E-MTB isn’t cheating - research finding

[Fivetones]

No, e-bikes aren’t cheating

Whilst it’s a small study it has some interesting findings. Link to the paper is in the article too - including the bikes they used.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

The study is a bit underwhelming but I dare say, has an inappropriate title. Even if it were to be a more intensive research that included cardio/physical exertion studies - this doesn't address the real issue that the title of the research presented - which is the social stigma of CHEATING.

We have to understand that the association between "cheating" and electric motors adapted to bicycles stemmed from road cyclists who hid motor/battery units down their seat posts in order to win touring races by blatantly cheating. When this form of cheating finally got caught and blew up in the media, the cycling community in general understandably despised the practice and lumped electric powered bikes along the same category as power enhancement drugs and blood doping.

Fast forward to today.. unfortunately the stigma still exists the very moment you ride a motorised bicycle. What what many people forget is this:

eMTB motors were never hidden to begin with, and are still not hidden. There is no deception here... no reason to get caught for any wrong-doing. It's obvious to everyone in a group that a rider on an eBike receives assistance, so any advantage he may have over others is openly and voluntarily relinquished.

So if it's not hidden - the real question that needs to be asked is, why is it cheating?

 

[Gary]

WTF cares?

Seriously!

If your Emtb isn't less effort to pedal than an mtb you've completely wasted your money.

If it bothers you that others use an Ebike so much you feel the need to vocalise it you're probably a bit of a dick!

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Relax Gary, we know what people are like - who vocalise their disapproval when others use eBikes. We're all in the same boat when we vocalise our disapproval about other things. You're right, shouldn't care about transient opinion, but some people do... and need to process.

Topic is about research - which I don't think really achieves anything either.

So this whole thing about cheating... stay calm everyone, this will just slowly disappear over time. No one will even remember what it was about.

 

[wepn]

The study is a bit underwhelming but I dare say, has an inappropriate title. Even if it were to be a more intensive research that included cardio/physical exertion studies - this doesn't address the real issue that the title of the research presented - which is the social stigma of CHEATING.

The Verge headline completely misses the point, who cares about what people think about 'cheating'. Are we talking about the same study? Cheating is not mentioned once in the pilot study paper. Plenty of mention about cardio/physical exertion. It is well researched and I urge everyone to read the actual paper not The Verge article.

Pedal-Assist Mountain Bikes: A Pilot Study Comparison of the Exercise Response, Perceptions, and Beliefs of Experienced Mountain Bikers

WTF cares?

Precisely.

 

[Fivetones]

Completely agree the article headline is nonsense.

The study itself, which is entirely straightforward in what it presents and completely aware of the shortcomings, could lead to more people taking up cycling and being healthy. They measure exertion via heart rate monitors but, agreed it could be more in depth and wider.

Wtf cares? Aside from the fact it’s good that people are enjoying mountain biking of any kind a large percentage of the population of the world is facing an obesity epidemic (estimated that 250M people worldwide are now obese).

Anyway. Aside from all that I thought it might be nice to encourage Gary into reading the details of a research paper ?

 

[raine]

When I read that article the day it came out, it was not what I was expecting to read. It is a click-bait headline, but Verge does that a lot these days to keep up with how the Internet works.

IMO If you're not even competing against anyone, it can't be "cheating".
If you're riding your eMTB because you like to ride it, there's no "cheating".

IF however you're by yourself and doing some sort of training or competition-related activity where you should be using 100% human power and no aids, then the only person you're cheating is yourself ... which is still no one's business to tell you "you're cheating."

Side note: I keep seeing posts from people referring to "Gary" and then I realize I don't see anything he says because I blocked him a long time ago LOL

 

[Jamsxr]

I tend to refer to riding my eMTB as a cheat day, it’s only light hearted. I also relish the opportunity to have a discussion with anyone who challenges them.

I still like the stomach churning grind on my MTB, so when I get on my eMTB it 100% feels like cheating, and I’m giggling like a little school girl having an absolute blast whilst still getting a workout. Love it.

 

[wepn]

Completely agree the article headline is nonsense.

The study itself, which is entirely straightforward in what it presents and completely aware of the shortcomings, could lead to more people taking up cycling and being healthy. They measure exertion via heart rate monitors but, agreed it could be more in depth and wider.

