Dream ebike of the future. What would you want?

[Rob Rides EMTB]

With all the stuff thats hitting the bike tech news recently it got me thinking... If you could have a bike with the current tech / around the corner tech what would it be?

Mine would be something like this

• 160 mm Travel with 'Live Wire' adaptability to adjust on the fly when needed
• 500 Wh lighter cheaper in frame battery but have modular capability to add another 250 Wh inside the frame for epic all day rides
• Fast Charging to 80% in 30 minutes. Trail centres with charging stations. Industry standard charging adaptor (industry should get together and agree a single standard)
• Modular lights that run off the battery. Must be able to be removed and there be very little visible bracketing left over. Runs off bike battery (I enjoy night rides!)
• Wireless Shifting (not gonna lie the SRAM AXS looks amazing)
• Smart stuff like GPS tracking for anti theft (so many bikes being stolen at the moment). Ability to add / remove a screen, for BLEvo functionality.
• Silent motor with seamless disengagement
• 18 KG
• 29er wheels
• 5 year warranty for all manufacturing defects
• A shit hot dealer to take care of you

 

[ULEWZ]

My wish list. An EZesty type stealth Ebike (same Fazua motor) with a dead quiet motor, quick-removable battery, location for a second battery, and under $5,000 dollars. Must look good also with no cockroach egg sack like battery hanging off the frame. 650b tires/rims, dropper post, 11-speed, 4 pot brakes, WTB volt seat, 150-160mm of travel. That is all.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

With all the stuff thats hitting the bike tech news recently it got me thinking... If you could have a bike with the current tech / around the corner tech what would it be?

Mine would be something like this

• 160 mm Travel with 'Live Wire' adaptability to adjust on the fly when needed
• 500 Wh lighter cheaper in frame battery but have modular capability to add another 250 Wh inside the frame for epic all day rides
• Fast Charging to 80% in 30 minutes. Trail centres with charging stations. Industry standard charging adaptor (industry should get together and agree a single standard)
• Modular lights that run off the battery. Must be able to be removed and there be very little visible bracketing left over. Runs off bike battery (I enjoy night rides!)
• Wireless Shifting (not gonna lie the SRAM DXS looks amazing)
• Smart stuff like GPS tracking for anti theft (so many bikes being stolen at the moment). Ability to add / remove a screen, for BLEvo functionality.
• Silent motor with seamless disengagement
• 18 KG
• 29er wheels
• 5 year warranty for all manufacturing defects
• A shit hot dealer to take care of you

Completely agree with the list, but why is the wireless shifting on the list? I have never tried, but does it make a difference other than simply having an esthetic free of cables? I would add killer looks too though.

 

[Kangr]

I would like:
150-170 travel, with a good suspension system horst/vpp
New updated shimano motor/battery with higher torque and possibly something like a 800wh battery (anything above 700 will do)
easily removable battery
Internal gearbox system
advanced display interface system that syncs with your riding glassed for a HUD, this would also sync with your phone to tell you important calls/messages. plus the ability to tell the system which numbers would be considered important and what notifications not to display.
Good geometry
A bell
Ideally a weight between 40lb and 45lb
Fox 36 fork
top of the range fox air shock
Shimano brakes
170 -180mm dropper post

 

[More-read-than-ride]

By the way, a maintenance free drive train would be good too...

 

[Doomanic]

I'd settle for a reliable motor but that seems to be out of reach of all the manufacturers at the moment.

 

[More-read-than-ride]

I'd settle for a reliable motor but that seems to be out of reach of all the manufacturers at the moment.

Dream big my friend, dream big!!!

 

[Paul Mac]

For me, intergrated gear box and shaft drive for no maintenance, also with a fully automatic mode if required.
1000 wh battery that is half the weight and size of a 500 wh battery now.

 

[Dee Scee]

200mm dropper

real knobbies

quick charge battery - 30 mins

a more precise and robust shifting system that is not constantly requiring adjustment. it should only need to be adjusted as the chain lengthens or parts actually wear.

improved waterproofing / washability

a bike that comes with political advocacy for trail access.

make it so!

