E-bike banned now !
- Thread starter nv70
- Start date
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite
LOL won't happen in normal countries..
She could have been hit by a motorbike or a car, so what would they do then? Ban motorbikes and cars
She could have been hit by a motorbike or a car, so what would they do then? Ban motorbikes and cars
2WheelsNot4
E*POWAH Master
If you were to point out to any of those involved in wanting to ban E-bikes, the statistics for road deaths involving cars(or motorbikes) you would be met with total silence.
You could point out to them that in the US there has been 53 fatalities involving E-bikes, between the years 2017-2021 IN TOTAL, and that deaths involving a car averages 40,000 per year, so the equivalent would be 160,000 across those 4 years.
Again you'll be met with silence, and they just won't want to discuss it.
You could point out to them that in the US there has been 53 fatalities involving E-bikes, between the years 2017-2021 IN TOTAL, and that deaths involving a car averages 40,000 per year, so the equivalent would be 160,000 across those 4 years.
Again you'll be met with silence, and they just won't want to discuss it.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
Part of the problem is that it is a matter of terminology. The e-bikes shown were electric bikes. Nobody I saw was pedalling.
I didn’t see a single eMTB in the video. I did see ebikes with throttles and pedals riding on roadways and traffic. Likely used as commuters or for recreational purposes.
Some of these e-bikes are not restricted or are de-restricted. IMO the speed restrictions in North America are responsible/ reasonable (20mph/32kph). The lower speed restrictions in the EU may be contributing to the de restricting market …therefore higher speeds are more likely or easily achieved.
I agree with Steve, terminology is part of the problem. Lack of knowledge is also a factor.
Some of these e-bikes are not restricted or are de-restricted. IMO the speed restrictions in North America are responsible/ reasonable (20mph/32kph). The lower speed restrictions in the EU may be contributing to the de restricting market …therefore higher speeds are more likely or easily achieved.
I agree with Steve, terminology is part of the problem. Lack of knowledge is also a factor.
Yes, it's easier to put everyone into one bucket instead of identifying the specific problem...much like Spin's post on firearms. City councils, county councils, state governments, and federal governments everywhere rarely spend the time to identify specific problems with specific solutions. It's easier to make some sweeping public statements and then throw a regulatory and legal blanket over the whole issue...whatever it is...and move on so they don't miss the champagne and caviar brunch at the country club. Governments at every level seem to have gotten extremely lazy...except when it comes to their personal agendas.
well to be fair I used to rip a 400cc sport atv down the street or take my rotax max 125 kart out for a little joyride when I was younger. Atleast the surrons are quiet!
I remember one neighbour telling me he never wanted to see me do that again lol. Lo and behold atvs and karts are still not banned! 
RodneyH
New Member
they need to label Surrons and alike, e-dirt bikes, or e-moto or e-motorcycles. Lets be honest, that is exactly what they are. Just because the testla is electric, doesn't mean it isn't a "car". The young kids are giving e-bikes a bad name. Don't get me wrong, I got in trouble when I was a kid, riding my YZ85 on the street, BUT I was respectful on the streets, so I wouldn't get in trouble on the way to the dirt/local hills.
My brother has a talaria mx4. There pretty sweet bikes but there meant for moto trails and stuff.
Desert_Turtle
Active member
We do have a problem with kids ripping their Surrons and dirtbikes on our city streets. I’m definitely in favor of some rules for e-bikes on public roads but they need to be specific by ebike class. Our class 1 EMTBs should not have any limitations. Even unrestricted it’s hard to pedal an emtb much more than 30. I can easily do that on my road bike without breaking a sweat. The sticky part is when you start talking about any ebike that has a throttle and can go more than 25. Once a throttle operated ebike can travel the speed of a moped, or beyond, it should share the same rules and regulations. Thats not completely fair but once you start maxing out residential speed limits with 100% electric assist, I feel like it does get dangerous. Banning electric scooters is idiotic but I understand why people would want to do it. We have a bunch of them that we use on vacations and I had mine and my sons reflashed so that they could go faster….like 15-17mph. That’s probably pushing it, those speeds might be excessive for public sidewalks….but that’s not the problem. The problem is the super-scooters that can go 40+. I’m all about the fun stuff. Where I live it’s pretty common to see people, in general, riding their dirtbikes and surrons back and forth, a mile or two, from their homes to the trails, I’m totally cool with that. What I’m opposed to is kids, especially, using their Surrons and dirtbikes as transportation. Often they are are in shorts & sandals w/o a helmet and ride really recklessly. That type of behavior is what’s driving all of these bans.
NuckaMan
Member
I live in a affluent part of California, so I saw $5k toys like Surrons by local kids pretty early on when they got to the states (right before Covid I think).
Surrons and other heavy e-motorcycles became a serious problem with local hikers/MTB bikers, along with a few high profile incidents that involved deaths unfortunately, local authorities were forced to take action on them.
