EMTB racing thread

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Anyone racing their eBike this year?

I’ll be at the EWS-E with @TheBikePilot, @eebit - can’t wait to see what the very first EWS-E will entail!

 

[Gary]

Just popped in to grab my coat...

 

[R120]

Anyone racing their eBike this year?

I’ll be at the EWS-E with @TheBikePilot, @eebit - can’t wait to see what the very first EWS-E will entail!

Which one you going to?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Which one you going to?

We are doing all three. Valnord, Zermatt and Finale Ligure.

The goal is to just survive the series!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Valberg sorry, not Valnord.

 

[73Steff]

Excellent ?
I’m signed up for Zermatt & Finale......with a few Southern Enduros to get my eye in?

 

[ImSundee]

I'm planning to hopefully do the Swinley one in September, but depending on how the year goes I might do a few others in the UK all with the hope of finishing.

I do wonder how much of a disadvantage the Levo SL will be on the emtb only stages, as they seem to be uphill ones

 

[73Steff]

From racing a few southern enduro’s on eBikes last year I’ll be riding the SL this year as I think the handling and agility will be an advantage, but those stages tend to be steeper. E-EWS will need a Levo for purely a range standpoint.

 

[Deleted member 4988]

Naughty Northumbrian
Ard Dales
Ard Moors
Ask Valley Enduro
Boltby Bash
Northern Downhill's

 

[ImSundee]

From racing a few southern enduro’s on eBikes last year I’ll be riding the SL this year as I think the handling and agility will be an advantage, but those stages tend to be steeper.

Do you know how much riding is needed to complete a Southern Enduro? In distance and climbing, I want to make sure I can do the distance comfortably before entering.

 

[wepn]

• There will be no technical restrictions on batteries etc as we believe technology needs maximum opportunity to innovate and grow and it’s already moving at a very fast rate
• All bikes must be limited to EU regulations for e-bike/pedelec (25kmph)

No technical restrictions on batteries seems to be a straightforward & obvious policy direction in the rules & regulations. That will presumably encourage teams, especially those linked to manufacturers, to roll out the latest battery technologies and chemistries.

I couldn’t see any mention of motor torque limitations.

Power to weight and maximum torque will be key and so it’s not difficult to imagine that EWS-E will both propel the demand for and showcase new technologies - with the leanest & most skilled riders - retired pros as well as a new breed.

The 25 km/h EU limit is probably not unexpected although I think a 32 km/h US limit would have been wiser to unify off-road race rules worldwide. Without the US, is it really a ‘World Series’?

Maybe that will leave room for other competing organising bodies to introduce a true World Series with US friendly limits? S-Pedelec 48 km/h races will happen as will other disciplines no doubt. Maybe something else is in the works? Maybe fast singletrack who knows?

There are a lot manufacturer sponsored or factory teams but no Specialized.

Meet the official teams of the 2020 Enduro World Series | 24 February 2020

https://admin.enduroworldseries.com/uploads/Rulebook 2020_NP.pdf

 

[Slowroller]

If who wins on what bike with what motor begins to matter, I'm curious as to how far the manufacturers will push power and torque while still claiming it's a 250w motor with a straight face.

 

[wepn]

If who wins on what bike with what motor begins to matter, I'm curious as to how far the manufacturers will push power and torque while still claiming it's a 250w motor with a straight face.

As far as possible would be my hope. The 250W limit is so arbitrarily low that it’d be difficult to keep a straight face if you’re a US manufacturer. Never fear FIM is here…If they get it together, up their game & create something special.

 

[Robin Grant]

RE: the EWS-E rules, from the old Shimano EP8 thread:

Absolutely NOTHING in there about max torque or max output wattage. so in theory you could run a 120NM, 920wmax bike with a massive battery so long as it was attached to the bike and use it in full boost for every stage. so long as it was capped at a max of 25kmh assistance.
Running against a Shimano motor (70NM) or even a 90NM Jesus motor you'd lose out by 10s of seconds on the climbing stages. eg. game over.

And above...

I couldn’t see any mention of motor torque limitations.

So in theory you could use one of these which has a Bafang Ultra Max motor with 1600W peak power and 160NM torque, as long as you limited it to 25kmh (and had 2 spare batteries):

 

[STATO]

The 25 km/h EU limit is probably not unexpected although I think a 32 km/h US limit would have been wiser to unify off-road race rules worldwide. Without the US, is it really a ‘World Series’?

