E-Sommet v 2020 Kenevo

[AverageJoeMTB]

Evening all. Got an odd question for you all tonight. I rode a 2020 expert Kenevo today and had an issue, on my first ever ride doing a run down a familiar 2 minute trail I was 10 seconds faster on the Kenevo and it felt way more planted. I ran it again and the same, went back to my Vitus and couldn't find where and why I wasn't carrying as much speed. It's steep with limited pedalling, besides the Kenevo is restricted where as my E-Sommet isn't.

Question is why, I didn't think the Kenevo was way more slack or long, frame sizes are similar, L E-Sommet the Kenevo (S4) looks a bit longer and the reach is an extra 20mm more than mine.

Could it be the confidence in the suspension? I've always been a fan of coils over air, and run them on my last 3 bikes before the Sommet. I can't see it being tyres, I've got 2 ride old E wilds and the Kenevo had the oldest worn Purple downhill cased Mary on the rear and a DHR up front.

Maybe there is something I can improve on the Sommet as I really wasn't expecting that sort of difference. The bike just blew me away in how it felt and I don't think I can ignore it.

Would love some thoughts opinions, anyone else ridden both? The old Kenevo didn't impress me that much but this one, Jesus it's good.

 

[STATO]

Not ridden a Kenevo, but interested in the Geo. There are a few differences on the stats; 10mm more travel, 20mm reach, 1.5 head angle, 10mm chainstay, which all add to a 50mm longer wheelbase S4 vs L Sommet. The S4 is actually longer than the XL Sommet in reach and wheelbase.

Obviously not an answer, but for downhill.. i know its a cliche and not necessarily true, but longer lower slacker?

 

[R120]

Interesting I found the opposite, the Kenevo felt like a battleship compared to the E-Somet - I guess it depends on the trail, if the trail lends itself to how the kenevo can just bulldoze though and over stuff then you may well see a difference, whereas if the trail requires more movement of the bike I would have thought the Vitus would be quicker.

The one thing I did love on the Kenevo was the dual crowns, but for most of my riding they are uncalled for, and the restricted turning would be a bit of an issue.

I do think the latest Kenevo is a whole different kind of bike to the Vitus though, the older Kenevo was comparable in terms of capabilities, but the new Kenevo is definitely even more gravity focused, it may only have 10mm more travel up front, but to ride it is definitely a shorter travel dh bike IMO rather than a long travel enduro bike, especially in expert trim.

 

[Gary]

I can't see it being tyres

really?
Everyone I know who's riding Michies at the moment has mentioned the increased rolling resistance.

DH times between my Esommet and my Capra are too close to call (within 1sec)
Both bikes run prettymuch the same tyres (compound/tread/width), same suspension components, similar set-ups, both share very similar sizing/geo.
The only BIG difference is the Capra is running 26" wheels and is 15mm shorter in reach with 14mm shorter stays
Both bikes "feel" different. Eeb feels steamroller stable whereas the Capra "feels" more sketchy. it's not. it's just ridiculously more maneoverable and playful.
I actually prefer sketch tho as to me it feels more fun.

considering both bikes are massively capable I'd put your huge 10sec difference down to rider preference/confidence and tyres (partly drag, partly confidence).
it's not like the Forest of Dean can't be ridden fast on any decent mtb.

 

[AverageJoeMTB]

Not ridden a Kenevo, but interested in the Geo. There are a few differences on the stats; 10mm more travel, 20mm reach, 1.5 head angle, 10mm chainstay, which all add to a 50mm longer wheelbase S4 vs L Sommet. The S4 is actually longer than the XL Sommet in reach and wheelbase.

Obviously not an answer, but for downhill.. i know its a cliche and not necessarily true, but longer lower slacker?

I did actually check Geometry Geeks later and was surprised it was that different. Cliche it might be, but people don't win world cups on XC bikes. Still be interesting to see Sam Hill chuck an enduro down a world cup stage though!

Interesting I found the opposite, the Kenevo felt like a battleship compared to the E-Somet - I guess it depends on the trail, if the trail lends itself to how the kenevo can just bulldoze though and over stuff then you may well see a difference, whereas if the trail requires more movement of the bike I would have thought the Vitus would be quicker.

The one thing I did love on the Kenevo was the dual crowns, but for most of my riding they are uncalled for, and the restricted turning would be a bit of an issue.

I do think the latest Kenevo is a whole different kind of bike to the Vitus though, the older Kenevo was comparable in terms of capabilities, but the new Kenevo is definitely even more gravity focused, it may only have 10mm more travel up front, but to ride it is definitely a shorter travel dh bike IMO rather than a long travel enduro bike, especially in expert trim.

I wasn't saying the Kenevo was more nimble, just the opposite it was a tank. Felt more planted and stable. Just over all felt quicker, was quicker and I felt so comfortable on it. I didn't think I'd ever find a bike I liked more than the E-Sommet.

The Vitus would be way more nimble on tighter trails with switch backs and trials like sections no doubt. There is a new trail not far from me with about 7-8 tight switch backs, if I can blag another few goes I'll try them back to back there too. It's new so very loamy and tight. I kid you not it's called 'Nuns Chuff'!

really?
Everyone I know who's riding Michies at the moment has mentioned the increased rolling resistance.