Current times, parents who bought them and the Surron owners got the message loud and clear and not a common sight out on the local trails and streets like they used to.
Ebikes though, for all ages, street or off-road use, pleasure or for commuting (mostly kids going to school or out and about and surfers heading to the beach with their boards), has absolutely exploded here in CA (especially along coastal cities). While technically they are illegal in most parks and trails, there is basically zero enforcement on them, about 40%-50% MTB'ers are on ebikes that I can tell everytime I go out and I do foresee some type of revisions to allow most ebikes everywhere in the future.
Surrons and other heavy e-motorcycles became a serious problem with local hikers/MTB bikers, along with a few high profile incidents that involved deaths unfortunately, local authorities were forced to take action on them.
Current times, parents who bought them and the Surron owners got the message loud and clear and not a common sight out on the local trails and streets like they used to.
Ebikes though, for all ages, street or off-road use, pleasure or for commuting (mostly kids going to school or out and about and surfers heading to the beach with their boards), has absolutely exploded here in CA (especially along coastal cities). While technically they are illegal in most parks and trails, there is basically zero enforcement on them, about 40%-50% MTB'ers are on ebikes that I can tell everytime I go out and I do foresee some type of revisions to allow most ebikes everywhere in the future.
YZDude
Member
The problem is the gray area between pedal assist and what in reality, is an electric-powered scooter or motorcycle.
We generally don’t hand a kid a YZ65 2 stroke Moto bike and let them rip around the neighborhood, at least not for long…the e-bikes that fall into same category will eventually get recognized as such. License them like any other small-bore cycle.
We generally don’t hand a kid a YZ65 2 stroke Moto bike and let them rip around the neighborhood, at least not for long…the e-bikes that fall into same category will eventually get recognized as such. License them like any other small-bore cycle.
There's definitely going to be some changes coming, in some areas it's pretty serious. Recently riding in the OC of So. CA any bike trail was off the hook with out of control eBikes. Don't see it the same with eMTB's so much as those riders are generally more seasoned. Around OC beach areas and popular bike trails ya best keep your head on a swivel.
I thought that on e-bikes you had to pedal, not just throttling the gaz of these "fat" heavy motorbikes?! These are MOTORbikes, no?
Here in europe it is not that better with all these electric 2 wheels vehicles.
When you pay taxes you are allowed to go fast 45km/h (that is very fast if you mix them with the others) , when not, you are restricted to 25km/h. Governement ask manufactures to implement these rules... :/
Anyway, more restricted rules everytime a tragic incident is made by a small minority of poeple, sad...
Here in europe it is not that better with all these electric 2 wheels vehicles.
When you pay taxes you are allowed to go fast 45km/h (that is very fast if you mix them with the others) , when not, you are restricted to 25km/h. Governement ask manufactures to implement these rules... :/
Anyway, more restricted rules everytime a tragic incident is made by a small minority of poeple, sad...
I saw one
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
You probably paid more attention that I was prepared to do.I saw one
For better or worse here in Oregon they just passed a new law updating e-bike classifications and who can use them.
"As passed by the House, it would ban e-bikes to be ridden by anyone younger than 16 without a driver’s license or permit, while anyone over 16 could ride any class of e-bike."
It unfortunately took the death of a young man to prompt this legislation but hopefully it will keep people safe and more educated, but my gut tells me kids will still use any class and some parents wont pay attention to what their children are doing.
"As passed by the House, it would ban e-bikes to be ridden by anyone younger than 16 without a driver’s license or permit, while anyone over 16 could ride any class of e-bike."
It unfortunately took the death of a young man to prompt this legislation but hopefully it will keep people safe and more educated, but my gut tells me kids will still use any class and some parents wont pay attention to what their children are doing.
Whilst we are fully aware what so called Ebikes are, it needs to be accepted that lawmakers etc ( including the media) mostly dont have a clue!!
We all do ourselves no favours by using the word "E bikes".
In the US ( or atleast parts of it??) you have class 1 "E bikes" , here in the UK and most of Europe we have EAPCs ( electrically assisted pedal cycles)..........both of which have nominal motor power limitation, max assisted speed limits, and motor assist only when pedalling. Those classifications require no licence, registration insurance etc.........................and that is what the vast majority of our EMTBs are.
We would all benefit from referring to these as "E cycles" since they enjoy the same lack of vehicle regulations as any other pedal cycle.
In the UK any electrically powered 2 wheel vehicles that does not comply with the EAPC regulations is a moped or motorcycle with all of the road transport regulations that apply to any ICE powered motorcycle/moped. It seems US states would be well advised to do the same.
We all do ourselves no favours by using the word "E bikes".
In the US ( or atleast parts of it??) you have class 1 "E bikes" , here in the UK and most of Europe we have EAPCs ( electrically assisted pedal cycles)..........both of which have nominal motor power limitation, max assisted speed limits, and motor assist only when pedalling. Those classifications require no licence, registration insurance etc.........................and that is what the vast majority of our EMTBs are.