 

[flash]

-27.5 wheels. Don't know why but they feel more fun to ride, for me.
-Don't need lights that suck off the main battery. Just end up with a dead bike and no lights. I already have a headset bracket on each of my bikes for the exposure lights. And if they ran flat I would have a.....
- A USB port on the top tube for charging/running of external devices. So if you do want lights or other electrics you have a universal plug for them as well as emergency phone/GPS/light charging.
- Integrated GPS tracker plus movement detector and super loud piezzo screamer. Ability to "lock" the motor so it won't pedal via the app. Has it's own small battery so it runs without bike battery attached but is charged by main battery.
- Wireless shifting and dropper for easier install and no cable routing. Also leaves a bit more room for bigger battery system. Can be recharged via the above USB port if necessary.
- Choice of batteries between 500 and 1000 watt hour battery with fast charge. Integrated but easily removable. Proper car charge options.
- Energy recovery system during downhill or braking.
- Zero resistance on motor disengagement.
- Under 20kg.

Gordon

 

[R120]

there are many different things I would like to see, but TBH I will always want a hardtail, trail, and enduro bike, and what I want out of each would be different, but the common things would be:

• Motor with integrated gearbox and gates drive
• Sub 18kg
• 700WH battery, but as Rob has said a modular system that would allow you to swap out battery capacity depending on the ride you are doing
• Wireless shifting/control, and ability to easily chose between running a display or not - e.g no display for local burns, but the potential to mount a larger display with Nav etc for when out exploring, but wirelessly connected so no need to connect anything up.

 

[Doomanic]

The modular battery is a good idea but I'd like see several smaller batteries so you can rotate them in use.

 

[MattyB]

With all the stuff thats hitting the bike tech news recently it got me thinking... If you could have a bike with the current tech / around the corner tech what would it be?

Mine would be something like this

• 160 mm Travel with 'Live Wire' adaptability to adjust on the fly when needed
• 500 Wh lighter cheaper in frame battery but have modular capability to add another 250 Wh inside the frame for epic all day rides
• Fast Charging to 80% in 30 minutes. Trail centres with charging stations. Industry standard charging adaptor (industry should get together and agree a single standard)
• Modular lights that run off the battery. Must be able to be removed and there be very little visible bracketing left over. Runs off bike battery (I enjoy night rides!)
• Wireless Shifting (not gonna lie the SRAM DXS looks amazing)
• Smart stuff like GPS tracking for anti theft (so many bikes being stolen at the moment). Ability to add / remove a screen, for BLEvo functionality.
• Silent motor with seamless disengagement
• 18 KG
• 29er wheels
• 5 year warranty for all manufacturing defects
• A shit hot dealer to take care of you

You forget that the price needs to be less than £1k.... Who will be riding it, you or the flying pig?!!

Only joking. I rather like your list and very much hope it is fulfilled in the next 5 years, though I suspect it may take longer than that. I would only add that the battery needs to have at least a 50% increase in energy density to ensure it does not get too heavy, and that fast charging is not a panacea with current battery tech - it will definitely shorten cycle life and cause a quicker loss in capacity over time.

 

[Dax]

A lighter kenevo with cheaper batteries.

Agree about fast charging, would be great to be able to fast charge while I'm on lunch, although it's a rare day I run out of battery.

 

[Akiwi]

I agree with Robs list.
Maybe some sort of universal bus system that shares the power fom the main battery.
So the electric wireless gear changing, seat post height, lighting and even a simple place to connect Navi / charge your phone are all standard and integrated.

And of course this is a universal standard used by all manufacturers.

Then of course we need the coffee maker and warmed hand grips and seat ;-)

 

[galaga187]

I agree with a Rob’s list but it does remind me of a recent article I read on innovation.
I think input is needed in eMTB from other industries/sports to drive it forwards e.g transport, health, Fintech, or mountaineering

Quote from article
“It’s interesting that many iconic innovators share the same attitude that you need to believe ‘anything is possible’ to create truly groundbreaking innovations.

