EMTB reliability

[Levo77]

Just curious.. Does anyone have the answer to how long is a piece of string..?
Those in the know, I ask how far are we from a properly reliable motor? Total uneducated guess is 5 yrs or so. I’m sure the big companies are working hard R&D. I am new to the whole scene and not that well off... I bought a S/H 2018 base model Levo and love it. I recently have accepted that it will break/fail eventually.. Today on a wobble round I’m getting a weird clicking sensation from my motor.. It has 930kms on it. I am encouraged by this bearing guy who apparently can refresh said brose 1.3.. My point is, the EMTB is in its infancy.. I couldn’t afford a fancy ass new bike at 5k plus, but realise now that even the new models have limited life.. They are a fantastic option for middle aged, overweight newbies. I guess in time they will come up with a near perfect motor we can ride, wash and just put away until the next time. ??

 

[Zimmerframe]

Please don't use oxymoron's on the forum.

 

[Levo77]

Please don't use oxymoron's on the forum.

Meaning, EMTB/Reliability?? ?‍?

 

[Levo77]

Meaning, EMTB/Reliability?? ?‍?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Sorry, yes .. the title

There is no fixed answer. In depends on how you use it, where you ride, how you ride, how you maintain it .. it you're lucky or unlucky ..there are so so so many factors.

The most important thing is to enjoy it and not let concerns over "lifespan" inhibit if you do or don't use it in order to potentially extend it's life span !

encouraged by this bearing guy who apparently can refresh said brose 1.3

I have a 1.3 and I honestly have no idea how it still works with all the crap I've put it through. Be very very careful with that @Bearing Man though. For €10,000 he'll even offer to give wives/husbands a thorough refresh, new rings, longer cranks, tighter bearings... I'm not convinced though. Yes, she wined a lot less for the first 2 weeks when I got her back, but after that it seemed much the same.

 

[Levo77]

Fair enough.. The reality appears to be an oxymoron.. I’ve read loads of stuff on this forum and gained so much knowledge (even from scary Gary) Anyway, I’ve spent hours researching what this whole EMTB world is about. Newbies want concrete info on which bike/motor they should spend their very hard earned coin on.. My conclusion is, THEY ALL HAVE ISSUES! I believe in the near future there will be a producer that comes up with a bullet proof motor for the people. Until then, we just enjoy this new era and accept we will need to take a week or two off while our bike is in the LBS being repaired.. ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

They all have "potential" issues .. the reality is for most people they have no issues. You have to keep in mind that when something breaks a lot of people search for a forum for more information - and then give their experience. People who sail through life in dreamy perfection rarely stop to tell anyone about it.

Just remember that scary Gary is really a hot chick who spends most of her time on-line elsewhere telling men how great they are, this is her escape ? via alter-ego !

 

[KeithR]

Newbies want concrete info on which bike/motor they should spend their very hard earned coin on.

But we're all newbies initially. The fact that we're still here should suggest that reliability isn't a major problem for the most part.

People only tend to go to print when there's a problem, but for every one of them there are God knows how many riders that keep on trucking without issue.

There are no guarantees, but as gambles go - given what a life-affirming experience e-mtb can be - it's not a bad one.

 

[Levo77]

They all have "potential" issues .. the reality is for most people they have no issues. You have to keep in mind that when something breaks a lot of people search for a forum for more information - and then give their experience. People who sail through life in dreamy perfection rarely stop to tell anyone about it.

Just remember that scary Gary is really a hot chick who spends most of her time on-line elsewhere telling men how great they are, this is her escape ? via alter-ego !

?? Truth is, I often skip through posts till I see a (Scary Gary) reply! He does appear to be very knowledgeable.. I’m into motorcycles in a fairly big way.. The Japanese arrived and were pretty dismal.. Nowadays, there are models that can take absolute dogs abuse and with little care/maintenance run reliably for years! I think EMTB will eventually do something similar.. ?

 

[Gary]

Those in the know, I ask how far are we from a properly reliable motor? Total uneducated guess is 5 yrs or so.

I'd say at least that.
The industry is more tied up with (in no particular order) either increasing power/efficiency, increasing range (mainly through more battery wh), making the bikes "look" less like Ebikes or lightening them up.
For me. Idealy motors need to become user/LBS servicable items rather than disposible as most are just now.

 

[Levo77]

I'd say at least that.
The industry is more tied up with (in no particualr order) either increasing power/efficiency, increasing range (mainly through more battery wh), making the bikes "look" less like Ebikes or lightening them up.
For me. Idealy motors need to become user/LBS servicable items rather than disposible as most are just now.

