Dodging the lynching

[outerlimits]

Which device are you using? If you say a phone you’ve answered your own question.

I did 5k miles of cycling last year, all with Strava and all with a Garmin gps. It might not be entirely accurate but it is absolutely consistent. You have to make allowances for GPS or satellite coverage but that’s not a fault of Strava.

I threw down 11 short runs of a section of downhill at the local. I record with my phone and Garmin but only upload from the Garmin.
The runs were all about the same with times between 1:26-1:31 but one recorded as 4:11 and that was on the Garmin. The phone times were not going the same but within a second of the Garmin times.however the 4:11 was recorded as 1:31.
Another ride of 65km recorded I had done 1123km and traveled at atop speed of 936kmh but that was another Garmin device I once had. Oh and the phone also at times records funny data.
Consistent it ain’t that’s for sure. Sometimes it’s dam right unstable.

 

[MattyB]

Which device are you using? If you say a phone you’ve answered your own question.

I did 5k miles of cycling last year, all with Strava and all with a Garmin gps. It might not be entirely accurate but it is absolutely consistent. You have to make allowances for GPS or satellite coverage but that’s not a fault of Strava.

I use a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt. Most of the time it gives good results on Strava, but occasionally it snafus. I suspect you are right that this is primarily about satellite coverage, but the root cause is pretty much irrelevant - it means that Strava results are never truly consistent, and it’s certainly not accurate enough for riders to be crowing about taking a KOM by a second as many do online/in their favourite coffee and cake stop.

 

[outerlimits]

I just like overtaking non ebike purists up hill whist yelling Strava. That’s the one thing I love about Strava.
/S

 

[dirt huffer]

I just like overtaking non ebike purists up hill whist yelling Strava. That’s the one thing I love about Strava.
/S

I hold my farts until i see a non-ebiker up ahead

 

[Benson]

Sometimes it’s dam right unstable.

Sounds like user error to me mate. Did you forget to enable auto pause??

 

[Macone]

I always monitor my rides using Strava and also my Samsung gear 3 watch. results are normally within 2 to 3 percent of each other. Variations for the same ride can vary 2 to 3 percent for distance. Only real anomaly I always get is Metres climbed. One 80k ride I do can show 1700m on Strava on one day and then 1300m on Strava on another day. From a distance/time monitoring point of view, the 2 to 3 percent variations make no real difference to me as how I feel on any given morning when I wake up has more effect on my ride than that. As a means for me to monitor what I am doing over Weeks/Months, I find Strava very useful. I guess this is because I use it for Me and don't care about other peoples rides (no disrespect intended).

 

[MattyB]

Yep, that’s the key thing - if you are using it to monitor your own overall performance over time and large numbers of rides it’s plenty accurate enough. If you are using it to brag about your performance over 500m of road a week last Tuesday in the cafe, not so much (plus the majority of your friends and family probably think you’re dull as ditchwater ?).

 

[MarkH]

I use strava every time logged as a normal bike otherwise I can't compare against my mate's times. Having said that none of us are interested in climbing segments - it's all about the downhill times. My mates have been amazed that my Levo leaves them for dead on the downhills mainly as fitness isnt the limiting factor it was before. Everyone of them that has rode it, is looking to an ebike as their next ride.

 

[Mad Mark]

I only use strava so I know where I've been & to tell me how many miles I've done. ?

 

[Bohn101]

Well this really does feel like a, "nest in a tree of trust and understanding". Seriously thou, the initial feedback here is great.

Yeah, Boulder, certainly has their noses in the air, but does have cute character. I've gotten attitude from people while riding on MTB specific and posted trails, which was shocking.

Strava is pretty awesome. If you hate it, you don't have to use it. If you want to go nuts, go Premium. At a glance I can easily see my self-progress and how insanely fast some people are.

Some of the most fun training I've had is going for KOM's (and I've even gotten one, check it out!)