DH times between my Esommet and my Capra are too close to call (within 1sec)
Both bikes run prettymuch the same tyres (compound/tread/width), same suspension components, similar set-ups, both share very similar sizing/geo.
The only BIG difference is the Capra is running 26" wheels and is 15mm shorter in reach with 14mm shorter stays
Both bikes "feel" different. Eeb feels steamroller stable whereas the Capra "feels" more sketchy. it's not. it's just ridiculously more maneoverable and playful.
I actually prefer sketch tho as to me it feels more fun.

considering both bikes are massively capable I'd put your huge 10sec difference down to rider preference/confidence and tyres (partly drag, partly confidence).
it's not like the Forest of Dean can't be ridden fast on any decent mtb.

Maybe I was a bit eager to say it wasn't the tyres. They could well be related for part of the time. the trails are hard and dry so I doubt the contact patch would be massivly different but rolling they could be. Old tyres, less matierial, drag harder softer etc.

You quite rightly use the word "feel" and I think you're right about confidence. I think the confidence the bike inspired just made me carry more speed. Tyres, suspension, geo all the above linked together I was pinned the whole way. Maybe the bike is a better fit for me and how I ride. Thinking back I coudn't tell you how well the brakes worked as I don't think I touched them much until the bottom!

I think what I might have been doing with this post was talking myself out of an expensive change of bike. Not for those 10 seconds, they don't really matter, I'm no speed demon. But the confidence the bike bought out in me, now that could well be worth an investment.

I don't ride anything offical in FOD, I live here

 

[Gary]

Still be interesting to see Sam Hill chuck an enduro down a world cup stage though!

He already has done. Out of DH WC retirement and after wrapping up the EWS series Sam chucked his Nukeproof Mega EWS race bike down the World champs DH track in 2017 to finish in 6th place.
Sam's medium Mega's goemetry wasn't too far off the 2006 Ironhorse Sunday's geometry back when he absolutely slayed the field at WCs

 

[Gary]

Tyres make a massive difference.
just the other day I was riding with a mate. Both of us on 170mm Enduro bikes, me with maxxpro (hard compound) DHF/SS Exos. him Michie DH 22s full on DH tryes
On the steeper stuff he was hauling with plenty precision and grip where I was running out of grip, drifting everywhere and having to use every rut or corner support to keep speed but on one section of more mellow tight twisty newly cut loam I rode blind I accelerated and made a massive gap on him he simply couldn't close.
He's a current national DH champion. I'm just an old guy who still likes to play on DH tracks.

 

[AverageJoeMTB]

He already has done. Out of DH WC retirement and after wrapping up the EWS series Sam chucked his Nukeproof Mega EWS race bike down the World champs DH track in 2017 to finish in 6th place.
Sam's medium Mega's goemetry wasn't too far off the 2006 Ironhorse Sunday's geometry back when he absolutely slayed the field at WCs

How had I not seen that before! Thanks ?

 

[Gary]

 

[InRustWeTrust]

I tried a Friends kenevo expert and all i can say is that the kenevo feels a Little bit Moore playfull and accerelate much faster .


My e-sommet is derestrickted and when we raced the kenevo was beside me all the time witch is Wierd, so the kenevo is easier to pedal over 25 km limit.
We ride a 36 km Long ride and the kenevo was running out of battery first and i had 2 bars left but i dont know what mode kenevo was riding on.


But i dont want to chance My e-sommet beacuse it is what r120 say that it is a very allround bike that can handle everything.

 

[R120]

I did actually check Geometry Geeks later and was surprised it was that different. Cliche it might be, but people don't win world cups on XC bikes. Still be interesting to see Sam Hill chuck an enduro down a world cup stage though!



I wasn't saying the Kenevo was more nimble, just the opposite it was a tank. Felt more planted and stable. Just over all felt quicker, was quicker and I felt so comfortable on it. I didn't think I'd ever find a bike I liked more than the E-Sommet.

The Vitus would be way more nimble on tighter trails with switch backs and trials like sections no doubt. There is a new trail not far from me with about 7-8 tight switch backs, if I can blag another few goes I'll try them back to back there too. It's new so very loamy and tight. I kid you not it's called 'Nuns Chuff'!



Maybe I was a bit eager to say it wasn't the tyres. They could well be related for part of the time. the trails are hard and dry so I doubt the contact patch would be massivly different but rolling they could be. Old tyres, less matierial, drag harder softer etc.

You quite rightly use the word "feel" and I think you're right about confidence. I think the confidence the bike inspired just made me carry more speed. Tyres, suspension, geo all the above linked together I was pinned the whole way. Maybe the bike is a better fit for me and how I ride. Thinking back I coudn't tell you how well the brakes worked as I don't think I touched them much until the bottom!

I think what I might have been doing with this post was talking myself out of an expensive change of bike. Not for those 10 seconds, they don't really matter, I'm no speed demon. But the confidence the bike bought out in me, now that could well be worth an investment.

I don't ride anything offical in FOD, I live here

No I got what you where saying - in the right terrain the Kenevo Expert is a total weapon, but one of the things I like most about the E-Sommet is that IMO its a one bike solution that you can take anywhere and it will handle what you throw at it, as its so capable. I f I was looking at a Kenevo though, I would also be checking out the Whyte E180-RS, which whilst lacking the dual crowns is also an amazing ride for DH stuff.