eMTB, DH time is slower than reg mtb, need some tips

[Intermtb]

Been riding since 2009, I like trail bike, nimble, good climber, pick my line on DH.
I am fairly fast on the DH, small jumps and drops, nothing crazy.
my reg bike is evil following, weighs 29 lbs.
I just got my 1st real emtb, only been 2 weeks, it is motobecane e27plus 140mm travel both f/r, weighs 49.5 lbs with 27.5x2.8 tires. I tried these 2.8 tires, did not really like them.
I swapped to 29er front 2.5 minion DHF and 27.5x2.35 rear vittoria mota, all tubeless and put pike fork replacing revelation, weighs under 49 lbs now.

I notice my DH run with emtb is much slower, especially twisty sections. I would overshot in many corners. I have this habit of braking just before a corner with my following, did not work well with emtb. I need to brake way before the corner, losing so much speed and exit speed is much slower. with evil following I could just carve the corner with faster exit speed. I simply could not keep up with my mate anymore on DH, unless I am on my evil following.

I am not blaming the emtb, the bike is great as is, I just need to learn about the different handling.

I know we can't get away from the fact that emtb is about 20lbs heavier, feel sluggish, more monster truck rather than picking lines.

on climbing....oh well ebike makes climbing great again.

I already crashed hard twice on emtb, just poor handling on my part, 1st one late turn hit a tree straight on, 2nd one on fast section there is a short step like climb with a bit of ramp about 2 ft, I lifted the front end but fail to lift it high enough (front too heavy), front wheel hit the square edge then boom, I was flying. I have ridden this feature thousands time (OK maybe hundreds), never crash there before.

Any tips appreciated to get my DH speed back, right now I feel like I am sacrificing DH quality a lot.

 

[#lazy]

Your bike is a trail bike and will never compete with a DH bike down a DH track ! You could see if it will handle bigger forks and shock but that’s expensive so I would just except defeat and enjoy the ride ?
Ps as you said you brake late so brake earlier and get on the pedals , if you try too hard though you will stack it again !

 

[Intermtb]

Your bike is a trail bike and will never compete with a DH bike down a DH track ! You could see if it will handle bigger forks and shock but that’s expensive so I would just except defeat and enjoy the ride ?
Ps as you said you brake late so brake earlier and get on the pedals , if you try too hard though you will stack it again !

I am not comparing trail vs DH bike. also no mention of any DH track, just regular trail DH sections.

both bikes are trail, emtb vs reg mtb. so your suggestion is accept the defeat?
I would like to learn more about emtb handling on DH, as I am not getting the speed I usually get on reg mtb, or at least closer then I'd be happy.

 

[#lazy]

Sorry I misunderstood , not sure on any tips as only had the ebike a few months but it’s faster on the DH sections that my transition patrol was ! An old Mx saying is “ slow down to go fast “ , which can be used in mtbing . Also use the extra weight on the down slopes to gain speed and flow !
Ps never give up ?

 

[Gary]

Practice...


No. No...


Practice MOAR than that!





hope this advice helps?

 

[Intermtb]

Sorry I misunderstood , not sure on any tips as only had the ebike a few months but it’s faster on the DH sections that my transition patrol was ! An old Mx saying is “ slow down to go fast “ , which can be used in mtbing . Also use the extra weight on the down slopes to gain speed and flow !
Ps never give up ?

hmm interesting, your DH time is faster on emtb vs transition patrol. even on twisty sections?
my biggest issue is cornering, I'd lose too much speed.

yes Gary, Practice practice practice...I just have to slow down more, can't be aggressive like on reg MTB, at least for now.

 

[Gary]

My Emtb is 170mm/160mm and Enduro bike is 170/165mm. Geometry and set-up between the two is pretty similar. Similar builds, Same control set-ups, Same tyres, Same angles etc, but the Eeb has 15mm longer reach, 15mm longer stays and 15mm higher BB. making it more stable (weight and wheelbase), but not corner quite so well (higher BB)

On it. (As in me being on form) and in similar conditions I do pretty much exactly the same times DH on both. (unless the descent includes a pedally bit for the Eeb to *cheat* )

Takes a couple of minutes to adjust between each bike when I switch but once i've hit a few corners etc. it's all cool.

 

[B1rdie]

I have had a motobecane phantom once and It did not feel nearly as confidence inspiring on the downhills as any other brand bikes that I’ve had. Maybe the reason you are going slower is due to the all around difference of the bikes.
Also, on most of the singletrack downhill I will ride faster even on the hardtail. The ebike does better on more open and fast, my spectral weighs 23 kilos and it really makes a huge difference on tight twisting tracks.
Riding XC tracks that include flats and climbs is my prefered use for the ebike, also reaching trails that stay a long ride away is sweet.
If I was going to ride focused on DH fun only, the ebike would not be first choice.