Strava is pretty consistent and accurate, but is also fairly easily faltered from poor signal or GPS hardware. Most people are using phones or watches which have 10 sec - 1Hz GPS frequency updates vs 10 - 100Hz superbike grade data logging units. Can't fault Strava for that.

No doubt, someone running around smashing longstanding hard-earned KOM's on e-bikes without proper credit is shameful. However Strava not having selectable e-bike workouts is easily implemented is on them, along with backlash and inner community war it creates.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Look at the title of this Wall Street Journal article!

Ready, Set, Cheat: Electric Bikers Zoom Past Mad Pedalers on Cycling App

Mountain biker Trevor Shepherd was feeling triumphant after reaching the top of a steep, rocky trail near his home in Manchester, England—posting a personal-best time of 3½ minutes.

He took out his phone and quickly recorded the accomplishment on his Strava app, which lets cyclists see how their times stack up against others.

On the app later that evening, the 50-year-old advertising executive was stunned to see another rider had handily beat his time a few months earlier. Upon looking at her profile picture, he noticed she was sitting atop an electric-powered bike on the same gnarly section of trail.

“The lady in question is up there with a time of 1:55. It’s obvious that was on an e-bike,” said an exasperated Mr. Shepherd.

Trevor Shepherd was irked by an e-biker who posted a fast time.

The growing popularity of health and exercise apps has led to more people fudging on their fitness. They’re hacking fitness trackers like Fitbit, inflating their step counts and “forgetting” to record that afternoon bag of sour cream and onion potato chips.

On Strava—a social network for runners and cyclists, with 36 million users globally—many cyclists are in an uproar over alleged e-bike cheaters, who they claim are stealing their virtual trophies.

Instead of grunting up steep inclines, e-bikers can hit a button for a motorized boost to help them cruise uphill, wrecking Strava leaderboards in their wake, cycling critics say.

“You can be on a ride and think, ‘Boy, I’ve really got it going today,’ ” Mr. Shepherd said. “And then later you check Strava and you’ve been beaten by a 75-year-old on an e-bike.”

Strava’s app uses the GPS on riders’ devices to record cycling times. Many weekend warriors use it as a training log, as well as a way to track friends and encourage followers.

Some of the more elite athletes compete for virtual trophies, little gold-colored icons that are awarded when the rider’s time is among the top 10 fastest on a particular segment of road or trail. There is even a “trophy case” where users can show off their digital accolades, including the coveted “King of the Mountain” gold crown for capturing the No. 1 time slot.

Riders must now contend with the likes of Matt May, a 50-year-old high-school teacher from suburban Chicago, who bought an e-bike last summer. He has zipped from middle of the pack to the top 10 on about a half-dozen rides.


On one ride in September, he placed third out of 156 cyclists. The profile pictures of some of the riders he beat on that stretch show muscular athletes in action, wearing racing jerseys and intense looks.


Mr. May’s profile picture shows a bottle of vodka strapped to his e-bike with a bungee cord.

Matt May's Strava profile picture shows his e-bike with a bottle of vodka.

“I’m not sure what’s more fun, riding my e-bike or upsetting the purists on Strava,” Mr. May said.

E-bikes represent the fastest-growing slice of the U.S. bicycle market today. Sales totaled $135 million for the 12 months ended in October and are up more than eightfold since 2014, according to market-research firm NPD Group Inc. Still, e-bikes account for just 4% of the $3.5 billion overall U.S. market.

Strava says users should designate e-bike rides via a drop-down menu on the app at the start of their activity, which keeps them off the leaderboards. It also uses an algorithm to detect what it describes as “obvious violations,” such as going too fast—say, if a user is actually in a car.


“The cycling segment leaderboards are for conventional bicycles and reflect human-powered achievement rather than unattainable, motor-assisted times,” Strava said in a statement.


