E-bike speed restrictions (agree or disagree )

[Krisj]

I just Wanted to see what people’s thoughts are on speed restrictions on e-bikes.
Me personally don’t see the problem in derestricting Ebikes and don’t really understand why they have to be restricted.
I’ve rode a derestricted ebike ?in turbo and my findings were as follows.
On the flat you still need to pedal like your life depends on it to reach speeds of 36 MPH , on my scott genius analogue I’ve reached roughly the same speed. The only + to the ebike was it helped me to keep a consistent speed for longer which In turn helped to increase my stamina.
On the hills the Ebike climbes with ease ,just a nice steady pace no where near hitting the sound barrier and been reckless and dangerous.
The downhill sections I feel just as fast on the ebike as I would on my downhill bike which is a +
So I personally don’t understand the need for any restrictions at all , or am I missing something, I could understand if on our Ebikes we were going as fast as something with an engine , but we are going pretty much the same speed as an unassisted mtb , until we come to hill sections and then ,,,,,Yes this is where there the little man comes into play giving a constant push up,
but we are not speeding up the hill at breakneck speeds we are just going up slightly faster.
I just don’t get it
I think most people think of an ebike as an electric motor bike where you do not pedal , the amount of people that Ive let testride my bike to which they’ve said me what do i do , my reply just pedal , the next minute the big grin comes and then the start shouting I can’t believe it.
So my thoughts are it’s lack of education on the ebike scene that’s causing the problems with laws.
I’m sure the bike manufacturers would rather not have the added expense of putting a restriction on the bike in the first place.
So Keep riding and smiling
Power to the ebike revolution ✌????

 

[mark.ai]

Ok @Krisj you asked for this, so here are some rambling thoughts with no conclusion

For myself I never find a problem with the current motor limit:
- if I'm going downhill I can go faster than the limit anyway
- if I'm going uphill I won't reach the limit and I'll go faster than if I didn't have a motor
- if I'm on smooth flat & I'm fresh & keen then I'll pedal faster than the limit
- if I'm on smooth flat & I'm tired then I'll sit under the limit and still be going faster than if I didn't have a motor

But different people with different power & fitness will reach the limit at different times. Put an Olympic cyclist on an e-bike and they will no doubt say WTF is this motor for, it's never on!

All the "standard" (class 1) e-bikes we all tend to ride, I don't think it would matter if the speed restriction was lifted, as they don't go that much faster. But there are "non-standard" e-bikes with more powerful motors and they can go a lot faster. And if there wasn't a speed restriction then all of the "standard" motors would just keep getting more and more powerful, and faster and faster in the future.

One of my life philosophies is: everyone should be able to do whatever they like so long as it doesn't interfere negatively with someone else. And so everyone should be able to go as fast as they want and with as big a motor as they want

The only trouble comes when interacting with other people and doing so in a negative way (intended or accidental). Like crashing into someone or making them fearful of their safety. Some people don't have enough consideration of others and for them having a limit seems good - this doesn't apply just to someone cycling either, e.g. consider all the different personalities of people when they are driving a car. (And by the way, does anyone obey the speed limits when driving a car …)

I can imagine ideally there would be different limits at different times:
- dedicated area/trail where people only cycle with no limit on speed at all
- dedicated area/trail where people only cycle but with a speed limit
- area/trail/city centre where people cycle and walk and do other activities together
- road with no pedestrians nearby
- road with pedestrians nearby

But keeping track of whether everyone is obeying different speed limits is impossible - see above about driving speed limits So I can see why they set a fixed limit which just applies all the time.

I'm a sci-fi nerd though, so I can imagine and hope for a time when technology can prevent all accidents between people occurring and we don't need to have speed limits on anything!

 

[Bongofish]

Me personally I think there needs to be some restrictions. Having everyone doing 25 mph with motor assistance is getting a bit too far I think as you only have to be 14 and also you need to be real careful at that speed as if you come off it's like coming off a motorbike but in alot of cases with less protection.

