E Mtb Exercise v MTB Exercise

[Mikerb]

Here is a simple test. Take a look at the facial expression of a mamil...they rarely lokk like they are having fun! Now take a look at the facial expression of a mtb rider on a climb....smiling? Now look at the same rider on a flowing or techy fast flat trail or descent...having fun...you bet ! Seriously my point here was that for most of us mere mortals the amount of fun we can get from a ride is limited by the strength and fitness of primarilly our quad muscles and our lung capacity. E-mtb greatly lessens dependance on the level of fitness and strength in those 2 areas because the greatest strain is placed on them mostly by energy sapping climbs. Age injury and lifestyle ( e.g. sedentary working week) all take their toll on those.

 

[Gary]

That's not a simple test

it's also a completely inaccurate sweeping generalisation.

Whats with all the "mere mortals" pish BTW.

Lance armstrong in his ultimate juiced up state was still just a bloke on drugs riding a bike (just like many of us )

 

[Mikerb]

is that a selfie?

 

[Gary]

Yes.
i hold my phone with my cock

 

[Gary]

out the hem of my jeans

 

[OlaGB]

Agree Gary, its about intake vs output. Low intensity = longer workouts for the same calorie consumption. High intensity is always more efficent.
Allthough you need to do low intensity as well, if you want to improve on long duration workouts/competitions. And to get enough restitution for next hard day out if you workout alot.

Emtb as work out form is perfect for me, as i can go fast and hard, without needing to enter high HR zones, meaning i have tons of fun on my easy workout days!
I also use it as a second workout on the same day i do runs, but then at even slower pace.
Emtb lets me ride alot more than before due to this, as you cant work out hard all the time, and riding slow gets boring reeeal quick.

I normally do mountain running (alot of steep uphill) as my main/hard workout form.

 

[Gary]

it's sort of impossible not to do at least some low intensity on most rides. (mtb or emtb)
doing a lot is extremely time consuming. not to mention a bit dull IMO

i've always had a decent base fitness so even in eco my emtb wouldn't actually cover as long a long low intensity ride as I could do on my roadbike. (maybe it would if I fitted slicks and rode it on the road. But I can't see me ever doing this as i find road bikes actually are fun on the road).
I'm lucky enough to live somewhere with miles and miles of quiet roads so cracking out a steady hundred mile ride on the road isn't difficult. and it's pretty enjoyable. I used to do loads of long lower intensity road rides but just don't have the time anymore. Being limited of freetime high intensity rides would get me fitter (faster/stronger) a lot quicker. and help lose weight if those were my goals (they're not BTW)

 

[Akiwi]

My main sport is windsurfing and mountain biking is my no wind alternative for fitness and fun. High wind windsurfing uses nearly every muscle in your body with a big emphasis on core muscles. I always found MTB to be largely about...or at least limited by lung capacity and quads strength and fitness. My limited experience so far of E MTB is that those limitations no longer apply and a full ride becomes much more of a full body workout with exercise more evenly spread across a wider range of muscle groups. At my age (68) that means a e mtb ride is not only more fun than MTB but more beneficial .

Hey Mike, sounds pretty similar to me. I started windsurfing in the 70s basically before Mountainbikes existed. or better said were available and popular. I spend a lot of my holidays on Lake Garda in Italy where windsurfing and Mountain biking are both huge sports. I used to go primarily to Surf, and mountain biking was for the low wind days. There was nothing worse than being out on the bike and looking down at the lake to see the wind had come up, and people were ripping on the boards. Many a bike ride was cancelled with a mad dash back to the board for a sail.
I still windsurf a lot, but the mountain biking has increased substantially over the last 2 years since I have started using e-mtb's. on the days that I decide to bike, if the wind comes up then it doesn't worry me (as much) as I am having so much fun on the bike.
I would definitely say I am fitter now with the e-mtb than 3 years ago with my clockwork bike simply because I do HEAPS more riding.
And nearly all rides at lake Garda involve initially 1000 to 2000m climbs before the fun trails back down, so Turbo is not an option. a lot of motor off, or Eco climbing gets the sweat up.
I'm about to head off there for 3 weeks of intensive biking and surfing... can't wait!!!