Wtf cares? Aside from the fact it’s good that people are enjoying mountain biking of any kind a large percentage of the population of the world is facing an obesity epidemic (estimated that 250M people worldwide are now obese).

Anyway. Aside from all that I thought it might be nice to encourage Gary into reading the details of a research paper ?

I can't speak for Gary but the way I understood his

WTF cares

was wtf cares if somebody thinks you're a cheater & I agreed.

Thank you for posting the paper!
Please continue with your thought provocation - the only good type of provocation.

 

[Gary]

I don't see anything he says because I blocked him a long time ago LOL

Yes. I meant WTF cares what anyone else thinks.

 

[Fivetones]

Yes. I meant WTF cares what anyone else thinks.

I think we all agree. There are those that get hung up on it though.

 

[Chubba]

It's all nonsense, you want to cough blood when riding an EMTB, just lower the settings and ride harder. Haters gonna hate until they swing a leg over.......

In South Africa, all big MTB races have an EMTB category, fairly acceptable norm here now.

 

[Jdog]

Side note: I keep seeing posts from people referring to "Gary" and then I realize I don't see anything he says because I blocked him a long time ago LOL

 

[Chubba]

The Verge headline completely misses the point, who cares about what people think about 'cheating'. Are we talking about the same study? Cheating is not mentioned once in the pilot study paper. Plenty of mention about cardio/physical exertion. It is well researched and I urge everyone to read the actual paper not The Verge article.

Pedal-Assist Mountain Bikes: A Pilot Study Comparison of the Exercise Response, Perceptions, and Beliefs of Experienced Mountain Bikers
.

What I find interesting about this study is they do not indicate the EMTB settings/assistance? This would play a major part in the testing and results. Good study nonetheless.

 

[Beekeeper]

The early pioneers of steam trains e.g George Stevenson and his Rocket received all sorts of ridicule and criticism much like ebikers receive today.

The faster transport with minimal effort created a “moral panic” that a society experiences when particularly revelatory technological advances show up—specifically, ones which interfere with or alter our relationships with time, space, and each other.

Many people claimed this mode of transport should be banned and that the human body would not survive speeds of 50MPH.
Other claimed at this speed, organs would fly out of the body.

Actually come to think of it. Those front shocks do remind me of a Kenevo...

 

[Duelsy]

I’ve never been ridiculed or ridiculed anyone for having an E-bike. My mates have a bit of banter about it but I like that. Quite frankly I wouldn’t car anyway, I have more fun, go further and have to stop for breaks less, therefore I still stay fit. Every single person who’s had a go on my Decoy now wants one, including people who’ve been biking for decades.

I’ve only had my EMTB for a month but I’ll never go back now, it’s just too good.

 

[MTBGUY65]

I would second the last post. What most uninformed people don't quite comprehend or refuse to open their minds to is that you can go further, you can go harder without stopping for breaks, and you get a better workout.......and you have way more fun so why is that a bad thing.....

I agree haters will be haters it is a sad statement in the time we live in.

Hope everyone enjoys their EMTB and be happy you made the right decision

 

[Rusty]

The early pioneers of steam trains e.g George Stevenson and his Rocket received all sorts of ridicule and criticism much like ebikers receive today.

Lucky we don't need to have a guy on a MTB riding in front of us waving a flag


Seriously - I raced in the 3rd round of my clubs Summer Series Wed. night. Knocked myself out after some head to tree contact but managed to complete both laps - unlike someone, so I didn't finish DFL. However, my club did things right - they sent us off 1 minute in front of the A graders at the head of the field. I got passed by a few while I was collecting my thoughts but until my crash 1/3 way through the 2nd lap I still had a decent gap back to the A Graders.

Personally I don't give a rats ass what people think - I do my own thing and of that upsets them, well tough sheit.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

It is not cheating because I am not in a race against other cyclists on non EMTBs. So why would I be cheating. I wonder if they had these arguments and stupid comments when then invented wheels as opposed walking everywhere.

 

[Trail-Niels]

I’m just wondering if I’m cheating when driving my car in predictive adaptive mode with the lane assistent on, and the automatic headlights?
The car will turn by itself when I try do leave the lane, and it will also brake if I drive up to the car in front or close up on a turn...
No I don’t think anybody would call it cheating...
lt is virtually the same imo as it’s just evolution of a known technology.

