Ebike suggestion

[RJUK]

Battery removal and refitting on the latest E160 is simple.....not that it was that difficult on previous models with the right technique.
Adding a Kiox 300 is a 10 minute job.........plug and play. The kit includes a bracket that enables you to fit the mount out in front of the bars or behind the bars alongside the stem. The only decision you need to make when buying the retrofit kit is which of those 2 positions you prefer and then specify whether the 2 cable connections are on the bottom of the Kiox display ( for mounting in front of the bars) or the top of the display ( for mounting alongside the stem). So...mount the bracket, and the mount, click in the Kiox 300. Then pull the cable from the LED Remote and plug it into either socket on the Kiox 300, and use the new short cable supplied in the kit to plug into the other socket on the Kiox 300 and the other end into the LED Remote. Done. Run Flow. The beauty of the system is that for any reason you do not want the Kiox 300 for a particular ride, you just unclick it from its mount........or if you want to remove it completely for whatever reason , that is easy as well. The only thing you might want consider is adding a tether to the Kiox 300.

Wow thanks. Really useful post.

How is the Bosch system in the E160? Any rattles?

 

[Mikerb]

Wow thanks. Really useful post.

How is the Bosch system in the E160? Any rattles?

no rattles on my E180 or E160RSX that I notice above general trail chatter.

 

[RJUK]

no rattles on my E180 or E160RSX that I notice above general trail chatter.

And which do you prefer, the 180 or 160?

 

[irie]

For general use I would choose the E160RSX

 

[Mikerb]

And which do you prefer, the 180 or 160?

Very different bikes. The E180RS is pretty much pure Enduro so is happiest blasting downhill and the rougher the better. The suspension platform is like a magic carpet...it just soaks up everything. I guess it would also be at home on Bike Park jump trails, but that is not my type of riding so never tried it. Mine is the 2020 model so no idea if the latest iteration is different. Climbing is not really its forte and on more general trails it almost feels as if it is bored!! By contrast the E160 feels frisky, always wanting to be pushed faster. It climbs really well and is very stable downhill. It is much more manoevrable than the E180 especially on forest slalom runs through the trees. It feels like the weight is perfectly balanced front to back.
For me, rides like CutGate in the Peak District and up and over the Brecon Beacons or Snowdonia etc is where I would choose to ride the E180.........ie rocky terrain and descents. For the majority of my riding I would choose the E160. If I had to chose between them for a new bike it would definitely be the E160RSX.

 

[RJUK]

Very different bikes. The E180RS is pretty much pure Enduro so is happiest blasting downhill and the rougher the better. The suspension platform is like a magic carpet...it just soaks up everything. I guess it would also be at home on Bike Park jump trails, but that is not my type of riding so never tried it. Mine is the 2020 model so no idea if the latest iteration is different. Climbing is not really its forte and on more general trails it almost feels as if it is bored!! By contrast the E160 feels frisky, always wanting to be pushed faster. It climbs really well and is very stable downhill. It is much more manoevrable than the E180 especially on forest slalom runs through the trees. It feels like the weight is perfectly balanced front to back.
For me, rides like CutGate in the Peak District and up and over the Brecon Beacons or Snowdonia etc is where I would choose to ride the E180.........ie rocky terrain and descents. For the majority of my riding I would choose the E160. If I had to chose between them for a new bike it would definitely be the E160RSX.

Amazing, thanks for the feedback.

Do people tend to upgrade the rear shocks on these? I'm kinda surprised it doesn't have an X2 to match the 38.

The only thing making me think twice is the weight. And I'd probably have liked carbon. I'm not sure where all the weight is though... Carbon doesn't usually save 3+ kilos....?

 

[Tekmotiv]

If you are wanting an awesome bike with low weight, look also at the Fantic 1.6 Carbon Race. Same motor as Specialized (90nm Brose S Mag ) 720 battery Carbon wheels/ frame/ bars and wireless AXS groupset. Weight is brilliant at around 21kg with battery. Fantic have just made a version of this for Audi. Talk to us if you would like a test ride, we have stock. These ride absolutely brilliantly. Cyclescheme easy enough as well

 

[beanzz]

Does that count as self promotion/ad

 

[Tekmotiv]

OP was asking about light weight but full power and high spec which is what that model offers, its another choice that's all

 

[RJUK]

Not heard of this brand before. Price?