 

[e-mtbiker]

No it isn't
eating less calories than you burn is.

it makes no difference how you burn them
and you'll get fitter with higher intensity exercise.

train at aerobic level all the time and you'll only ever be good at arerobic level exercise.
MTB is very much an anerobic activity if done to a high fitness level.
Even endurance mtb is raced at and above threshold.

Stop kidding yourself.
losing more weight from riding an ebike than a non assisted bike is complete nonsense.
As is getting fitter on an Ebike.

It's perfectly possible to train at low intensity on a non assisted mtb. it's just slower.
Granted you may enjoy the exercise more when assisted.
The funny thing is. the fitter you get the more enjoyable higher intensity riding becomes

I'm not kidding anyone, as someone who has a degree in the field and having worked with elite athletes as well as individuals with health and/or weight problems it's important we don't encourage anyone who doesn't already have a good level of fitness to go straight in to high intensity exercise straight off the bat.

There are so many non-evidence based comments in this reply it's impossible to put aside enough time to break them down, next you'll be telling me lactic acid causes fatigue... some food for thought.

 

[Mad Mark]

I like e-biking ?

 

[Mikerb]

Hey Mike, sounds pretty similar to me. I started windsurfing in the 70s basically before Mountainbikes existed. or better said were available and popular. I spend a lot of my holidays on Lake Garda in Italy where windsurfing and Mountain biking are both huge sports. I used to go primarily to Surf, and mountain biking was for the low wind days. There was nothing worse than being out on the bike and looking down at the lake to see the wind had come up, and people were ripping on the boards. Many a bike ride was cancelled with a mad dash back to the board for a sail.
I still windsurf a lot, but the mountain biking has increased substantially over the last 2 years since I have started using e-mtb's. on the days that I decide to bike, if the wind comes up then it doesn't worry me (as much) as I am having so much fun on the bike.
I would definitely say I am fitter now with the e-mtb than 3 years ago with my clockwork bike simply because I do HEAPS more riding.
And nearly all rides at lake Garda involve initially 1000 to 2000m climbs before the fun trails back down, so Turbo is not an option. a lot of motor off, or Eco climbing gets the sweat up.
I'm about to head off there for 3 weeks of intensive biking and surfing... can't wait!!!

Being unfit for windsurfing is a recipe for disaster. Not only the risk of injury but you never know when kit failure may mean a long swim to shore but it is difficult to create an exercise regime that meets what you need on the water....mtb is a help but not a total solution. So I do weights...at leam muscle level not body build level....and med ball. Mostly in Jan and Feb when most years there is less useable wind so fewer windsuf opportunities. I can do both in a controlled way 5 days a week in no more than 45 mins given I have all the equipment I need at home. Mtb adds another layer as well as being more fun. For me at least e mtb fits my needs better. Last thing I want is to do a ride and then find it is windy the next day but I am too knacketed to risk it!
Different strokes for different folks I guess

 

[Gary]

I'm not kidding anyone, as someone who has a degree in the field and having worked with elite athletes as well as individuals with health and/or weight problems it's important we don't encourage anyone who doesn't already have a good level of fitness to go straight in to high intensity exercise straight off the bat.

sorry. you've got the wrong end of the stick. I'm not encouraging anyone to take on any sort of specific exercise here. I'm simply saying using an Emtb is not going to magically get any able bodied rider any fitter than a normal unasisted bike can.
it's what you do with either bike that makes the difference. As you'll know very well.

TL : DR Gaining base fitness does not require any sort of motor.

 

[Mad Mark]

Gary let me try and explain "mere mortal" to you :-

Recently you posted a picture of yourself crashing or so I thought... Apparently you were "Getting Air"..... now for me a "mere mortal" that would mean a trip to the hospital and putting a face mask on.