But that would leave the bike illegal in every other race in 'the world', given they have to ride the bike on public roads and trails between the closed stages. Im sure the US will set up their own 'world series' where they dont include any other participants

 

[b45her]

well it says the rules follow European regulations which means 25km/h and max continuous output of 250 watts.
even though motors claim they output 560/750watts etc that is the starting torque, all rotating machines (motors) have a big energy spike when starting to get themselves moving then quickly settle down when they reach their operating speed.

 

[B1rdie]

The races shall have 6-7 stages with 1 very short very steep technical climb...
So they plan to restrict the most fun part of ebiking. It is surely going ti be very interesting for the racers only.

 

[GrahamPaul]

The races shall have 6-7 stages with 1 very short very steep technical climb...
So they plan to restrict the most fun part of ebiking. It is surely going ti be very interesting for the racers only.

Maybe the powers that be will liven it up a bit by making slick tyres mandatory? That'll make it more fun for spectators...

 

[STATO]

The races shall have 6-7 stages with 1 very short very steep technical climb...
So they plan to restrict the most fun part of ebiking. It is surely going ti be very interesting for the racers only.

1 technical uphill only stage, rest of the stages can include as much technical uphill as downhill (opposed to max 10% of uphill per stage rule of normal EWS). Liason times are also intended to be tight so id guess those will be cut from standard EWS. 4 hrs of riding and 3000m climbing per day.

 

[R120]

From what I have seen, at least in the UK, the bike isn't really a huge factor, its pretty clear the riders with the best technical ability win - that's primarily because the races, are run on the same courses as the normal bikes ride. Most people seem to run them derestricted too.

I can only see that a course with a long fireroad climb or similar is going to bring the motor into the equation.

If they are creating courses with technical uphill trails, then again I dont see overall motor power being an issues, as I dont know anyone who cranks the bike up to turbo for this kind of riding as you simply dont have the control you need in higher power modes.

 

[STATO]

From what I have seen, at least in the UK, the bike isn't really a huge factor, its pretty clear the riders with the best technical ability win - that's primarily because the races, are run on the same courses as the normal bikes ride. Most people seem to run them derestricted too.

I can only see that a course with a long fireroad climb or similar is going to bring the motor into the equation.

If they are creating courses with technical uphill trails, then again I dont see overall motor power being an issues, as I dont know anyone who cranks the bike up to turbo for this kind of riding as you simply dont have the control you need in higher power modes.

Running a race with derestricted bikes is a bit sketchy, we already had a pretty high profile case in the UK where a promoter and marshal were at risk of jail time for failing to safely manage spectators. Cant imagine allowing illegal 'vehicles' to use the forest would go down well, and if they injure someone...? I wouldnt want to volunteer to marshal those events.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

It'll be interesting to see if the benefits of the more powerful motor are enough on the uphill stages

From what I have seen, at least in the UK, the bike isn't really a huge factor, its pretty clear the riders with the best technical ability win

I rode with a pro last week. He climbed stuff (crazy huge boulders) that I had zero chance of clearing regardless of motor power.

 

[R120]

It'll be interesting to see if the benefits of the more powerful motor are enough on the uphill stages

I rode with a pro last week. He climbed stuff (crazy huge boulders) that I had zero chance of clearing regardless of motor power.

Rob, I keep telling you, I am not really a pro, I just get a bit of free stuff from Decathlon

 

[Zimmerframe]

I rode with a pro shop lifter last week. He climbed stuff (crazy huge boulders) that I had zero chance of clearing regardless of motor power.

Is that better @R120 ?

 

[Slowroller]

It'll be interesting to see if the benefits of the more powerful motor are enough on the uphill stages

It won't be as much of an advantage in an Enduro unless it helps you to recover more in the transfers. In an XC race where you win or lose on the climbs, more power will be a big factor.

well it says the rules follow European regulations which means 25km/h and max continuous output of 250 watts.

There aren't specs for testing the "max continous output" Which is why we have motors on the market like the TQ which are 250w in the Haibike, or 250/500/920w in the M1 Spitzing.

 

[b45her]

It won't be as much of an advantage in an Enduro unless it helps you to recover more in the transfers. In an XC race where you win or lose on the climbs, more power will be a big factor.



There aren't specs for testing the "max continous output" Which is why we have motors on the market like the TQ which are 250w in the Haibike, or 250/500/920w in the M1 Spitzing.

if the motor produces more than 250 watts it's not an ebike by legal definition. its an electric motorcycle.

 

[Gary]

if the motor produces more than 250 watts it's not an ebike by legal definition. its an electric motorcycle.

You do know your CX020 produces double that, eh?

 

[Boris]

You do know your CX020 produces double that, eh?

More than double

 

[Gary]

Sorry. I'd left my pedantasaurus on the shelf at home

 

[R120]

Is it next to your icouldntgiveafuckinary?