I really think it just needs to be a speed limit for assistance of 20mph. I think this makes it safer for road use and not ridiculous that your going to have people doing 30mph through family parks .

If there wasn't any restrictions people would really take the piss with riding like dicks in public and then all of a sudden e bikes are in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons.

20mph should be a happy medium for everyone.

@Krisj I completely agree about education. When I first wanted an e bike a few months ago, EVERYBODY said that's cheating what's the point as they just thought you would press a button and not pedal. Now after having one my wife has bought one and family are really considering. My wife literally said I can't believe I can still feel my legs get a workout but I can go for further and longer than ever before.

 

[Rockyw]

The speed restriction is annoying for me. I live in New Zealand, and the speed limit is set at 32 km/r, and my Shimano motor assists up to 32 km/hr and to me, that is too slow on the flat. I can pedal my unassisted mountain bike up to 36 km/hr on the flat no problem, so I don't understand what the issue is. Surely they could have the assist limit a bit higher, say a speed that a normal bike couldn't be pedalled up to easily. One reason I didn't buy a Bosch powered bike, is that they are speed restricted to 25 km/hr here, even though the limit is 32 km/hr. The bosch bike feels like the brakes are on when it hits 25 km/hr. When the warranty runs out on my bike engine, I will look at derestricting mine.

 

[Interpaul]

The 15.5 mph limit is too low, 20mph as suggested would work I reckon. My bike is unrestricted but rarely spend a lot of time above 20mph.

I commute on cycle paths and being much above 20 when there is dog walkers, or my personal favourite runners with headphones on makes avoiding them tricky if you are at 25mph or above.

Having said that if its quiet I nail it, you just have to consider other users.

 

[Krisj]

Great responses ??
The point I’m trying to make is a non assisted mtb can travel at the same speed as an ebike on flat and downhill they only come into there own on hill climbing which can only be done at a still safe speed
Imagine been on your normal mtb and a limiter kicking in @ 17mph there would be an out an out up roar in the cycling world
I still can’t see any draw backs to ebike’s speed been restricted unless it’s been riden by some super human.

 

[Sherman]

Average speed of the average cyclist is below 25kph. And pedelecs are allowed where bicycles and pedestrians mix. I guess they don't want a loophole for fast vehicles on shared paths and cycle lanes.

 

[knut7]

The pedelec was created to make en e bike that's as close to a normal bike as possible, while still giving us some advantages from the motor. Where I live, the bike infrastructure is said to be built for speeds up to 25kph. It makes sense not to have the bike assist over what the infrastructure is designed for. By keeping power and speed pretty low it can be regulated as a regular bike. The pedelec and its parts isn't subject to type approval, no need for license plate, no need for insurance, no need for MC grade helmets. You get a bit of motor assistance so you can ride to work without needing a shower when you arrive. I think this is a good idea. I don't want people to go faster on infrastructure that is shared with kids, dogs, etc. If you just want to ride on roads, and you don't want to obstruct traffic, get an s-pedelec. It'll do 45kph. But you need a sturdy helmet and you will need a license plate and insurance. And you can't ride all of the bike infrastructure. Better yet, get an electric moped or mc. An s-pedelec with 500Wh battery won't get you far at higher speeds.

But why souldn't we use more powerful bikes on trails? There is no bike infrastructure constructed for 25kph there. Laws prohibiting motorized vehicles on trails usually do so to protect the trails, wildlife and other trail users from the speed, noise, pollution and wear caused by motorized vehicles. The pedelec doesn't really cause any of these things. But try increasing speed/power, and the electric bike suddenly becomes a contraption that the surroundings need to be protected from. I'm happy for the opportunity we have to use pedelec ebikes in the nature, but if tuning becomes a major problem then removing access for the pedelec is the easiest solution.