Thank you (Scary Gary) I won’t keep saying that, for replying to my meager post.. It’s been such a journey for me since March ‘20 I race motorcycles, well attempt too.. Not much racing this year, so thought let’s go MTBing! Bought an acoustic and after a few rides realised I was so unfit it was painful.. Decided if I was to continue this new found hobby, I’d need EMTB.. The new price of bikes is obscene! You know the rest... It’s a fun pass time.. Hopefully I’ll keep it up even if things go back to normal and I can race in places like East Fortune in Gary’s Land!! ??

 

[Gary]

Hahah...I know East Fortune all too well.
Home of the UK Fatbike scene... now that is full of scary people

 

[Forever Wild]

Fair enough.. The reality appears to be an oxymoron.. I’ve read loads of stuff on this forum and gained so much knowledge (even from scary Gary) Anyway, I’ve spent hours researching what this whole EMTB world is about. Newbies want concrete info on which bike/motor they should spend their very hard earned coin on.. My conclusion is, THEY ALL HAVE ISSUES! I believe in the near future there will be a producer that comes up with a bullet proof motor for the people. Until then, we just enjoy this new era and accept we will need to take a week or two off while our bike is in the LBS being repaired.. ?

I have spent more money on upgraded forks, shocks, wheels, handlebars, brakes etc. I feel I have them just the way i want them and they’re running great. I love both of my Trek and Specialized emtbs. Sometimes I think Brose 1.2e is better and sometimes I think Bosch gen 2 is better. They both are still running strong but when they fail... I’ll replace them. Just like any component that fails. Those old motors will hopefully be cheaper in the future. I have no intention of buying a new Ebike at 8k because I do not necessarily want the latest and greatest motor. I have more than adequate power and range and a replacement motor would be just fine. I ride my bikes over some terrible terrain and beat the hell out of them. I believe they perform very well considering the abuse they get.

 

[Levo77]

I'd say at least that.
The industry is more tied up with (in no particular order) either increasing power/efficiency, increasing range (mainly through more battery wh), making the bikes "look" less like Ebikes or lightening them up.
For me. Idealy motors need to become user/LBS servicable items rather than disposible as most are just now.

Totally agree!
In the short time I’ve had my Levo I believe the motor (with correct tools) can be dropped out in a matter of minutes. For those of us who enjoy tinkering, a rebuild kit or access to a parts list could be a great option.. Anyway, for the foreseeable, I need to just enjoy my bike and not constantly focus/worry about the impending doom! ???

 

[Hamina]

Just curious.. Does anyone have the answer to how long is a piece of string..?
Those in the know, I ask how far are we from a properly reliable motor? Total uneducated guess is 5 yrs or so. I’m sure the big companies are working hard R&D. I am new to the whole scene and not that well off... I bought a S/H 2018 base model Levo and love it. I recently have accepted that it will break/fail eventually.. Today on a wobble round I’m getting a weird clicking sensation from my motor.. It has 930kms on it. I am encouraged by this bearing guy who apparently can refresh said brose 1.3.. My point is, the EMTB is in its infancy.. I couldn’t afford a fancy ass new bike at 5k plus, but realise now that even the new models have limited life.. They are a fantastic option for middle aged, overweight newbies. I guess in time they will come up with a near perfect motor we can ride, wash and just put away until the next time. ??

So you bought Levo, had a problem and you're now thinking what is the reliability of all new EMTBs. I think you could have just posted this to Specialized section and make a note: "My point is, the EMTB Brose motors are in its infancy."

Bosch CX Gen 4 and zero problems. ?

Maybe most of the motors and stuff are so new that the aftermarket parts sale is just starting to grow. No need for Brose parts as most of the bikes could be still in it's first owner who just needs to drop the bike to LBS and say "It's not working" and Specialized takes care.

 

[Mteam]

It does seem like the bosch cx gen 4 motor is the most reliable, you don't read of many (in fact I don't think I've read about a single failure) failures of the motor, although I have had a failure of the display which stops the motor from working.

It also seems like the specialized/brose motors are the least reliable, with the shimano e8000 somewhere in between brose and bosch . The new shimano ep8 is too new to comment.

 

[Fast Willy]

My Giant Trance has 4200 miles & the only thing ever replaced are gears, chain,brake pads. The yamaha motor has been flawless.

 

[Gary]

Totally agree!
In the short time I’ve had my Levo I believe the motor (with correct tools) can be dropped out in a matter of minutes. For those of us who enjoy tinkering, a rebuild kit or access to a parts list could be a great option.. Anyway, for the foreseeable, I need to just enjoy my bike and not constantly focus/worry about the impending doom! ???

Last time I had to warranty mine. I actually enjoyed riding my (neglected) road bike so much during the the ten days without a motor I didn't bother fitting the replacement for almost a week. That was almost 2 weeks ago now and I've still only ridden the Eeb twice despite having no car for one of those weeks.
Bikes are guid! Normal bikes are infinitely more reliable and (for me) still slighty more fun.

