EMTB high budget... buy now or wait till end of 2019?

[EMTBehave]

New member here so hello and hope you are all doing well! I am in the lucky situation where my workplace will pay half of any EMTB purchase (they will contribute up to 5000EUR, so a 10000EUR bike max). This means that I have the luxury of making a significant EMTB purchase, though of course I do not want to spend more than I need to.

So far my front runners are:

• YT Decoy CF Pro - 5000 EUR - Seems like amazing value and initial tests are very positive.
• Canyon Spectral ON 9.0 - 5500 EUR - Good value, long warranty and well reviewed.

Now as much as I want one, this can not be considered an "urgent" purchase. So my questions are:

1. Of the YT and the Canyon, which looks like a better buy? Any others I should seriously consider that match either of these for performance and value?
2. Is it worth holding off to the end of 2019... will there be new technology arriving that will make waiting worthwhile considering I am aiming to keep the bike for 5+ years?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Cheers,

EMTBEhave.

 

[R120]

The technology is moving very fast at the moment, for me I would hold off for a bit as there are a lot of new and updated bikes coming out this year, including if rumours are true the new Bosch motor.

If I was in the market now I would be looking at bike that has the ability to run a larger battery - of the two you mentioned the YT has that.

 

[OlaGB]

That YT chose to go for the E8000, tells me there no huuge new motor invention coming very soon. Everything else on that bike is so new tech, which tells me they have cooperated very close with the big companies..

Waiting until late 2019, thats a full season, which needs to be taken into consideration as well.
And buyng the best bike late 2019, means the great bikes early 2020 will make the late 2019 bike old news ?
No way`s to win that bet in my opinion.

 

[EMTBehave]

The technology is moving very fast at the moment, for me I would hold off for a bit as there are a lot of new and updated bikes coming out this year, including if rumours are true the new Bosch motor.

If I was in the market now I would be looking at bike that has the ability to run a larger battery - of the two you mentioned the YT has that.

Hi 120 thanks for the feedback... I agree that the option of a larger battery is essential as I live in Switzerland so there are many thousands of KM of ranges to explore. I read YT are bringing out a 700kw at a cut price to owners which would be awesome.

I also read that on this site new motors were coming out so this is why I am seriously considering holding fire for a while. However, I do hear amazing things about the Shimano E8000 so I am really wondering how much better can motors get other than slightly lighter and smaller. After all, I really think that due to technology and physics limitations they are not going to reduce in size and weight 'so' significantly (but please correct me if I am wrong).

To me the biggest benefits of new tech would seem to be battery-related such as fast charging, but I guess I shall have to really keep an eye on the news sites and stay updated.

 

[EMTBehave]

That YT chose to go for the E8000, tells me there no huuge new motor invention coming very soon. Everything else on that bike is so new tech, which tells me they have cooperated very close with the big companies..

Waiting until late 2019, thats a full season, which needs to be taken into consideration as well.
And buyng the best bike late 2019, means the great bikes early 2020 will make the late 2019 bike old news ?
No way`s to win that bet in my opinion.

Yeah OlaGB you have a fair point and I was also thinking that YT are not going to choose a motor that will soon be replaced or that was inferior... the E8000 really seems to represent the cutting edge of the more 'natural feeling' EMTB performance.

I wonder if they will be able to support fast charging on the bikes with a power pack upgrade...

 

[OlaGB]

Also remember that the extra 200wh, is not all available for use.
A lithium battery is limited for use, so it leaves 20% charge (or so), to not fully drain the battery.
If you increase the total capasity with 100%, you will only get to use 80-85% of the extra capasity.

I chose a bike with external battery for this reason, as i often ride in alot of elevation. Easier to carry an optional battery due to size, alot more capasity in dual battery than a single larger one, but i can choose if i need the extra capasity or not for the ride i plan to do.
I can also leave the extra weight in the car, if i ride around the car for example.

These are all individual choices, based on spesific needs. But they need to be considered.

 

[EMTBehave]

Also remember that the extra 200wh, is not all available for use.
A lithium battery is limited for use, so it leaves 20% charge (or so), to not fully drain the battery.
If you increase the total capasity with 100%, you will only get to use 80-85% of the extra capasity.

I chose a bike with external battery for this reason, as i often ride in alot of elevation. Easier to carry an optional battery due to size, alot more capasity in dual battery than a single larger one, but i can choose if i need the extra capasity or not for the ride i plan to do.
I can also leave the extra weight in the car, if i ride around the car for example.

These are all individual choices, based on spesific needs. But they need to be considered.

The YT Decoy has a removable "semi-internal" battery, just undo a couple of screws and you can then pop in an extra one.

 

[EMTBehave]

Any more opinions please guys?

 

[Lad]

How about adding Norco Sight VLT GX to your list?