 

[billwarwick]

I agree with others that 20mph would be a more sensible limit as we use our bikes not just on trails but on the roads as well and that little bit extra would make a difference. I think the problems that we face in the future are idiots charging about on chipped ebikes, and us all getting tarred with the same brush. Sadly just recently, someone got knocked over and killed by a cyclist who happened to be on an ebike but could have been on any type of bike. There was a negative two page spread in a sunday paper warning of the dangers of ebikes. The bike hadn't been chipped but imagine the uproar if it had have been.
For the riding that I do offroad, the present limit is ok, and I cant imagine myself charging through a forest at 30mph even if I wanted to, but some advanced riders might want something extra, and if they are skilled enough riders then that is ok with me. Each to their own, but people riding like twats is in the future going to affect us all, either with a change in the law regarding the speed limit, or trail centres being closed to us etc.
As I don't know much about the subject a couple of questions.....
Is it much of a job to switch from restricted to unrestricted and back again?
Is it expensive?
Does it use the battery up a lot faster and reduce the riding distance?
As I said, 20mph would suit me fine but cant see it happening anytime soon.

 

[R120]

My view is very simple - there needs to be a restriction, but it needs to be sensible - 20mph for me is the sensible level for this.

At the moment my worry is that E-Bikes are a somewhat sensitive subject, and people derestricting them is only going to lead to bad headlines when something goes wrong. I don't care if people do or they don't, and there is a wider public perception problem where most people lump all e-bikes together and think a Pedelec is no different to some home made 4000wh monster.

However i think that because the limit in the uk/eu is quite low, it leads to more people derestricting them, whereas if it was at 20mph i doubt many would bother.

Myself i see no need to derestrict mine as i have never found ti to be annoying, unless riding on flat roads.

Interestingly i had a conversation with an MTB guide/trainer the other day, and he said his understanding of the law was that there was no restriction on riding the bike off road, and that the law only refers to road use. No idea how true that is

 

[Gary]

On the flat 17mph is not difficult to hold on an mtb (or 20+mph for a mile or so), on a roadbike and on a day with no wind 22mph is easy enough to hold for ages (or 25+mph for a few miles).
Max sprinting on speed on the flat on my road bike and BMX is somewhere around 35-40mph. Quite a bit higher than on my Emtb when de-restricted.
sprinting and flat single track is where the 15mph cut out power yoyo is most annoying. D you choose to keep pedalling harder? freewheel and pump the trai once you're over the limit. Or do you just stay at an annoyingly slow 14.5mph?

Yes. 20mph is a far more sensible assistance cut out limit for an Emtb. But 25 would be even better. Unrestricted as said above Emtbs are still slower than non-Ebikes anyway. But you can hold a higher average for longer

I keep hearing arguements from non-Emtb owning cyclists of obnoxious ant-social Ebikers abusing the power/speeds un-restricted emtbs are capable of. I've yet to see or even hear a story from any source I'd trust of it actually happening IRL. There are dicks who ride normal bikes so it stands to reason there will be with Emtbs too. Being a dick has anything to do with the bikes though and the bikes certainly don't need legislated against.

 

[Gary]

Ps. I thought we were only meant to discuss this in the...Deristricting Forum?

 

[Krisj]

Sorry dude I didn’t know until you posted there was one Nice one
Good reply though ??

 

[Gary]

Sorry dude I didn’t know until you posted there was one Nice one

Yeah, No problem. The derestricted forum is a bit hidden away isn't it?
I'm happy to talk about this openly but I don't think all members are. (plus there are different rules, penalties and issues to consider in different places around the world)
Maybe @Rob Hancill will move it, dunno

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Yeah, No problem. The derestricted forum is a bit hidden away isn't it?
I'm happy to talk about this openly but I don't think all members are. (plus there are different rules, penalties and issues to consider in different places around the world)
Maybe @Rob Hancill will move it, dunno

Think it’s a good debate to have and as long as we don’t go down the ‘how to’ deristrict happy for it to stay here.

 

[billwarwick]

Sorry, I’m new here. Didn’t realise it had all been discussed in depth earlier.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Sorry, I’m new here. Didn’t realise it had all been discussed in depth earlier.