You also appeared to be going sideways which for me, 0.5 second after that photo was taken, would have meant a trip to the aforementioned hospital to partake in the aforementioned "getting of Air"

Apparently this, so I've been told is called a ....."tail whip"...........now I think you might know where this is going.........a "mere mortal" would go to see a "lady of the night" to get this sort of thing

You my friend are a far "superior rider" than I am, hence why I would call myself a "mere mortal"

 

[Gary]

hahah...

Thanks for the lesson, especially the lady of the night bit. and the props

i'll try to return the favour (not the lady of the night bit)
I think in the pic you're referriing to I was pulling a lazy table. that's just leaning the bike over in the air while turning the bars into yourself ( front wheel facing up) and using your legs to get the bike flat underneath you (hence the name tabletop). Lazy just means i didn't put a lot of effort in.
A Euro table is the same thing only you turn the bars away from yourself (front wheel facing down) Depending on the jump euro tables can often look and feel nicer.

a whip sometimes referred to as a moto whip involves getting the bike sideways (but not leant over in the air by pushing the rear out and turning the bars to the other side.

My whips are often tabled so that would make what I'm doing a tabled whip (choose whichever term you prefer based on how sideways/flat it is)
Sometimes my whips/tables are shit which makes them a tweak
Sometimes i'm trying too hard and get the timing slightly wrong the result is often less than stylish but as it looks like you're trying that would be called a super tweak.

a scrub is when you use a whip to stay super low over a lip/jump by initiating the sideways motion BEFORE you take off and deadening the height. it is used to gain speed but looks absolutely awesome if done well

A tail whip is when you kick the entire bike frame round 360deg wthile still holding on to the bars.
it's not really possible unless you run massive cables for the rear brake and gears.

Sam Pilgrim is one of the only guys to do tailwhips on an emtb.
Watch this videoand you too can be as good at them as Sam (Yeah, right)


We're certainly all mere mortals. Just ones who spent a good amount of time practicing the odd trick. Trust me when it goes wrong (not very often TBF) it still hurts.

I'm no Pilgs. just an old guy who learned to be decently stylish as a kid in the 70s & 80s and can still pull off the odd move. I reckon I get more respect for my style nowadays as I am fairly old to be pulling any moves at all. My style is usually seen as old skool by younger riders. So thanks again for the compliment.

Ps. with the @Mad Mark name I was expecting a gnarly Evel Kneivel sort of dude rather than a red light district sort of dude

Every day's a Sk00L dae

 

[e-mtbiker]

sorry. you've got the wrong end of the stick. I'm not encouraging anyone to take on any sort of specific exercise here. I'm simply saying using an Emtb is not going to magically get any able bodied rider any fitter than a normal unasisted bike can.
it's what you do with either bike that makes the difference. As you'll know very well.

TL : DR Gaining base fitness does not require any sort of motor.

I totally agree, the benefit of an ebike is it allows you to better modulate your HR over a more varied terrain and potentially distance. An incredibly unfit individual might start punching through HR zones on a canal tow path which isn't beneficial and potentially dangerous, an ebike would help keep everything within safe limits.

When I left Uni the idea of functional training was gaining some traction, we studied the effect of weighted tennis racquets vs weight training on the tennis serve and found the weighted racquet yielded better results simply because it worked the key muscle groups for that action. This can't be replicated in the gym. So for elite riders it may be that providing the geometry is similar the additional weight of an ebike would be a good functional training tool as it works only the muscles required for the action being carried out? I don't know, but it would be interesting to see some research on it and I wouldn't be surprised if more professionals adopt ebikes as a training tool in the future.

 

[Mad Mark]

I'm just mad I can't do any of this stuff, I do keep trying, but tend to shit myself if both of the wheels come off the floor
As for evil kneivel if I tried anything like that, I'd probably do the same as him and crash.....my knees are bad enough !

 

[outerlimits]

Yes.
i hold my phone with my cock

out the hem of my jeans

I see what you did there

Talking myths aye

 

[n-xplorer]

Different strokes for different folks I guess

Glad to see other folks are having similar "strokes" as myself. Yes, long time windsurfer here who started sailing in '82. Bought my first mtb in Santa Rosa in '84, a used Diamond Back Ridge Runner (one of the first mtb's to be mass created). The Ridge Runner was used on those non-windy days along the California Coast. So these two sports along with hiking in summer & backcountry skiing in winter. Great combination of seasonal activities.