 

[Tekmotiv]

Currently that model is £7299 but there are ways to reduce that. I won't put a link on here but google fantic.com and you will find it. They are really lovely bikes, theres an Audi E-Tron Spec version just released and they also make some variants of their models for Yamaha . There is also a cheaper Carbon frame 1.7 travel from about 6k , this has same motor and battery but does without the Carbon wheel set/ bars so of course its a bit heavier.

 

[Tekmotiv]

We sell bikes with Brose, Bosch and Shimano Motors and they all work well. Brose S Mag is the punchiest and quietest on most frame sets, though it does seem to vary. Bosch is great, a touch noisier but really smooth. Shimano, slightly noisier, more reactive to your input so while the other two kick in straight away the Shimano tends to give more when you put more in yourself. All absolutely do the job and we have not had a customer motor fail from any brand in the last two years, with one exception where a client hit a rock properly. So I would say just find a bike you like the feel of and don't worry too much about the motor brand. Try perhaps to ride a few options back to back.

 

[billium]

If Brose did announce a better motor version in the next few weeks then given the size of the company (see below) it would almost certainly take a long time to filter down into saleable eBikes.

Electric motors and drives - Products - Brose Fahrzeugteile

Brose is the world’s fourth-largest family-owned automotive supplier. The company develops and produces mechatronic systems for vehicle doors and seats as well as electric motors, drives and electronics, among others for steering, brakes, transmissions and engine cooling.

www.brose.com

Good point.
Actually I would settle for them allowing approved motor repair shops to 'upgrade' new motors ( adding the seals that should have been fitted in the factory) without losing the warranty. Sure it would cost me a couple of hundred but at least I would not have to worry about every puddle I ride through

 

[RJUK]

Good point.
Actually I would settle for them allowing approved motor repair shops to 'upgrade' new motors ( adding the seals that should have been fitted in the factory) without losing the warranty. Sure it would cost me a couple of hundred but at least I would not have to worry about every puddle I ride through

Are Brise likely to announce a new motor soon, or is that just speculation?

What's the warranty on the current motors? 4 years? Could you just get the seals added once the warranty is up? And can Brise motors be serviced/repaired or are they essentially scrap once they die?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Are Brise likely to announce a new motor soon, or is that just speculation?

What's the warranty on the current motors? 4 years? Could you just get the seals added once the warranty is up? And can Brise motors be serviced/repaired or are they essentially scrap once they die?

There's a section called Brose . Under motors. You might want to read there and do some research rather than just asking questions, you'll be able to form a more informed opinion.

 

[billium]

Are Brise likely to announce a new motor soon, or is that just speculation?

What's the warranty on the current motors? 4 years? Could you just get the seals added once the warranty is up? And can Brise motors be serviced/repaired or are they essentially scrap once they die?

No idea but the new warranty is back to 2 yrs and although the motor has some cartridge bearings that can be replaced, it also has a needle roller bearing on the drive side which means the crankshaft is part of the bearing. If (when) that gets corroded, if not caught early enough you may be looking at a new crank.
The circuitboard cover is also a design screw up that needs additional weatherproofing

Good explanation here at 7:00 mins
Later on he discussed additional seals they add to OUT OF WARRANTY motors.

Bearing man in UK performs similar upgrades
Look about 11:00 mins

 

[Ark]

MTBmonster have E-160 S 29er for 4999 which seems like a steal, Bosch CX + a 750watt battery
they are 700-1400 quid more expensive at other etailers

They also have hefty discounts on Trek bikes, really cheap rails for previous year models or the latest Rail 7 for 5.3k which is a £1000 discount.