No probs at all ? Deristrict section is tucked out the way.

 

[Airz]

I agree with what most have said on here and can see both sides of the argument. I do find it frustrating when I'm going down hill and round berms that suddenly change to steep uphill and you have no assistance until you scrub a load of speed. I find it really breaks up the flow of the trails when it does this so I can see why deristricting is an attractive option.
On the flip side the people making these laws/policies have to create them to account for the lowest common denominator rather than the sensible masses which in this case could be a 14 year old kid showing off to his mates who then crashes at 36mph (if there were no restrictions) while not wearing helmet.
You could say the kid could be doing that speed under there own power but realistically on an ebike its easy to get to that speed anywhere whereas on a normal bike most people struggle to get over 20-25mph on the flat.

 

[Gary]

Bluddy kids ruining EVERYTHING

 

[Krisj]

We Would have got away with it if it wasn’t for them pesky kids ?

 

[Tamas]

The pedelec was created to make en e bike that's as close to a normal bike as possible, while still giving us some advantages from the motor. Where I live, the bike infrastructure is said to be built for speeds up to 25kph. It makes sense not to have the bike assist over what the infrastructure is designed for. By keeping power and speed pretty low it can be regulated as a regular bike. The pedelec and its parts isn't subject to type approval, no need for license plate, no need for insurance, no need for MC grade helmets. You get a bit of motor assistance so you can ride to work without needing a shower when you arrive. I think this is a good idea. I don't want people to go faster on infrastructure that is shared with kids, dogs, etc. If you just want to ride on roads, and you don't want to obstruct traffic, get an s-pedelec. It'll do 45kph. But you need a sturdy helmet and you will need a license plate and insurance. And you can't ride all of the bike infrastructure. Better yet, get an electric moped or mc. An s-pedelec with 500Wh battery won't get you far at higher speeds.

But why souldn't we use more powerful bikes on trails? There is no bike infrastructure constructed for 25kph there. Laws prohibiting motorized vehicles on trails usually do so to protect the trails, wildlife and other trail users from the speed, noise, pollution and wear caused by motorized vehicles. The pedelec doesn't really cause any of these things. But try increasing speed/power, and the electric bike suddenly becomes a contraption that the surroundings need to be protected from. I'm happy for the opportunity we have to use pedelec ebikes in the nature, but if tuning becomes a major problem then removing access for the pedelec is the easiest solution.

My thoughts exactly. The restricted assist speed puts the motor assisted bikes in the bicycle category and they can be used with the same conditions as regular bicycles. How cool is that?
Want to ride faster? Ride from your own power or buy an s-pedelec or moped. De-restricting just fuels the hate and argument against ebikes and very counterproductive in the long run. From the lawmakers’ standpoint when push comes to shove it will be easier to remove all ebikes from the bicycle category than trying to do the impossible and go after the de-restricted ones.
Personally, the 25kph is no issue for me, I have much higher average speeds than on my analog trail bike.
If 25kph is not enough, start lobbying for a higher limit. It’s a better way than de-restricting and screwing over everybody on the long run...

 

[Mabman]

To me it is not the restriction as much as how it kicks in and out, sometimes a few klicks before the actual legal limit. Way too annoying for my ADD issues. Do that with any other thing with a motor or even on a regular bike and see how many people like it.

I ride open source no restriction bikes here in the US and use myself, according to the terrain/conditions/amount of others around, as the restrictor and that works just fine, just like it always has with cars, moto's, jet skis, snow skiis etc..

I fully realize that there are always bad apples but they are in every bushel available and if you see someone being an arse feel free to give them a hard time about it. If the po po sees them they will too but it doesn't mean the whole segment should be penalized.

 

[MattyB]

Comparing ebikes to conventional pushbikes and crying foul because there is no limit for them is a fair point, but it's not the one the lawmakers are worried about. The reason we are limited to ~15mph in the EU is because they wanted to make a clear demarcation between ebikes and mopeds/scooters (which have to be type registered, taxed and insured).