Users who suspect cheating can flag a ride as suspicious, which yanks the virtual trophy from the rider. Alleged cheats are notified when a ride has been flagged. They can use a pull-down menu on the app to acknowledge they were on an e-bike, delete the entry or clear their name—and get their trophy back—by choosing: “The activity is fine, trust me.”

Some pedal-pushing purists are pressing the company to take tougher action. On message boards, some have suggested more-robust algorithms to flag likely e-bike entries, or a requirement that users must wear a heart monitor to qualify for leaderboards.


Robert Davis, a retiree in his mid-60s from Marfa, Texas, has lobbied Strava to make it easier for e-bikers to identify themselves. “I think a lot of them are just trying to goof around with people,” he said—which doesn’t go over well with the more competitive users. “Some people take this crap seriously,” he added.




Lennard Zinn, a custom-bicycle builder in Boulder, Colo., who writes for cycling website VeloNews, said he switched to an e-bike last spring due to a heart condition but continues to use Strava because he wants to track his rides.


He tries to remember to choose the e-bike setting on the app and said he wishes there were separate leaderboards for e-bikers.


“I get flagged sometimes,” he said. On the more competitive routes, he makes sure to designate his e-bike status, so “I don’t trigger anybody.”


Jeff Disbrow, another Colorado cyclist, is among those who have called Mr. Zinn out. While he had read about Mr. Zinn’s ailment and felt bad for flagging his rides, it was a matter of principle, he said, so he did it anyway—twice.


“I’m flagging people all the time,” said Mr. Disbrow, a 55-year-old entrepreneur and former professional triathlete who has won dozens of King of the Mountain crowns. He admits to having spent hours sifting through strangers’ Strava feeds to flag likely e-bikers and other illicit rides, like tandem bikers.


Mr. Disbrow has trained himself to identify suspicious entries. Unknown names that pop up into the top 10 are a common tip-off. Riders who post top times but have skimpy training logs are another giveaway. Sometimes he’ll look at the data from a rider’s heart-rate monitor to see if there was sufficient huffing and puffing on a climb.


“I know that sounds kind of sick,” Mr. Disbrow said. “Maybe it’s my competitive nature.”


Cheat Sheet


Whether to make themselves feel better or to look good in challenges, cheaters can find ways to trick popular health and fitness apps.


• Aaptiv — In the audio-based fitness classes, the personal trainers can’t see when you give up on doing your crunches. A spokeswoman says that “it’s a known fact among our members that our trainers are so good at what they do that they ‘know’ when you are starting to give up.”


• Fitbit — The app is designed to work with its fitness trackers. To add to their Fitbit steps, some have tried tapping their feet while sitting down, attaching the tracker to a power drill or strapping it to a dog.


• MyFitnessPal — Its searchable food database, for tracking eating, has more than 300 million items. “Doughnut” comes up with multiple options. Is the one on your plate 200 calories or 450? Go ahead, pick the lower number.


• Sweatcoin — This app pays users crypto currency, redeemable for fitness-related items, for being active. It uses advanced algorithms to stay ahead of the dozens of websites that offer ways to hack the system (one suggestion: leave the phone on a running washing machine).


Write to Mike Colias at [email protected]

 

[khorn]

All my Strava rides on my Levo I classify as E-bike rides. Chasing KOMs on an Emtb in the non-Emtb section is simply pathetic in my opinion........

Karsten

 

[Dee Scee]

I use strava every time logged as a normal bike otherwise I can't compare against my mate's times. Having said that none of us are interested in climbing segments - it's all about the downhill times. My mates have been amazed that my Levo leaves them for dead on the downhills mainly as fitness isnt the limiting factor it was before. Everyone of them that has rode it, is looking to an ebike as their next ride.

Why so much hate and dismissal around here for folks that care about strava? It doesn’t hurt you if people want to log a fast time. Just one more fun thing about bicycles in the digital age. (kinda like e-bikes ya?)

also Mark H - I know what you mean about having to view it as a normal ride (non-ebike) to see the most segments and times. But I make sure to just look and see, then promptly edit to ensure it’s recorded as an e-bike ride before anybody gets the wrong idea.