All my local shops are way more expensive, people say go local but when your saving so much money.... even if you have to pay labour costs on warranty issues fixed locally your still saving 500+ quid in the long run

 

[1oldfart]

Giant tends to offer value so look at some built in your budget.
You want to stay away from light Ebikes.

 

[RJUK]

Giant tends to offer value so look at some built in your budget.
You want to stay away from light Ebikes.

Why stay away from light ebikes?

 

[beanzz]

Why stay away from light ebikes?

Less bang for your buck usually, same with mullets i find

 

[Yoak]

I would say the Bosch gets you longer than the Shimano (625 bat )We are a big group and the ones with Shimano motors (Merida e160s) started to complain of shorter range after a year. Often they would have to turn around while the Bosch gang (whyte, Rail, Mondraker) kept on pedalling. I understand this is anecdotal, but 2 of them have already bought new bikes with Bosch motors. I had 2 failures with Bosch, both replaced under warranty within a week.

 

[Ark]

Someone on youtube did a range test11 months ago and this was there result
Not exactly 100% scientific but mirrors what most peoples anecdotal evidence suggests


Btw bear in mind the Yamaha/Giant Syncdrive motor has a breathable membrane so in the wet guess what can happen.... also I read the grease they use dries out over time so needs redoing after around 11months.

put me right off them.
Personally I'd avoid Brose too seems not as reliable as Bosch and Shimano from everything I read.
Seems Bosch is number 1 in most peoples minds

You might wanna just watch a bunch of videos on youtube of the teardowns of each motor when people are showing how they fix them, you get a good idea of how weather proof they are and which ones look like they are designed to last.
TheYorkshireBikeMechanic and Ebikemotorcentre on youtube have videos showing that.

 

[Yoak]

Interesting indeed. Thanks for posting

 

[RJUK]

Someone on youtube did a range test11 months ago and this was there result
Not exactly 100% scientific but mirrors what most peoples anecdotal evidence suggests

View attachment 108929
Btw bear in mind the Yamaha/Giant Syncdrive motor has a breathable membrane so in the wet guess what can happen.... also I read the grease they use dries out over time so needs redoing after around 11months.

put me right off them.
Personally I'd avoid Brose too seems not as reliable as Bosch and Shimano from everything I read.
Seems Bosch is number 1 in most peoples minds

You might wanna just watch a bunch of videos on youtube of the teardowns of each motor when people are showing how they fix them, you get a good idea of how weather proof they are and which ones look like they are designed to last.
TheYorkshireBikeMechanic and Ebikemotorcentre on youtube have videos showing that.

From what I gather none of the motors are all that reliable. Also it seems the Specialized bikes are quite popular, which could result in it seeming like there are more failures.

I think I'll likely go for a Bosch or Brose. I like that the Brose is so quiet. I think a rattly/clacky motor would drive me mad.

I've not watched the video yet, but I guess bike weight would have an effect as well. For example I'm looking at the Whyte E-160 RSX and the Levo Expert at the moment. The Whyte has the Bosch, but is also a lot heavier than the Levo. It does also have a larger battery though. I suspect it would therefore go slightly further.

I do like that the Specialized now has a feature to limit the charge to 80% though, which should make the battery (another very expensive component) last longer.

 

[Mikerb]

If

From what I gather none of the motors are all that reliable. Also it seems the Specialized bikes are quite popular, which could result in it seeming like there are more failures.

I think I'll likely go for a Bosch or Brose. I like that the Brose is so quiet. I think a rattly/clacky motor would drive me mad.

I've not watched the video yet, but I guess bike weight would have an effect as well. For example I'm looking at the Whyte E-160 RSX and the Levo Expert at the moment. The Whyte has the Bosch, but is also a lot heavier than the Levo. It does also have a larger battery though. I suspect it would therefore go slightly further.

I do like that the Specialized now has a feature to limit the charge to 80% though, which should make the battery (another very expensive component) last longer.