 

[RickBullotta]

Short answer is "it depends". Suspension design and suspension setup matter a lot. I ended up swapping out the stock Fox DPX2 and Fox 36 on my Pivot Shuttle for an X2 and a Trust Shout because I wanted better performance in rocky/rooty gnar, chattery turns, and general technical descending (not huge drops). A few things affect your DH times on your eMTB that you need to consider:

- The extra weight is going to make the bike want to push through turns more than you're probably used to. Suspension setup and being aggressive on weighting the front can help

- Motor drag is largely unavoidable, and when the bike gets past the boost cutoff, the drag becomes a factor. For that reason alone, you may never be able to match your regular bike DH times even with equivalent suspension and bike setup

- Obviously it also depends how much pedaling is required (or beneficial) on a specific track. The more pedaling, the faster my Shuttle is vs my Hightower. Duh.

In my case, my Pivot Shuttle is currently a bit more dialed in than my Santa Cruz Hightower and has "proper" DH tires on it, so my times are competitive and sometimes faster, though not always.

 

[Pdoz]

Drill some holes in your mates frame, squirt in about 20 lb of ballast , then watch him frk up. Think about what he's doing wrong and then learn. Or go ride with a fast emtb rider?

Oh, and get your mate to video you riding so we can " help"

 

[Intermtb]

Short answer is "it depends". Suspension design and suspension setup matter a lot. I ended up swapping out the stock Fox DPX2 and Fox 36 on my Pivot Shuttle for an X2 and a Trust Shout because I wanted better performance in rocky/rooty gnar, chattery turns, and general technical descending (not huge drops). A few things affect your DH times on your eMTB that you need to consider:

- The extra weight is going to make the bike want to push through turns more than you're probably used to. Suspension setup and being aggressive on weighting the front can help

- Motor drag is largely unavoidable, and when the bike gets past the boost cutoff, the drag becomes a factor. For that reason alone, you may never be able to match your regular bike DH times even with equivalent suspension and bike setup

- Obviously it also depends how much pedaling is required (or beneficial) on a specific track. The more pedaling, the faster my Shuttle is vs my Hightower. Duh.

In my case, my Pivot Shuttle is currently a bit more dialed in than my Santa Cruz Hightower and has "proper" DH tires on it, so my times are competitive and sometimes faster, though not always.

thanks mate. makes sense. I just need to re-learn the technic and get used to it.
I put a pike to replace revelation, much better at front.
twisty single track DH is my main issue, just could not get the speed that I want. the bike always wants to go straight, heavy steering at speed, very stable on straight line, drops and jumps, love that.

I demoed cannondale moterro 160mm before, same thing, sluggish on turn, but was great everywhere else.

 

[RickBullotta]

thanks mate. makes sense. I just need to re-learn the technic and get used to it.
I put a pike to replace revelation, much better at front.
twisty single track DH is my main issue, just could not get the speed that I want. the bike always wants to go straight, heavy steering at speed, very stable on straight line, drops and jumps, love that.

I demoed cannondale moterro 160mm before, same thing, sluggish on turn, but was great everywhere else.

Try getting a bit more out in front of the bike. It’s unnerving if you’re not used to it, but it helps it through the turns. I also find that since it’s easier to get back up to speed after braking on the eMTB I go deeper into turns, get on the binders hard, and pull out under power. Pretend you’re an F1 car.

 

[jwrx]

i have a SB140, and a Levo Expert. On dh trails that have NO pedally sections at all, im significantly faster with my manual as recorded by strava. For the first few runs, after that fatigue sets in, and my ebike gets better timing.
Even though my manual/ebike have almost identical components (both have 160 lyrik upfront, 140 rear shocks, 27.5) The extra weight of the ebike means i lose time on the corners and i dont get as much pop/air over rooty sections

My suggestion is...dont do manual followed by ebike then back to manual rides....do a month of nothing but ebike rides to get used to the heavier weight and diffrent braking style of the ebike.

Recently my ebike went in for some warranty work, so i road manual only for 2 months...when i got the ebike back..it was like riding a pig....overshooting corners, understeering, silly mistakes...took me 2 weeks to get back in tune

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

I'm slower on my levo DH than my previous intense primer and it's nearly double the weight. But I'm able to ride at 100% on more DH runs in one ride. So whilst not as fast I'm doing more. That's the compromise. Hoping with the SL is the best of both worlds...

 

[Intermtb]

Thanks guys. yes changing bike between ebike and non ebike really mess up my riding on ebike.
can't have everything, unfortunately the DH part is negatively effected.
still no regret for me, still enjoying riding my ebike. i just did epic 25 miles ride on ebike, so much fun.

 

[kntr]

I smoke my DH times on my ebike.

 

[B1rdie]

I use to stop at the top for a smoke before the downhill and then I don’t care so much about time.

 

[DaveyPetey]

Well it's gotta be much, much heavier for starters. Trying to whip a 50lb bike through the twisties is gonna be slower.