Posting e-bike times to acoustic bike boards is pointless and ruins something many riders enjoy and rely on. If you’re gonna use the app, don’t ruin it for others!

 

[outerlimits]

Why so much hate and dismissal around here for folks that care about strava? It doesn’t hurt you if people want to log a fast time. Just one more fun thing about bicycles in the digital age. (kinda like e-bikes ya?)

also Mark H - I know what you mean about having to view it as a normal ride (non-ebike) to see the most segments and times. But I make sure to just look and see, then promptly edit to ensure it’s recorded as an e-bike ride before anybody gets the wrong idea.

Posting e-bike times to acoustic bike boards is pointless and ruins something many riders enjoy and rely on. If you’re gonna use the app, don’t ruin it for others!

It’s not about hate of Strava. It’s more to do about those who go round beating their chest at the data that it gives them. It’s not accurate, and when you tell them this they go into a fit of rage. It only bugs me or hurts me if you like if I have to hear about Strava being the holy grail of a gauge of a riders performance. Keep it to yourself and don’t burden others with the fiction of Strava. I really don’t give a flighty feck if you KOM’d or beat my time, it’s fiction.

 

[Jeff McD]

Just to broaden your perspective, here is a recent negative regarding Strava KOMs (This has nothing to do with Ebikes): not many mountain bikers where I live because the trails are few and very difficult with tight technical and steep climbs. This trail system was built by mountain bikers for mountain bikers at the request of DLNR beginning in 1997, and a hiking group was supposed to build separate hiking trails but that never happened so that our trails are now multi use.

Recently while descending a multi use trail, our two fastest riders went for a strava KOM time on acoustic bikes without telling me, while I was riding my levo and came third behind them, with three more acoustic riders behind me.
Some additional history: I am the head trail builder and trail maintenance leader for our trails. Every Thursday and Sunday I am up there doing trail work, in addition to leading trail maintenance crews every few months. I make it a point to stop and chat with every hiker that I encounter, educate them on how these trails came to be and are maintained. Because I am alone I almost always see the hikers coming along before they see me. I routinely slow down and stop to chat. This never scares them. It has created an incredible amount of goodwill between the two groups. The hikers really appreciate us taking care of the trails There are no other forest reserve trails for recreation on this side of the island at all.

If I had known that my buddies were going for KOM I would have cautioned them to stop if they encountered any hikers on the trail until we all could catch up to them and then pass them safely. However on the above ride the two fast guys blew by them without stopping and just hollered that more were coming because they wanted to see if they could get a KOM, which the second rider did. The frightened hikers quickly pulled off the trail into dense forest so that I could not see them coming down at high-speed behind the first two. There were a group of approximately eight Chinese tourists followed by a local woman with her dog who was showing them the trails. Because they were effectively hidden from me until I was right on them I blew past them at excessive speed on a straight away that allowed you to let off the brakes completely. As I went by I finally glimpsed them out of the side of my eye and the fear in their eyes was to the point of the extreme. I immediately slammed on the brakes, apologized and informed them there were several more riders coming. The young dog was actually crying and inconsolable it was so frightened. I headed on down to the bottom as I could not think of anything else to say. I felt betrayed as the ambassador for our trails, but subsequently realized it was only due to unforeseen circumstances related to KOMs. I had been denied the usual visible warning signs of hikers up ahead.

We all discussed this subsequently and realize now that Strava KOM seekers could get us replaced as the designated trail maintenance organization/mtn bikers thrown off these trails by DLNR some day. We have subsequently agreed that since the first rider on a descent is the only one who sees the group coming, he/she must slow and stop in the middle of the trail before the hikers so that others cannot blow by at high-speed. Screw KOM! We will only proceed once the entire group has regrouped.

I hope mountain bikers can adopt this policy universally to avoid conflict.