We would all benefit from referring to these as "E cycles" since they enjoy the same lack of vehicle regulations as any other pedal cycle.
In the UK any electrically powered 2 wheel vehicles that does not comply with the EAPC regulations is a moped or motorcycle with all of the road transport regulations that apply to any ICE powered motorcycle/moped. It seems US states would be well advised to do the same.
The word E-bike should not be used, as it wraps up all electric small transport in one mis-understood word.
Pedelecs, ie electric mountain and road bikes, are absolutely not the electric motorcycles that are causing all the problems and deaths, but we are all being blamed for deaths caused by 60mph+ electric motorcycles. Same situation with e-scooters.
Pedelecs, ie electric mountain and road bikes, are absolutely not the electric motorcycles that are causing all the problems and deaths, but we are all being blamed for deaths caused by 60mph+ electric motorcycles. Same situation with e-scooters.
Completely agree. The problem is changing the vernacular with the bicycle world uneducated
It's seriously getting out of control ebikes that allegedly you don't need to pedal go more than 25kph and need to be a minimum age of 16 seem to be everywhere and where I live, thrashing about no helmets even passengers on the back dogging the traffic
Don't get me wrong I'm no Saint but who foot the bill incase of accidents
With these idiots on the road
Don't get me wrong I'm no Saint but who foot the bill incase of accidents
With these idiots on the road
In the UK, it's completely out of control. Before covid, the use of illegal e-scooters and electric motorcycles could have been nipped in the bud, but during covid, millions of them were sold and used, so it's become totally un policeable. Various police forces keep saying they will have a crackdown, but whatever they do has absolutely no effect on use.
What doesn't help, is major retailers like Halfords are selling millions of the things as though they are legal, with a small disclaimer buried in the small print that they are not legal. Then you have internet sales which sell them with not a hint that they are illegal.
www.halfords.com
The picture doesn't look like it was taken on private land despite a tiny bit of small print, and the full legal disclaimer is buried right at the bottom of the page. All the descriptions of the scooters are very carefully worded to advertise them for public use, without actually saying so. People are using this ignorance of the law, and the blatant advertising and selling by major retailers as an excuse when challenged by the police.
What doesn't help, is major retailers like Halfords are selling millions of the things as though they are legal, with a small disclaimer buried in the small print that they are not legal. Then you have internet sales which sell them with not a hint that they are illegal.
Electric Scooter Buyer’s Guide | Halfords UK
Our e-scooter buyer's guide has all the info needed to help choose the electric scooter that's right for you.
www.halfords.com
The picture doesn't look like it was taken on private land despite a tiny bit of small print, and the full legal disclaimer is buried right at the bottom of the page. All the descriptions of the scooters are very carefully worded to advertise them for public use, without actually saying so. People are using this ignorance of the law, and the blatant advertising and selling by major retailers as an excuse when challenged by the police.
Sur-Ron - Light Bee X(LBX)
High Performance. Visual Perfection. The Light Bee X encompasses everything you could ever want in an electric bike. Don't accept imitations.
sur-ron.co.uk
Whilst the Light Bee L1E bike is sold as road legal, it just says it complies to European stands, but says nothing about what type of licence you need to ride it, and how to tax, MOT and insure it. All the other bikes are sold without a hint that using them in public is illegal, and this example says how good it is on 'trail and track'. the use of the word 'trail' hints at ok to use on public land. Trails in the UK are generally classified as Byways Open to All Traffic, Other Routes with Public Access, Restricted Byways, Bridleways, and Footpaths. All public access land and the laws apply to all of them.
I think the government needs to have warning signs implemented on the the derestricted bike that come into the country
Similar idea as what they do with smoking, and a campaign on the TV wising people up to the facts
Similar idea as what they do with smoking, and a campaign on the TV wising people up to the facts
It could have been nipped in the bud by the UK Government actually getting their fingers out and simply bringing in legislation that allows their use within a legal framework. It was in 2015 that Boris stated he wanted them to be legalised and the last bollox the Tories came out with is 'we're running trials until April 2026'. So a staggering 11 years to sort out and thats even if they don't move the goalposts again. Must be some kind of record in terms of kicking a can down the road. In the meantime just about every other EU country has legislated them for years.
Sounds about right with this government
???? they are legislated! If they do not conform to the EAPC regulations they are classed as a moped/motorcycle and the law that applies to them includes the need for type approval, registration with the DVLA, Tax, insurance ETC.
The loophole is that these vehicles can be sold for use solely on private land with the owners permission. So it is that loophole that needs to be shutdown somehow.
Other than that the issue is not about legislation but about Trading Standards seeking out vendors of illegal vehicles and shutting them down.
The loophole is that these vehicles can be sold for use solely on private land with the owners permission. So it is that loophole that needs to be shutdown somehow.
Other than that the issue is not about legislation but about Trading Standards seeking out vendors of illegal vehicles and shutting them down.
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