 

[Mikerb]

Firstly a forum is not a good guide to the reliability of any device for all the reasons explained a bove. It is however a brilliant way to find out what is likely to be a design weakness and deal with it before it gives you problems. Whatever emtb bike you buy it is worth casting a critical eye over it and deciding for yourself what could be improved. Nearly every emtb design I have seen has obvious lack of electrical circuit/component protection most of which can be improved with DIY hacks. Probably the best design I have experienced in respect of that, to date, is my Whyte E180 RS. The charging port is in a much less precarious position than most and is well protected with a rubber cap. The battery connection is a large plug at the base of the battery ...ie it plugs into the battery and has nothing to do with how the battery is fixed into the downtube. It is totally contained within the downtube and so is far better protected than the more typical Bosch battery mounted as the front section of the downtube and sitting on its electrical connector plug. Probably the weakest part of the Whyte set up is the Purion display/mode controller which can be easily damaged in a crash. A Levo type mode controller would be better (but it would have to include a USB connection for the other access functions of the Purion. On the Whyte the penalty paid for the better protected electrics is that the battery is more tricky to remove.
If you remove the number of faults caused by ill fitting/contaminated/ wet electrical connections, you get rid of a lot of the problems reported here.
Another fault area is due to either poor initial build or poor subsequent maintenance, made more prominent by the greater mileage/use emtbs tend to get compared to analogue bikes. A lot of these can be avoided by firstly never assuming an unknown mechanic in a LBS is competent or never makes mistakes. If you know your LBS and rate them highly then great. Personally I check everything ( including on a brand new bike never ridden!) if the bike has been to the LBS....but then I do 99% of the maintenance myself.

 

[Levo77]

So you bought Levo, had a problem and you're now thinking what is the reliability of all new EMTBs. I think you could have just posted this to Specialized section and make a note: "My point is, the EMTB Brose motors are in its infancy."

Bosch CX Gen 4 and zero problems. ?

Maybe most of the motors and stuff are so new that the aftermarket parts sale is just starting to grow. No need for Brose parts as most of the bikes could be still in it's first owner who just needs to drop the bike to LBS and say "It's not working" and Specialized takes care.

Sorry, I’m new to this.. Haven’t been on a forum for years. After some Dutch courage I posted a general query in the general section.

I still think I’m right in thinking that EMTB is in its infancy as a whole.. I believe my motor is from a windscreen wiper set up or something? This may have been around for many years, but not bolted into a mtb and given a fair bit of abuse..

It does seem the Gen4 gives the least bother.
I realise that the forum isn’t the best place to get a
perfect answer..
My Levo hasn’t broken yet. That’s why I said I need to stop fretting and just enjoy it.. It’s S/H and out of warranty because it was what I could afford.. I doubt Specialized would help me out if it was to fail and I guess why should they? I paid my money and I’ll take my chances.. I do love the bike though! ?

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Just remember that scary Gary is really a hot chick who spends most of her time on-line elsewhere telling men how great they are, this is her escape ? via alter-ego !

Wot!!! Scary Gary is a hot chick?!

“My heart grows cold... my memory has just been sold... my angel is a centerfold!”?

 

[The EMF]

Firstly a forum is not a good guide to the reliability of any device for all the reasons explained a bove. It is however a brilliant way to find out what is likely to be a design weakness and deal with it before it gives you problems. Whatever emtb bike you buy it is worth casting a critical eye over it and deciding for yourself what could be improved. Nearly every emtb design I have seen has obvious lack of electrical circuit/component protection most of which can be improved with DIY hacks. Probably the best design I have experienced in respect of that, to date, is my Whyte E180 RS. The charging port is in a much less precarious position than most and is well protected with a rubber cap. The battery connection is a large plug at the base of the battery ...ie it plugs into the battery and has nothing to do with how the battery is fixed into the downtube. It is totally contained within the downtube and so is far better protected than the more typical Bosch battery mounted as the front section of the downtube and sitting on its electrical connector plug. Probably the weakest part of the Whyte set up is the Purion display/mode controller which can be easily damaged in a crash. A Levo type mode controller would be better (but it would have to include a USB connection for the other access functions of the Purion. On the Whyte the penalty paid for the better protected electrics is that the battery is more tricky to remove.
If you remove the number of faults caused by ill fitting/contaminated/ wet electrical connections, you get rid of a lot of the problems reported here.
Another fault area is due to either poor initial build or poor subsequent maintenance, made more prominent by the greater mileage/use emtbs tend to get compared to analogue bikes. A lot of these can be avoided by firstly never assuming an unknown mechanic in a LBS is competent or never makes mistakes. If you know your LBS and rate them highly then great. Personally I check everything ( including on a brand new bike never ridden!) if the bike has been to the LBS....but then I do 99% of the maintenance myself.