When asked if he believed in asking customers what they want – Ford replied:

“If I had asked them what they had wanted, they would have said a faster horse.”

He raises a valid point – sometimes people don’t know what they want and it requires some serious thinking ‘outside of the box’ to create incredible ideas that will change the world.”

Any thoughts on where ideas might come from?

 

[More-read-than-ride]

I agree with a Rob’s list but it does remind me of a recent article I read on innovation.
I think input is needed in eMTB from other industries/sports to drive it forwards e.g transport, health, Fintech, or mountaineering

Quote from article
“It’s interesting that many iconic innovators share the same attitude that you need to believe ‘anything is possible’ to create truly groundbreaking innovations.

When asked if he believed in asking customers what they want – Ford replied:

“If I had asked them what they had wanted, they would have said a faster horse.”

He raises a valid point – sometimes people don’t know what they want and it requires some serious thinking ‘outside of the box’ to create incredible ideas that will change the world.”

Any thoughts on where ideas might come from?

I think in terms of battery, not much doubt it will come from automotive, the need for high density, high capacity and low weight are key and on the top of the political agenda en most contries. Secondly, I think that the current trend toward electric individual transportation, like segways, will bring on new ideas for powertrains that make the current chain and cassette opsolete, and hopefully with an even more direct and natural feel that the power your leg creates, get translated very linearly into the bike.

Finally, in terms of agility and feel, I would like to see the newest trends in some sports like fitness and running coming into biking: for instance barefoot biking shoes, added elasticity in the right places of the frame, bar etc or perhaps braking by weight distribution. All to create a more "organic" feel of the bike, like it is part of the body. It will certainly make it more challenging at first, but then most likely more rewarding.

 

[Kangr]

were forgetting THE ONE most important part.... the bell.
Bell technology has not seen a lot of innovation. The bell is the way forward, or at least the way forward without having to stop for pedestrians. often overlooked but the bell impowers a small skill that not many other parts of the bike do.... the ability to ride up behind pedestrians and scare the **** right out of them in a legal and approved manner. No more moaning about they couldn't hear you. No more tuting under breath. No more raising of various digits in a show of anger.
Now you get a polite thank you for warning them in such a courteous manner, often using the local dialect for such things, something like "F*** off you @#*%*". you might often get the local salute of thanks. Which for some reason looks like the raising of digits in anger but obviously its not anger as you have used a bell and have been most courteous.

there are a couple of ways of improving the bell first we could apply trail dampners so that bumps, jumps and trail chatter don't set it ringing.
The second would be volume levels. We could also employ a small microphone inside the bell. with this attached to a inframe amplifier and a nice speaker at the front. This way a volume level could be reached so that even the hard of hearing will be warned, even up to distances of half a mile.

 

[Dax]

Good news @Kangr this guy has got that innovation:
Video: Frustrated London cyclist uses air horn to clear cycle lanes of pedestrians

 

[R120]

I have one of these on the hardtail, which I tend to use more on rides where I come across dog walkers and the like, Knog Oi Bell. Doesn't rattle about or make a noise unless you want it to

 

[R120]

On a flip side of EMTB development, I would also like to see far more stripped down bike with less integration and unnecessary tech thrown at them. I really like what Radon have done with the Swoop that Rob has on test for example, they have essentially stripped the bike down to the bare necessities of making an EMTB, with external battery and the motor simply mounted into the frame, and as a result come up with a pretty lite bike. for a Bosch Motored EMTB


A bare bones bike appeals to me, I like the idea idea matching something like the new Sram AXS wireless groups to a bare bones EMTB, that is super easy to maintain. Seems a lot of the day to day issues and niggels members have with bikes are partly born out of complex integration and fiddly cable rounding/battery integration

 

[MattyB]

On a flip side of EMTB development, I would also like to see far more stripped down bike with less integration and unnecessary tech thrown at them. I really like what Radon have done with the Swoop that Rob has on test for example, they have essentially stripped the bike down to the bare necessities of making an EMTB, with external battery and the motor simply mounted into the frame, and as a result come up with a pretty lite bike. for a Bosch Motored EMTB


A bare bones bike appeals to me, I like the idea idea matching something like the new Sram AXS wireless groups to a bare bones EMTB, that is super easy to maintain. Seems a lot of the day to day issues and niggels members have with bikes are partly born out of complex integration and fiddly cable rounding/battery integration

That bike looks really nice, but it falls foul of the classic Bosch problem - due to motor shape and size the chainstays are all 499mm long. Everything else looks good geo wise, but with such a long back end it has to compromise handling on the downs (though it should be a monster climber). Bosch really need that new motor asap to stay competitive.