I now enjoy exploring on the e-bike 90% of my outdoor time. It has certainly increased my time on wheels and given me the opportunity to access places that I wouldn't otherwise explore. Perfect tool for BC Canada..... there's so many old trails, logging roads, wagon trails here.

 

[Ben Plenge]

Hey guys, Ben here from The Strength Factory. I recently wrote a couple of articles on the site about E-Bike fitness. I enjoyed reading this thread and the different thoughts on fitness and E-MTB.
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject mentioned above.....
1. It is certainly different to riding normal mountain bikes.
2. I totally agree that one of the benefits for many people is that you can spend more time riding at lower intensities, staying aerobic and not getting ruined on steeper climbs. This can be useful for athletes in training and needing an easier day as well as 'the mortals' who just can't take a hammering every time they go riding.
3. I do think that there is a much greater need for upper body strength if you want to really work the bike and ride it in a dynamic way. Also, bearing in mind that you do 2-4 times as many downhills, makes this point even more critical as you probably want to enjoy each downhill and ride it in a safe and committed way. Tired, weak muscles do not allow this.
4. If you want to work hard and beast yourself then you still can.
5. Fat loss is calories in vs calories out. Burn more that you eat and you lose weight. A valuable part of that can be low intensity aerobic training on your E-Bike. This may not burn as many calories during the actual ride compared to more intense efforts but it can make it a lot easier to control your appetite during and post-ride, helping you to achieve a calorie deficit and lose fat.
6. E-Bikes are rad and that is enough justification for me to ride one!
7. The World's first E-MTB specific training programme is available now and has £10 off until the 3rd of June.
The Ultimate E-MTB Programme - The Strength Factory
8. Let me know if you have any questions or comments on any of my points.
Ben

 

[galaga187]

For me, it's about getting a more constant aerobic workout.

Riding my old Stumpy up long, steep climbs, I'd quickly reach anaerobic levels. I don't enjoy that kind of exercise... at all.

On well equipped eMTBs, however, I'm huffing and puffing at a manageable rate.

Totally agree Jimbo I ride my levo with clockworks every Wed and they are blowing on the hills then still cursing on the flats but I can see the lower power numbers I am putting in on a heavier bike. With Blevo my average HR is a lot flatter too.

 

[goldo]

Interesting thread this. Gary is right about the fitness argument, but lets face it the reason for ebikes is different for everybody. For me, I'm 68, its about the fact that I can ride multiple days in a row and have a blast doing it and I'm running eco mode at 15% assist 99% of the time. I can ride longer, clear stuff I used to have to push up and like I said ride everyday if I want. no way I can do that with my non-assist bike. If I want to burn lots of calories I get on my road bike and go ride hills for 3 hours. But the best part is my grandson, who's 12 and on a mtnbike team, and I get to ride along with his Dad and we're all together having fun TOGETHER

 

[Mikerb]

Hey guys, Ben here from The Strength Factory. I recently wrote a couple of articles on the site about E-Bike fitness. I enjoyed reading this thread and the different thoughts on fitness and E-MTB.
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject mentioned above.....
1. It is certainly different to riding normal mountain bikes.
2. I totally agree that one of the benefits for many people is that you can spend more time riding at lower intensities, staying aerobic and not getting ruined on steeper climbs. This can be useful for athletes in training and needing an easier day as well as 'the mortals' who just can't take a hammering every time they go riding.
3. I do think that there is a much greater need for upper body strength if you want to really work the bike and ride it in a dynamic way. Also, bearing in mind that you do 2-4 times as many downhills, makes this point even more critical as you probably want to enjoy each downhill and ride it in a safe and committed way. Tired, weak muscles do not allow this.
4. If you want to work hard and beast yourself then you still can.
5. Fat loss is calories in vs calories out. Burn more that you eat and you lose weight. A valuable part of that can be low intensity aerobic training on your E-Bike. This may not burn as many calories during the actual ride compared to more intense efforts but it can make it a lot easier to control your appetite during and post-ride, helping you to achieve a calorie deficit and lose fat.
6. E-Bikes are rad and that is enough justification for me to ride one!
7. The World's first E-MTB specific training programme is available now and has £10 off until the 3rd of June.
The Ultimate E-MTB Programme - The Strength Factory
8. Let me know if you have any questions or comments on any of my points.
Ben