Solid post. After all said and done,someone who takes a little bit of time to find out how their expensive pride and joy works will reap dividends when it comes to the inevitable time when stuff begins to fail or need replacing. You don’t have to go blindly into LBS and be fobbed off with replacing stuff you don’t need to..... you will have the knowledge to confidently discuss issues and believe me it makes a massive difference to how things pan out. A friend of mine took his bike for six week free check up and they replaced brake pads front and back for £50......ouch

 

[The Hodge]

Without asking permission !
I wouldn't care but I had pads at home from Uber @ £6.99 ..
Yes it was me ..
However I didn't make a fuss but other than warranty work ( if ever needed) that outlet has shot itself in the foot for any further of my hard earned being spent there ..they might well have thought they scored from me ..but ultimately they will be the biggest losers ..

 

[Seraye]

I have just over 6,000 miles on a Bosch performance motor. It’s a commuter so hasn’t seen advanced trails - but been through LOTS of rain, mud, gravel, rough roads. I think it will be due for a bearing change soon- but works great so far.

 

[Yoak]

I has my Trek Rail since April and the motor has been running smooth.
only problem turned out to be break disk “shavings” clogging to the speed sensor, that led to false speed readings and motor cutting off suddenly.
Parts is another story all together.
Things break more often on an ebike these days. Not enough components are made for the power of an ebike yet unfortunately

 

[steve_sordy]

Without asking permission !
I wouldn't care but I had pads at home from Uber @ £6.99 ..
Yes it was me ..
However I didn't make a fuss but other than warranty work ( if ever needed) that outlet has shot itself in the foot for any further of my hard earned being spent there ..they might well have thought they scored from me ..but ultimately they will be the biggest losers ..

They will only realise they have lost out if you tell them. Otherwise they will still believe they won.

 

[WillN]

I bailed (chickened out) from buying an EMTB. I just couldn't see spending $6 - 8k on something that would be disposable, or spending $1250 every several months to replace the motor. Instead , for the price of 8-10 EMTBs I bought a Tesla Model Y. Hitting a pothole at 75 mph is more of an impact than any EMTB will ever experience (unless if falls off your car). I'm fully confident my Telsa will go 300,000 miles without blinking. Maintenance is every two years. So the engineering of a reliable or user fixable (thanks Gary) EMTB really isn't that much of a challenge. IMHO.
One thing I do know from any kind of motor: if you don't connect the motor (Fuel or electric) to the drive train in a non-self-destructive way, it will never be reliable, will always self-destruct.
My hope is that Elon hanging out with the Tesla/Space X engineers over lunch strike up a conversation about EMTBs. Twenty minutes later they will have a solution.
There are so many things that are like EMTBs: chain saws, motorcycles (already mentioned), outboard motors, snow machines, my almost 50 year old Sawzall, the Skil 77, or the 1952 PorterCable saw I 'borrowed' from my dad 40 years ago - all of these rough continuous use, repairable - reliable.
What we haven't seen, that I think proves my point that EMTBs are an unsolved engineering problem: a bomber EMTB that is a bit too heavy but 100% reliable and indestructible. It would be said to be 'great on fire roads, but forget a steep slope.'
Maybe some bean counter in the cycling industry decided that there's only so many cyclists, but almost all of them are willing to re-purchase the same thing over and over again. If they made a reliable EMTB, they'd (we'd) all buy one - are happy - and future sales would only be to 17 -19 year olds.

 

[The Hodge]

They will only realise they have lost out if you tell them. Otherwise they will still believe they won.

Aaah ..you know that saying " Revenge is a dish best served cold "..
I do have plans ..

 

[rafaellop]

I bailed (chickened out) from buying an EMTB. I just couldn't see spending $6 - 8k on something that would be disposable, or spending $1250 every several months to replace the motor. Instead , for the price of 8-10 EMTBs I bought a Tesla Model Y. Hitting a pothole at 75 mph is more of an impact than any EMTB will ever experience (unless if falls off your car). I'm fully confident my Telsa will go 300,000 miles without blinking. Maintenance is every two years. So the engineering of a reliable or user fixable (thanks Gary) EMTB really isn't that much of a challenge. IMHO.
[...]

So take your Tesla to the woods and shred. Then let us know how reliable it is. Cheers.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

You (Zimmerframe) are one funny fucker ?

Yep he’s funny alright... borderline illegal funny!

Watch yourself, @Zimmerframe is both contagious and deceptive! He pretends to be this clapped-out old man nudging along a zimmer, I dunno... maybe to appease his guilt because he’s far too young to be riding a cheater bike.

If you read too many of his posts, all you’ll be left with is ‘cents of humour.’ I used to be normal once...