 

[outerlimits]

Just to broaden your perspective, here is a recent negative regarding Strava KOMs (This has nothing to do with Ebikes): not many mountain bikers where I live because the trails are few and very difficult with tight technical and steep climbs. This trail system was built by mountain bikers for mountain bikers at the request of DLNR beginning in 1997, and a hiking group was supposed to build separate hiking trails but that never happened so that our trails are now multi use.

Recently while descending a multi use trail, our two fastest riders went for a strava KOM time on acoustic bikes without telling me, while I was riding my levo and came third behind them, with three more acoustic riders behind me.
Some additional history: I am the head trail builder and trail maintenance leader for our trails. Every Thursday and Sunday I am up there doing trail work, in addition to leading trail maintenance crews every few months. I make it a point to stop and chat with every hiker that I encounter, educate them on how these trails came to be and are maintained. Because I am alone I almost always see the hikers coming along before they see me. I routinely slow down and stop to chat. This never scares them. It has created an incredible amount of goodwill between the two groups. The hikers really appreciate us taking care of the trails There are no other forest reserve trails for recreation on this side of the island at all.

If I had known that my buddies were going for KOM I would have cautioned them to stop if they encountered any hikers on the trail until we all could catch up to them and then pass them safely. However on the above ride the two fast guys blew by them without stopping and just hollered that more were coming because they wanted to see if they could get a KOM, which the second rider did. The frightened hikers quickly pulled off the trail into dense forest so that I could not see them coming down at high-speed behind the first two. There were a group of approximately eight Chinese tourists followed by a local woman with her dog who was showing them the trails. Because they were effectively hidden from me until I was right on them I blew past them at excessive speed on a straight away that allowed you to let off the brakes completely. As I went by I finally glimpsed them out of the side of my eye and the fear in their eyes was to the point of the extreme. I immediately slammed on the brakes, apologized and informed them there were several more riders coming. The young dog was actually crying and inconsolable it was so frightened. I headed on down to the bottom as I could not think of anything else to say. I felt betrayed as the ambassador for our trails, but subsequently realized it was only due to unforeseen circumstances related to KOMs. I had been denied the usual visible warning signs of hikers up ahead.

We all discussed this subsequently and realize now that Strava KOM seekers could get us replaced as the designated trail maintenance organization/mtn bikers thrown off these trails by DLNR some day. We have subsequently agreed that since the first rider on a descent is the only one who sees the group coming, he/she must slow and stop in the middle of the trail before the hikers so that others cannot blow by at high-speed. Screw KOM! We will only proceed once the entire group has regrouped.

I hope mountain bikers can adopt this policy universally to avoid conflict.

Amen !
KOM seekers flying past other riders and hikers is a real problem. Infact I think it is a real treat to trails in some places. Let’s face it, if you are pushing that hard, you are on the limit of man and machine and it endangers other users. There are times and places you can push the limits but the whole Strava thing seems to make people do that everywhere.
On another note, a lot argue ebikes wreck the trails. I don’t believe this to be true, but even if it is the impact would be minimal. I think users that don’t help to maintain the trails they ride are a bigger problem. This goes for both Mtb and eMtb users.
I do help maintain my local trails, and I give kudos to others that do too.

 

[Macone]

oh the poor little kiddies not getting their virtual trophies. I cant believe these cry babies. They must have been inconsolable as toddlers when their siblings hid their teddy bear

 

[Dee Scee]

Amen !
KOM seekers flying past other riders and hikers is a real problem. Infact I think it is a real treat to trails in some places. Let’s face it, if you are pushing that hard, you are on the limit of man and machine and it endangers other users. There are times and places you can push the limits but the whole Strava thing seems to make people do that everywhere.
On another note, a lot argue ebikes wreck the trails. I don’t believe this to be true, but even if it is the impact would be minimal. I think users that don’t help to maintain the trails they ride are a bigger problem. This goes for both Mtb and eMtb users.
I do help maintain my local trails, and I give kudos to others that do too.

