In my part of the world you can walk or cycle through any forest, including privately owned, as long as you keep to some commonsense rules. As the eMTB (pedalec up to 25kmh assist) is legally a cycle, plenty of places to ride without hassle.

North America compared to Europe doesn't have the same level of cycling infrastructure, nor does it have the same culture of using a bicycle to simply get from A to B. It would be unfair to expect granny on her Holland bike on the way to the shops to share a cyclepath with basically a light motorbike.

 

[DieBoy]

Thanks for all the replies. So from what I gather it’s best to ride without the motor if your on the road or at best eco mode, and use the motor when you get to ride out in the woods etc. My rides will have a mixture of both, just the nature of where I live

It does sound as if the bike behaviour is normal. On road I'm nearly always riding faster than the motor assistance, that's why I have leg muscles . The motor is still helpful in an urban situation where you've a lot of stop and go. Off-road going uphill is when the motor really shines.

Yes it helps being in the right gear when the assistance cuts out. And mid-motor ebikes perfer higher cadence less force pedalling in general. The Bosch will (if you've a display like the Kiox 300) actually complain if you're pedalling in too high a gear for it's comfort. I had to adjust my pedalling style with the new bike.

Older motor models apparently had noticeable drag when riding over the assist speed, but that's not (or shouldn't be) a problem with the current models.

Note you can adjust to some extent the motor behaviour in the Flow App under customise riding modes. I bumped the settings up a bit for Turbo, emtb, and slightly for tour+ modes. You can't however increase to assistance to over 25kmh. Maybe still have a look though.

 

[Binhill1]

It does sound as if the bike behaviour is normal. On road I'm nearly always riding faster than the motor assistance, that's why I have leg muscles . The motor is still helpful in an urban situation where you've a lot of stop and go. Off-road going uphill is when the motor really shines.

Yes it helps being in the right gear when the assistance cuts out. And mid-motor ebikes perfer higher cadence less force pedalling in general. The Bosch will (if you've a display like the Kiox 300) actually complain if you're pedalling in too high a gear for it's comfort. I had to adjust my pedalling style with the new bike.

Older motor models apparently had noticeable drag when riding over the assist speed, but that's not (or shouldn't be) a problem with the current models.

Note you can adjust to some extent the motor behaviour in the Flow App under customise riding modes. I bumped the settings up a bit for Turbo, emtb, and slightly for tour+ modes. You can't however increase to assistance to over 25kmh. Maybe still have a look though.

It does sound as if the bike behaviour is normal. On road I'm nearly always riding faster than the motor assistance, that's why I have leg muscles . The motor is still helpful in an urban situation where you've a lot of stop and go. Off-road going uphill is when the motor really shines.

Yes it helps being in the right gear when the assistance cuts out. And mid-motor ebikes perfer higher cadence less force pedalling in general. The Bosch will (if you've a display like the Kiox 300) actually complain if you're pedalling in too high a gear for it's comfort. I had to adjust my pedalling style with the new bike.

Older motor models apparently had noticeable drag when riding over the assist speed, but that's not (or shouldn't be) a problem with the current models.

Note you can adjust to some extent the motor behaviour in the Flow App under customise riding modes. I bumped the settings up a bit for Turbo, emtb, and slightly for tour+ modes. You can't however increase to assistance to over 25kmh. Maybe still have a look though.

I couldn't ride mine with the motor off at over assist cut out speed. When I do go over cut out speed on the road it feels nothing like it does with the motor off. But I'm an auld mannie noo.

 

[Arminius]

Wondering if a Whyte E160S is the right bike for someone hitting the limiter that often and disliking.

 

[Binhill1]

Wondering if a Whyte E160S is the right bike for someone hitting the limiter that often and disliking.

I meet a lot of youngsters on these ebikes and who would blame them. I can faintly remember when I could hammer along in top gear on a manual bike and climbed withe best of them , not anymore. . You still have a lot of piff in your 30s or even 40s . Rant over

 

[KnollyBro]

Just purchased a Whyte E160S with a Bosch motor, and wanted to understand how this works as it would seem that I’m constantly working against the motor rather than assisting me. Everything looks like it’s setup, but I’m riding the bike more without the motor on, which defeats the object. Any ideas or is this how it is with the 25kmh restriction?

Out if curiosity, why did you pick that particular bike? Did you know about the motor assist cut off before you bought the bike? Do you use the bike more for commuting than for XC or DH riding?

 

[Arminius]

I meet a lot of youngsters on these ebikes and who would blame them. I can faintly remember when I could hammer along in top gear on a manual bike and climbed withe best of them , not anymore. . You still have a lot of piff in your 30s or even 40s . Rant over

In my younger days we had no option to carry bike by car, rode roads 15km from the city to the country site, high pressure in tires, deflating when starting offroad riding, doing maybe a third or half in trail length & elevation what I do today (faster) by eMTB. On the way back home stop at first fuel station to inflate tires (AV valves) back to high pressure to run on road with in max gear maybe max, 25-30km/h back home.
Today I can go on road with Assegai/DHR above limiter but not for long time as tires & motor sucking energy from legs like a calf milk from the udder. Brose & Shimano may be differnt.