I agree with all of that and would add that aneorobic exercise like weights (done properly) also burns fat through the need of the muscles exhausted to recover. Additional protein as a supplement aids that process. The additional upper body stress of an e bike ridden hard would therefore also contribute to leaner muscle and better definition which is at least visually weight reducing if not in fact.

 

[jxj]

Great thread and I'm in a similar boat as Goldo. I've been riding since the mid 1960s.
Age takes it's toll as my max heart rate drops every year, recovery takes longer, clearing rough uphill sections gets sketchier. Add an injury that took me off the bike for 6 months last year and the ebike is my magic carpet back into riding. To keep things working I have a Spec Turbo Levo and use Blevo (phone application) hooked up to my chest heart strap. I have it programmed to not give any boost beyond what makes it close to the same as my acoustic MTB, until my heart rate is well into zone 4, then it adds power as I add leg power. The Blevo application makes the bike feel like a bionic extension to human power. Of course I can still tap maximum power to clear a brutal uphill that is beyond my own power or get me out of a messy section of mud. I find the 27.5+ tires and extra weight help with my balance issues (accident induced) and help me stay upright.

 

[Dan fagelson]

I ride my ebike for fun... Same as Gary, iv ridden dh bikes in the 90s that were mid 40lbs and other than a week in the alps we pushed and rode those bikes up hill. I was most fit a decade ago when I was riding my 32lb trail bike 3 to 4 times a week and hitting the gym for overall strength.... If I now want fitness I ride my hard tail or road bike, but that's rare now as the ebikes the nuts.

 

[jabi]

For those that think of calories burned or ride for burning calories, please remember what kind of energy you want to burn. Those that target weight reduction it is not about how high intensity or how many calories you burn more than about what kind of.

For obese people, like me, it wouldn't server a purpose to train in very high intensity if fat burning is the goal in mind. It would in certain training applications (training for speed, constitution etc) but in long run it is not efficient and would raise risk of getting sports related injuries if not done and scheduled correctly.

People with low fitness level and high body weight it would be better to try to train in low intensity because that is where fat burn rate is highest. The more intensity (and higher heart rate) the more carbohydrates you will burn and less fat is burned. When you are out of breath you can count on that you are not effectively burning fat anymore and instead you are using your carbohydrate reserves. It is also not necessary to avoid ascending and having your self worked up, but just to remind what kind of training purpose you have.

People that have normal weight and good fitness level are a another story.

To me emtb is godsend. I ride for fun and I believe you all are, but I could not ride this fat body and have fun at the same time so emtb enables me this hobby we all share and I will get many health benefits and it fits my training well (I also run).

 

[Couchy]

Interesting reading for me, October last year at 50 yrs old I bought an ebike and started using it 2/3/4 times a week for 2-3 hours at a time. I’ve come from riding and racing motorbikes and wasn’t too unfit or overweight but I found a normal mtb too much hard work. Within 5 months I’d lost a stone in weight and now have a normal bike as well, my fitness has improved massively. I changed nothing in my diet so the simple formula of burning more calories than I eat has paid off even if it wasn’t my first intention. I still love the ebike despite having my first proper off last week lol

 

[derby]

Where I live in the SF Bay Area nearly every where off road requires climbing 1500 to 2000 feet minimum for a short hour to hour and a half, 10 to 12 mile mountain bike trail ride.

My 2018 Levo eBike enables me at age 68 to ride and climb and descend 3 to 4 times the distance to feel as exhausted as on my mountain bike.