I guess they were concerned that if ebikes could do 25-30 then people with scooters would switch to an ebike and be travelling along cycle and shared use paths at top speed causing accidents. They would be put under pressure by the motor industry to even up the laws for electric and IC powered scooters, and that's more faff than they want to be bothered with. It's just simpler and easier for them to limit ebikes to 15mph - after all, there are not anywhere near enough disgruntled ebikers for this to be a vote loser. This is why I think any attempt to up the assistance limit for type 1 ebikes in the EU is doomed to failure; such an attempt could even end up with additional speed restrictions being placed on traditional bikes as an unintended consequence.

 

[MartinW148]

A lot of sensible comments and I personally think that a 20mph/32kph limit shouldn't be cause for concern, anything more and yes I think safety issues abound like insurance, forcing helmet law and use of public cycle paths.

I think a road e-bike would be safer in traffic with a 20mph minimum and as has been said, many road riders keep above this speed anyway.

I followed a commuter from the station on a non e-bike drop bar and in his slipstream we happily cruised along at 17 mph.

I personally have no desire to de-restrict mine and I think those that do are inviting the law to question all of us.

 

[MattyB]

I suspect if Brexit wasn't dominating the political agenda so much the cycling laws might have been revisited by now after that case involving the lady killed by the fixie rider a few years ago; the UK laws on cycling are pretty antiquated and unfit for purpose. I personally would have no problem with a speed limit of 15mph for cycles on shared usage pedestrian/cycle paths, with cyclists on dedicated cycle paths and roads limited to whatever the speed limit is for cars. Even then though I doubt there would be political will to move the ebike assist limit even as far as 20mph.

 

[Gary]

Yes. Speed limits on shared paths are a good idea.
Speed limit is utterly irrelevant of E-bike speed restriction though.
And any non-Ebike or restricted Ebike can easily be ridden at more than 15mph on the flat by an able bodied rider.

 

[Jrwilliams7]

Personally I upped my speed limit to 25 mph, simply because my bike felt like the brake was on over 18 mph. I can ride my traditional bike much harder and faster but the ebike is for trails I’d never ride on a pedal bike. I can not beat my starva KOM on flat land with my kenevo vs my 29er.

Point is if you feel the need to BeLevo your bike do it. If the speed limiter has no affect on your riding leave it .

 

[Tamas]

Yes. Speed limits on shared paths are a good idea.
Speed limit is utterly irrelevant of E-bike speed restriction though.
And any non-Ebike or restricted Ebike can easily be ridden at more than 15mph on the flat by an able bodied rider.

Any ebike can easily be ridden more than 15mph on the flat by an able bodied rider. The point of the ebike is not that you should be able to ride faster than a non-ebike. If the higher speed is the preference the the s-pedelec is there with 45kph assist speed and can be ridden as any moped.

 

[MattyB]

Yes. Speed limits on shared paths are a good idea.
Speed limit is utterly irrelevant of E-bike speed restriction though.
And any non-Ebike or restricted Ebike can easily be ridden at more than 15mph on the flat by an able bodied rider.

Agreed on all points, I just don't think the politicians will see any benefits to them to upping the assist limit - there are no votes in it and they will be too worried about Daily Fail articles like this...

Electric bikes may be green and trendy, but last week they claimed their first British victim | Daily Mail Online

 

[Gary]

Tamas. you missed my point entirely.
An Emtb (even derestricted) will NOT have as high a max speed on the flat as a similarly spec'd non Ebike. Average speed will be faster yes. but even with the assist you'll struggle to get that extra 15+ lb up to as high a max.
and you won't actually be able to ride a 15mph restricted Emtb at as high an average or max speed as a lighter bike on the flat (shorter distances anyway)
45kph is not fast. and it's really not all that difficult to reach for a regular cyclist to reach on any bike on the flat.

I think what you're missing here is that a lot of people derestrict their Emtbs simply because they are slower in certain circumstances than their non e bike would be. BECAUSE of the daft 15mph assist limit.