If you fit a Kiox 300 to the RSX it tells you charge % as you charge the battery. I usually charge mine to 85% and only occasionally to 100%

 

[RJUK]

If

If you fit a Kiox 300 to the RSX it tells you charge % as you charge the battery. I usually charge mine to 85% and only occasionally to 100%

Sure, but you still have to have the battery in the bike and you have to monitor it. Presumably if you remove the battery there's no way to tell the state of charge?

The only way would be to have the bike in the house and keep checking, or keep going out to the garage. With the Levo it sounds like you can set it to 80%, plug it in and walk away.

Seems like a really simple thing to implement. I just wish Bosch would do it (and mobile phone manufacturers etc...)

 

[Yoak]

I’ve had 2 Rails before the one I have now, and I charged them to 100% every time. The one I had the longest was around 2 years (used it all year round around 3000km) and I didn’t notice any significant drop in battery range. I did the same to my Korean electric car for 6 years and the range dropped maybe a few %. I really didn’t notice.
Now I have a Tesla and I’m recommended to charge only to 80% and it drives me a bit mad.
So I guess the battery technology used makes a big difference

 

[RJUK]

I’ve had 2 Rails before the one I have now, and I charged them to 100% every time. The one I had the longest was around 2 years (used it all year round around 3000km) and I didn’t notice any significant drop in battery range. I did the same to my Korean electric car for 6 years and the range dropped maybe a few %. I really didn’t notice.
Now I have a Tesla and I’m recommended to charge only to 80% and it drives me a bit mad.
So I guess the battery technology used makes a big difference

Yes and no. All lithium batteries degrade fastest at 100 SOC. You should avoid charging to 100% if you can to help the battery last longer. You should also avoid deep discharging it as well. Keeping the battery between 20% and 80% is best where possible.

The same goes for everything. Your phone, laptop, bike, car... Anything with a lithium battery. They are most stressed at either extreme of their charge levels. If you must charge to 100% then aim for the charge to finish just as you're about to leave so that it doesn't sit at 100% for too long.

Regarding the car - the battery is usually about half the value of an EV, hence it makes sense to look after it if you intend to keep the car for a while. I think all manufacturers except for Tesla software limit the battery so that you can't charge it to 100%. The screen will show 100% charge but in reality it might only be 95% or something.

I charge mine to 83% most of the time because it takes me about 3% to get to work. I only charge higher if I'm going on a long trip and need the additional range. Even then I leave it to finish as close to when I leave as possible.

I doubt any one manufacturer has much better battery chemistry, just some manufacturers give you the information to look after the battery, whereas others know that giving this information to customers will possibly scare them away from the car, so they just don't say anything.

There's a lady in work who was still charging her phone like it had an old NiCad battery in it - discharging it as low as possible then leaving it on charge all night to get it back up to 100%... Until I pointed out that's the worst thing you can do to a modern lithium battery...

 

[John_A]

Specialized are renowned for their excellent warranty, the bikes are great too

`rutland have the carbon comp on offer just about within budget

Specialized Turbo Levo Comp 2022 Carbon Electric Mountain Bike Black Grey Black

A superlight and nimble electric mountain bike that doubles your pedaling power? Conventional wisdom says this is impossible, but fortunately, the Turbo Levo doesn’t give a damn about conventional wisdom. It crushes long rides, loves to get rowdy, and completely redefines the modern mountain...

www.rutlandcycling.com

 

[RJUK]

Thanks. Currently torn between the Whyte E-160RSX, the Whyte E-180RSX and the Levo Expert 2022.

Think I'm swaying towards the Levo, as much as I'd love to have a bike blinged out with Kashima and AXS parts like the E-180RSX has...

Not sure if 170/180 travel is too much for a light rider that mainly does trails though. What does too much travel mean? Less poppy bike, I guess? And I guess even with the low COG of the Whyte bikes, the extra travel and weight would make it feel more cumbersome than the comparatively lightweight Levo?

Looking at Levo reviews online seems to suggest the Carbon Levos are close to perfect, with reviewers like the Loam Wolf and Bike Radar gushing over them.

If they love the Levo, I'm sure it'll be plenty good enough for me.