 

[andykent]

What do you want to do with the bike? Where are you going to be riding? Singletrail?

 

[EMTBehave]

How about adding Norco Sight VLT GX to your list?

I will check it out, thanks.

EDIT - Battery is non-removeable except at the dealer, this is a HUGE no-no. Being able to stick in a spare battery is in my view is simply essential.

What do you want to do with the bike? Where are you going to be riding? Singletrail?

I want a good all-rounder that I can tour around on through the varied Swiss countryside and ride trails and uphill/downhill etc. With the modern 150mm travel bikes they seem to fit these criteria.

 

[ggx]

Holding time means no riding , no fun. Everything is changing and moving fast this days. Go for it. Trying some models is a good starting point. Start to be racional and at the end let your heart decide.

 

[R120]

The reason I suggest waiting is we are on the cusp of seeing bigger batteries becoming the norm, and more and more bikes coming with 600-700wh batteries.

 

[Jaygam]

Ducati mig rr?

 

[Interpaul]

@EMTBehave Buy the bike now and enjoy summer riding in the Alps, I was in Engelberg (my 'local' ski area) last summer MTBing and it was just awesome, so don't wait and get out doing hut to hut on the Wanderweg.

 

[dirt huffer]

I could see an (XTR) E9000 coming out, but i think E8000 will stay the say for sometime. Shimano is historically slow to release new products.

I might take a look at Commencal Meta Power if you're considering the Canyon. Their customer service is way better and they ship their bikes to customers with hardly any wait time.

 

[EMTBehave]

Holding time means no riding , no fun. Everything is changing and moving fast this days. Go for it. Trying some models is a good starting point. Start to be racional and at the end let your heart decide.

Usually I would agree, but it is not always sensible to apply this logic if there are about to be significant technological changes. if I buy now then in 4 months a new generation of motor is released i would regret it considering how long I intend to keep the bike. SO I want to be sure that's not the case before I make my decision.

The reason I suggest waiting is we are on the cusp of seeing bigger batteries becoming the norm, and more and more bikes coming with 600-700wh batteries.

The YT will soon have bigger 700wh batteries coming soon and offered at a special price to reent buyers (according to their site) so that shouldn't be a problem if I buy now.

I could see an (XTR) E9000 coming out, but i think E8000 will stay the say for sometime. Shimano is historically slow to release new products.

I might take a look at Commencal Meta Power if you're considering the Canyon. Their customer service is way better and they ship their bikes to customers with hardly any wait time.

The Commencal has RockShox (I would much prefer Fox Factory) and SRAM (not very great in terms of dealership and repair in Switzerland vs Shimano) so unfortunately it's not on my list.

 

[dirt huffer]

The YT will soon have bigger 700wh batteries coming soon and offered at a special price to reent buyers (according to their site) so that shouldn't be a problem if I buy now.


The Commencal has RockShox (I would much prefer Fox Factory) and SRAM (not very great in terms of dealership and repair in Switzerland vs Shimano) so unfortunately it's not on my list.

It sounds like the YT would be a good fit for you... since they'll have a higher capacity battery in the near future and their customer service isn't horrendous like Canyon

I personally don't believe Solid State batteries will be here anytime soon - even though some disagree, and I don't think there isn't much advantage to the 18650 vs 21700 size cells besides packaging. But this is just my opinion, and a lot of people might not agree.... but no one has a crystal ball here

 

[lookhear]

I would disagree with some here that technology is moving fast. The motors can only get slightly lighter and more efficient. Even as it is, the choices being made between ebikes is less about the motor/battery and more about the actual geometry, amount of travel and importantly price point vs components.
(Sure 500wh vs 700wh is a choice. But that's a size thing rather than a new tech thing. I would personally prefer a lighter 250wh battery as I session bike parks)

Technology shouldn't be a deciding factor, much like with regular analogue MTBs.
Electric motor tech is not about to go through a whole new revolution.
Batteries will only progress with small increments. Until you can put a hydrogen fuel cell into a bike, it will be small steps forward.

All you will see is more manufacturers producing eMtbs, like YT.
Which is great! More travel/geometry/component options to choose from.
Example:
The YT is heavier than a Levo (carbon expert/sworks) and uses a less powerful motor and a non-integrated battery.
But it's 165mm rear travel and 160mm upfront, slightly slacker, looks great and is cheaper.
It's technically behind the Levo in technology, yet it's the next big thing. Because of its travel/geometry/looks, not because of its tech.

So the point really is, pick a bike based on what you want to ride in terms of geometry and travel.
Like you would with any normal analogue bike. There is too much emphasis on technology when it's really all very similar stuff, just packaged as only the MTB industry knows how to.