 

[dirt huffer]

• No BMS in batteries to make them more compact, cheaper, lighter weight. Everyone using a balance charger to keep cell health
• More standardize charging ports, even if it means several different style "standards"
• More bikes with modular battery options - Like Rob said. Easier to add/remove battery capacity in 250wh increments. 250,500,750...

 

[MattyB]

• No BMS in batteries to make them more compact, cheaper, lighter weight. Everyone using a balance charger to keep cell health

I don't think that going to happen purely from a safety point of view. These are mainstream consumer products now, and no-one wants them bursting into flames - as a result I can't see that BMS moving from the bike to the charger. Doing so may not even be possible - remember the BMS does more than just manage the charge cycle, it also does things like monitoring cell health and engaging limp home functionality during a ride if certain criteria are hit (motor temp, individual cell voltages etc). Even if you could remove it the amount of weight saved would be pretty minimal I would imagine (a few 100g maybe).

 

[dirt huffer]

I don't think that going to happen purely from a safety point of view. These are mainstream consumer products now, and no-one wants them bursting into flames - as a result I can't see that BMS moving from the bike to the charger. Doing so may not even be possible - remember the BMS does more than just manage the charge cycle, it also does things like monitoring cell health and engaging limp home functionality during a ride if certain criteria are hit (motor temp, individual cell voltages etc). Even if you could remove it the amount of weight saved would be pretty minimal I would imagine (a few 100g maybe).

From what i've seen, BMS's going bad are usually the cause of battery failures (and fires). And may of them don't do a good job of balancing cells either, and you have no way of monitoring if they cells are actually balancing. You just have to take it for granted that the BMS is doing it's job, but you have no way to monitor it.

Balance chargers on the other hand, give you ability to monitor that cells are balancing properly (very important) and if a balance charger goes bad, you replace the charger, not the battery - much cheaper.

Also - the computer can control when the bike should go into "limp" mode when voltage gets low.

Anyways... this is my dream eBike battery

 

[dirt huffer]

I should probably say that battery fires are a result of a failed BMS. If we get rid of the BMS and balance charge our batteries we could potentially eliminate fires. The R/C community uses balance chargers almost exclusively. It's easy and much safer IMO

 

[steve_sordy]

Some form of increased security that makes the bike inoperable without the necessary code (fingerprint, like on my phone?). Yes I know that the bike can still be dismantled for parts, but at least they'll have to carry it and not just ride it away!

 

[steve_sordy]

were forgetting THE ONE most important part.... the bell.
...............................

I use either a discrete cough or I call out as appropriate. I've had zero problems so far.
It works as long as their hearing works or they don't have earbuds on.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Some form of increased security that makes the bike inoperable without the necessary code (fingerprint, like on my phone?). Yes I know that the bike can still be dismantled for parts, but at least they'll have to carry it and not just ride it away!

I just read from @eebit that the new FLYON has some neat security features.

 

[Gary]

18 KG

Just this, But with the same range/torque, Better motor durability and fully customisable assistance speed restriction limit. (I realise none of this is never going to happen on a durable 170mm FS enduro emtb but one can dream)
Other than weight/motor durability my Vitus is pretty much perfect.
I don't really like gadgets. And definitely don't want electronic gearing etc. I'm in the minority here who still prefers the simplicity and maneoverability of riding my 4X hardtail to my Ebike. (I actually still prefer my Capra to it aswell but the eeb always wins as it's so much easier to get to the good trails assisted)