There is a lot of upper body and core as well as lower body exercise when descending tight eroded rocky rooty technical trails. With the eBike I can climb 3 or 4 times more than on my mountain bike, so I'm getting 3 or 4 times more upper body exercise descending now while getting about the same lower body exercise compared to my mountain bike.

So it figures if it takes 3 or 4 times the miles on an eBike to get the same amount of exercise as riding a mountain bike, then if riding the same trail and distance on a mountain bike verses eBike, then we get about 1/3 to 1/4 the exercise over the same distance when riding an eBike.

 

[R120]

First off I don't ride bikes for fitness, I have always loved getting out on 2 wheels, and any fitness I have achieved from doing so has been accidental rather than deliberate.

I have nothing against those who get into riding for fitness reasons, and I think that MTB is a great activity for those who want to get fit to do, especially because I think the mental benefits of getting out into the country side, fresh air, and away from the modern world is of equal benefit as the physical side, far more so than road cycling where having to deal with other road users and TDF wannabes seems to cause far too much aggro.

My only anecdotal fitness evidence is that in a bit over a year of riding EMTB's, on average 3 times and about 60 miles a week, I have lost over a stone, my core strength has improved, as has that of my upper body.

Aside from getting out on the bike I do no other "fitness", aside from walking a lot as its easier to get around where I live than take a car. - I dont really pay attention to what I eat but am lucky to have an other half who likes cooking nice food and won't go near a ready meal, my job in construction is fairly active, but I also spend a lot of time travelling and sitting in cars.

The EMTB has simply allowed me to get out more, some weeks I will get out every day, sometimes only a quick 10 mile 1 hour blast, but with the Emtb I know I can sneak a ride in whereas on my normal bikes it takes far more planning.

 

[Gary]

Also, bearing in mind that you do 2-4 times as many downhills

Yeah. I guess that is probably true for a lot of riders. But not really if you are a fairly fit frequent mtb rider who regularly does rides of 5000ft+ elevation. Being completely honest I'd usually do more climbing/downhills on my regular bikes than my Emtb as I wouldn't be restricted by battery range. It'd just take me longer. The Ebike allows me to climb to the next downhill quicker and at a lower intensity and be fresher for the next downhill. On shorter or evening time restricted rides. Yes. I can obviously do more downhills in less time..

I tend to think of my emtb as a FFWD for the shit parts (dull climbs) of my ride. But a FFWD where the remote has batteries you need to keep an eye on to eek out one last FFWD function.

*Yes. I could have two batteries but I absolutely hate the thought of carrying a backpack. and returning the the car to swap batteries would just ruin the ride a lot of places i ride. (a pretty good option for a lot of trail centres though)

 

[HikerDave]

No it isn't
eating less calories than you burn is.

it makes no difference how you burn them
and you'll get fitter with higher intensity exercise.

train at aerobic level all the time and you'll only ever be good at arerobic level exercise.
MTB is very much an anerobic activity if done to a high fitness level.
Even endurance mtb is raced at and above threshold.

Stop kidding yourself.
losing more weight from riding an ebike than a non assisted bike is complete nonsense.
As is getting fitter on an Ebike.

It's perfectly possible to train at low intensity on a non assisted mtb. it's just slower.
Granted you may enjoy the exercise more when assisted.
The funny thing is. the fitter you get the more enjoyable higher intensity riding becomes

I’m losing weight riding my eBike at a moderate intensity. On my weekend rides, I no longer consume an energy bar and still feel less hungry. To maintain fitness, I’ll push hard once in a while but rarely go anaerobic except on a few very steep hills which is probably why the post-ride hunger isn’t so bad. As a result I’m less likely to overeat after the ride. So even though calories burned is half of that of a normal bike ride I come out ahead.

This might be different for others; I once went into the doctor’s office for an A1C test after not going ever and alarmed them with my low blood sugar (52); they fed me a couple of sugar tabs and still didn’t want me to leave the office until I promised to grab something to eat at the fast food restaurant next door. A1C was in the healthy range, though. Anything I eat apparently instantly turns to fat.