Enduro/Big DH hits, look at Kenevo, Haibike Xduro, Nicolai Eboxx ,maybe YT etc
Enduro/Trail and some jumps Levo, Giant Trance e, YT, Canyon.
XC - why bother, but maybe Stance, Canyon etc
Tech alone: GreyP - but really who is actually going to buy that?

Hopefully soon we'll see Santa Cruz bring out an ebike as well. (#howtostartarumour)

 

[Stringbean]

Wait till June and pick up a s works Levo when they start blowing them out less 30%

 

[Fivetones]

Wait till June and pick up a s works Levo when they start blowing them out less 30%

None left here in the UK.

As for waiting, let’s face it if you wait you miss the summer. Will any major step forward (like Levo, though you could argue it’s an increment) come without problems too?

 

[dirt huffer]

None left here in the UK.

As for waiting, let’s face it if you wait you miss the summer. Will any major step forward (like Levo, though you could argue it’s an increment) come without problems too?

I could only argue waiting if someone where really considering a Levo. The only thing i can see in the immediate future is the '19 issues getting sorted out for 2020. And eventually the Kenevo will get redesigned for the newest Brose motor.

Shimano on the other hand needs to come out with more charging options... fast charge, DC travel charger... and make improve their walk assist

 

[steve_sordy]

If it is a good bike now and you get loads of fun from it, then it will still be a good bike in five years time if you maintain it. OK, yes, newer bikes will have come out that may be in some way superior to your bike (or just more fashionable?). But your bike is exactly the same, therefore still good.

From what I have seen and heard on this Forum, it doesn't look as though big developments in motors or batteries are due out anytime soon, except maybe Bosch (so don't get a bike with a Bosch motor!) The rest will be tweaks to geometry and minor upgrades to finishing kit (all of which you can change as your current stuff wears out).

With the exception of the frame, you can change pretty much everything else on the bike, so I wouldn't worry about them. For an emtb the motor and battery are currently as much a non-upgrade item as the frame (maybe free software upgrades are an exception too). So just get what is considered to be very good now and stick with it.

 

[EMTBehave]

You're right guys tech won't change too much. The only thing is that I think lack of fast charging will be an issue on weekend trips and I don't think the YT has that capability? Or can they theoretically add it later?

 

[R120]

What we are going to be seeing are more refined motors, and critically better software that manages the performance of the motor, especially maximising the natural feeling - the end goal really is an EMTB that feels like you are riding a normal bike in terms of peddling experience, but with assistance, and its that, not power gains (as others have mentioned we really don't need more powerful motors that the existing ones) that we will see improving on the newer motors.

I agree that there will always be something newer and better round the corner, but it will be interesting to see what the new Bosch is like.

 

[R120]

You're right guys tech won't change too much. The only thing is that I think lack of fast charging will be an issue on weekend trips and I don't think the YT has that capability? Or can they theoretically add it later?

Does the YT use the stock Shimano charger? I doubt it as battery is bespoke. Shimano has just released a smaller ("portable") charger, but it only works with their batteries - Apparently will charge 504wh to 80% in 2 hours.

Its called the EC -E8004:

EC-E8004

 

[dirt huffer]

You're right guys tech won't change too much. The only thing is that I think lack of fast charging will be an issue on weekend trips and I don't think the YT has that capability? Or can they theoretically add it later?

All Shimano would have to do is come out with higher amp charger and maybe a software update so the BMS doesn't freak out. Might want to call a YT rep and ask about what charger they use

I plan on doing some road trips with my bike this summer and bought a 600w sin wave inverter for my car to plug in my charger while driving. Some people on here use a sine wave generator - there's a recent thread somewhere on here.

 

[Fivetones]

Does the YT use the stock Shimano charger? I doubt it as battery is bespoke. Shimano has just released a smaller ("portable") charger, but it only works with their batteries - Apparently will charge 504wh to 80% in 2 hours.

Its called the EC -E8004:

EC-E8004

A few other bits of news too. I missed this at the time.

More 12-speed kit from Shimano (but it’s not a groupset)

 

[galaga187]

The YT Decoy has a removable "semi-internal" battery, just undo a couple of screws and you can then pop in an extra one.

How long is the battery and would it be practical to carry? The levo 2019 is too long in my opinion (I know Rob managed to cram one into a evoc pack).

 

[Quantock Explorer]

Buy now, now, now!

Three reasons:

1) Businesses can by fickle, your employer might change their policy, so don't miss out on this great offer.
2) There will always be something better around the corner, but these two bikes are already amazing. Buy now and you will be a year nearer to buying your 2nd e-bike, and just think how good that one will be.
3) It's spring, don't miss out on a whole summer's worth of riding to get something slightly more bling.

Don't look back, head for the sunset on your shiny new (half price) e-bike.

Enjoy!!!!!!