Past & today

 

[Binhill1]

In my younger days we had no option to carry bike by car, rode roads 15km from the city to the country site, high pressure in tires, deflating when starting offroad riding, doing maybe a third or half in trail length & elevation what I do today (faster) by eMTB. On the way back home stop at first fuel station to inflate tires (AV valves) back to high pressure to run on road with in max gear maybe max, 25-30km/h back home.
Today I can go on road with Assegai/DHR above limiter but not for long time as tires & motor sucking energy from legs like a calf milk from the udder. Brose & Shimano may be differnt.

Past & today
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Oh do I remember the long boring road miles to get to or back from a different offroad area. Could be 5 miles or 15 miles always a chew. But the young team always copes . Great memories

 

[DieBoy]

Wondering if a Whyte E160S is the right bike for someone hitting the limiter that often and disliking.

Regrettably the OP hasn't mentioned what they've ridden previously for a comparison.

I mean, all ebikes (sold new and not derestricted ) will have the same 25km cut-off in this jurisdiction.

If I'm not mistaken it's got the same Bosch gen 4 I've got , which usually has a noticeable amount of overrun.

I can't quite tell if there's something actually wrong with their bike (Monday model, weirdly configured) or if it's a case of expectations meeting reality.

The OP must be reasonably fit to be pedalling faster than the cut-off (as opposed to gravity) more often than not.

 

[Binhill1]

Regrettably the OP hasn't mentioned what they've ridden previously for a comparison.

I mean, all ebikes (sold new and not derestricted ) will have the same 25km cut-off in this jurisdiction.

If I'm not mistaken it's got the same Bosch gen 4 I've got , which usually has a noticeable amount of overrun.

I can't quite tell if there's something actually wrong with their bike (Monday model, weirdly configured) or if it's a case of expectations meeting reality.

The OP must be reasonably fit to be pedalling faster than the cut-off (as opposed to gravity) more often than not.

Well he was saying he can peddle faster or as fast without the motor ???? unless i picked it up all wrong .

 

[#lazy]

What I’ve realised is that if I expect to exceed the limit, I’ll ride in eco. That way I’m in a low enough gear when I hit the limit to power past it.

Well, that was before I derestricted it!

That’s a good point , if you lower the eco the drop off will be less . I’ve derestricted so don’t have this issue

 

[Binhill1]

That’s a good point , if you lower the eco the drop off will be less . I’ve derestricted so don’t have this issue

That's like saying you don't need the motor if you can pedal past the cut off. Or am I picking it up wrong.

 

[DieBoy]

Well he was saying he can peddle faster or as fast without the motor ???? unless i picked it up all wrong .

Yeah, that's why I'm not quite sure what the actuall issue is.

"I’m constantly working against the motor rather than assisting me" arouses the suspicion they've been unlucky and got a lemon. On the other hand, other parts suggest it's simply the 25kmh cut-off.

 

[Binhill1]

Yeah, that's why I'm not quite sure what the actuall issue is.

"I’m constantly working against the motor rather than assisting me" arouses the suspicion they've been unlucky and got a lemon. On the other hand, other parts suggest it's simply the 25kmh cut-off.

When he said he can pedal as fast with motor off it doesn't make sense to me , or he is mega fit . I'm curious but I don't like discussing anyone as a 3rd party if you know what I mean , its easy to offend .Trouble with this forum is u don't know the fitness or age of some people you are talking with. The majority of old folk like myself are pretty quick in telling folk that we are past our prime , plus we ramble on as our filters have stopped working. Happy cycling

 

[dirtdinner]

Sounds weird. The only time the limiter is annoying is when commuting on the road, which is pretty rare for me (it's a dual suspension mountain bike after all).

Maybe wrong tool, or maybe there is some fault with the motor?

 

[#lazy]

That's like saying you don't need the motor if you can pedal past the cut off. Or am I picking it up wrong.

“Need” is the wrong word but I’ve derestricted mine so don’t care !

 

[Binhill1]

“Need” is the wrong word but I’ve derestricted mine so don’t care !

I definitely need mine . Totally different on a road or gravel bike I was out on my old hardtail yesterday wow can it move and best climbing bike I ever had without a motor. Rambling now

 

[Arminius]

Out if curiosity, why did you pick that particular bike? Did you know about the motor assist cut off before you bought the bike? Do you use the bike more for commuting than for XC or DH riding?

@Andyd1966
Are you still here?

 

[Binhill1]

Sounds weird. The only time the limiter is annoying is when commuting on the road, which is pretty rare for me (it's a dual suspension mountain bike after all).

Maybe wrong tool, or maybe there is some fault with the motor?

Yes agree with you there on the road is the only time I wish it was a wee bit faster . Doesn't bother me enough to derestrict it though.

 

[Zimmerframe]

@Andyd1966
Are you still here?

Two posts and he's not been back on since Thursday.

Sounds more like a faulty bike based on his first post - mainly riding motor off as it's easier ??

Even if he was 99% of the time over the 25kph assist, it would make no difference if the motor was on or off.

Still plenty of interesting parallel conversations in the thread though