 

[Beekeeper]

I’m just wondering if I’m cheating when driving my car in predictive adaptive mode with the lane assistent on, and the automatic headlights?
The car will turn by itself when I try do leave the lane, and it will also brake if I drive up to the car in front or close up on a turn...
No I don’t think anybody would call it cheating...
lt is virtually the same imo as it’s just evolution of a known technology.

Good point. And using a car Sat Nav as opposed to a paper map is definitely cheating ?.
I bet the hikers with their paper maps hated the Garmin crew who strolled on by and never got lost and never argued endlessly with each other or got their maps soggy in the rain.

 

[Grampus]

When will this ever stop, E bikes are of course not in any way cheating, unless we are racing and I am on and E bike and you are not ! Push yourself and your bike to the limit and you will get full benefit whether on an E bike or an analogue bike it’s up to you where you set the assist levels.
What can be overlooked here is the benefit an E bike can provide to riders who are not still in the first flush of youth or best of health. It’s not all about peak heart rates or power levels, much of the benefit is gained in your own psyche or the boost to your well being by still being out there on the trails and tracks, and still getting a good physical work out.
After years of road riding time trialling and mountain biking I was forced to almost totally give up riding after contacting a heart complaint, facing 25% hills in all directions here on the NorthYorkshire Moors it all became a bit too much. 67 years old now and after getting my first Levo 2 years ago I haven’t looked back, 30 mile plus rides over the moors in all weathers Dalby Forest, Glen Tress and Coed Y Brennon back on my agenda.
Bring it on....

Old Guys on E Bikes Rule

 

[Trail-Niels]

Good point. And using a car Sat Nav as opposed to a paper map is definitely cheating ?.
I bet the hikers with their paper maps hated the Garmin crew who strolled on by and never got lost and never argued endlessly with each other or got their maps soggy in the rain.

Oh yes, I also cheated and used my handheld Garmin unit to hike to the summit of mt. Snowdon in the fog, passing all the hikers without...
And I also cheated with a weather proof jacket so I didn’t get wet - boo I’m a real cheater
... changing the context and then somehow it’s normal.

 

[DrStupid]

I bought a legacy bike (one without a motor), it was a Stance 29er, just becuase I wanted to try and understand the anti-ebike crowd. It basically sucked so bad compared to my ebike in fun-factor, that I simply hated to ride it, and traded it in on another ebike (the voltiac. I know it's a tacky name).

The point is, I dont like their bikes anymore than they like mine. Lol. I'm a hater too.

 

[Zimmerframe]

the voltiac

It sounds like the name GM would come up with for a performance version of the Volt, released under a ten year celebratory Pontiac re-birth.

 

[Terry]

I don't give a flying f@€k if people say I'm cheating. I'm having fun!! That's all that matters to me!!?

 

[Gary]

What most uninformed people don't quite comprehend or refuse to open their minds to is that you can go further,

no you can't

you can go harder

you won't

without stopping for breaks

there's nothing stopping you taking no break on an mtb either

and you get a better workout

where do folk even get nonsense like this from?

.......and you have way more fun

entirely subjective, eh?

Just ride your bike and stop trying to justify its motor.

 

[Jamsxr]

What’s as annoying as being labelled a cheat on an EMTB is EBike riders who think they have discovered some sort of utopia that’s just so much better than MTB.

Clearly it’s down to personal preference but I’ll always choose my MTB first. Maybe that will change when I’m old and fat ?

 

[Terry]

What’s as annoying as being labelled a cheat on an EMTB is EBike riders who think they have discovered some sort of utopia that’s just so much better than MTB.

Clearly it’s down to personal preference but I’ll always choose my MTB first. Maybe that will change when I’m old and fat ?

Oh, miaoooow! Anyway, less of the old!! I'm only 70!

 

[Gary]

EBike riders who think they have discovered some sort of utopia that’s just so much better than MTB.

TBF for many it can be such a game changer it probably will feel like a (personal) utopia.

Clearly it’s down to personal preference but I’ll always choose my MTB first. Maybe that will change when I’m old and fat ?

FWIW I'm fairly old and definitely a bit overweight just now and I still far prefer riding my mtbs to Emtb. I haven't taken my commuting wheelset (slick tyres) off my Emtb for a few weeks now as I'm just enjoying riding my mtbs off-road far more. Every one of them just feels so much nicer to ride than any 21kg+ Emtb ever could be.

Mtb and emtb are both fun to ride. Just different.