True! The undeniable dark side of strata / KOM stats... I wonder if some of our larger advocacy groups could convince strava to remove KOM and competitive boards for dirt descents? Could be managed with a few keystrokes by the website builder.

 

[Benson]

It’s not about hate of Strava. It’s more to do about those who go round beating their chest at the data that it gives them. It’s not accurate, and when you tell them this they go into a fit of rage. It only bugs me or hurts me if you like if I have to hear about Strava being the holy grail of a gauge of a riders performance. Keep it to yourself and don’t burden others with the fiction of Strava. I really don’t give a flighty feck if you KOM’d or beat my time, it’s fiction.

To be honest mate, and I really don’t want to be inflammatory, but it sounds like the issue is you and not with the tens of thousands of Strava users. Have you had a particularly bad experience with a Strava user?

 

[Benson]

If I had known that my buddies were going for KOM I would have cautioned them to stop if they encountered any hikers on the trail until we all could catch up to them and then pass them safely.

Sorry but this has nothing to do with KOMs or Strava. We all like to ride our bikes fast on public trails and whether we’re chasing a virtual medal or just enjoying the wind in our hair with our mates I bet most (all?) of us are guilty of riding at a speed in excess of what would be considered safe if a dog or kid ran out. Sure, there are plenty of Strava douches chasing KOMS on public trails but I bet there are just as many douches doing exactly the same thing without Strava.

This thread really is saddening, so much division and hatred.

 

[outerlimits]

Sorry but this has nothing to do with KOMs or Strava. We all like to ride our bikes fast on public trails and whether we’re chasing a virtual medal or just enjoying the wind in our hair with our mates I bet most (all?) of us are guilty of riding at a speed in excess of what would be considered safe if a dog or kid ran out. Sure, there are plenty of Strava douches chasing KOMS on public trails but I bet there are just as many douches doing exactly the same thing without Strava.

This thread really is saddening, so much division and hatred.

Oh , you really don’t get it....
I’ll just leave it at that then

 

[Norange]

Sorry but this has nothing to do with KOMs or Strava. We all like to ride our bikes fast on public trails and whether we’re chasing a virtual medal or just enjoying the wind in our hair with our mates I bet most (all?) of us are guilty of riding at a speed in excess of what would be considered safe if a dog or kid ran out.

Disagree, from what he wrote it’s clear they were aware of fellow trail users but didn’t slow as they were KOM chasing. Strava does encourage racing on public use trails which is a negative. Obviously it does have many positives too though.

 

[Brianjonesphoto]

Can we get back to this thread about doing what we can to get along with other trail users who think we should not have any access because the are slightly different than other mountain bikes.

Bash Stava or whatever in a thread for that propose. We are way off track here.

As I said before in this thread kindness generally wins over people that think you I am different and don’t belong. Being an asshole proves that I don’t belong.

Thanks.

 

[R120]

I got into trouble with local roadies on Strava because I held a KOM, one of them started following me, then pestering me with messages. The problem actually was I was riding up a dirt track next to the road climb in question, but starva thinks you are doing the road segment because the track is just beside the road, behind some trees. He told me to create a new segment, I told him to bog off as I only use it to map rides.

 

[Bohn101]

....However Strava not having selectable e-bike workouts is easily implemented is on them, along with backlash and inner community war it creates.

Um, so I opened Strava yesterday. They now DO have a selectable "E-Bike Ride" in Sport selection! I also read however, there are no leaderboards for them, once marked as e-bike, there is no ranking available. Hope that changes in the future.

P.S. I do like to go fast. In fact I love it, along with catching air, even if it's tiny. I don't want to say I've topped out ever superbike & car I've ever owned...so I won't.

However, I don't run over or into people on MTB trails, street or closed circuit race tracks. Considering everything, I consider myself to be a safe rider.

 

[softtailcruiser]

Using Specialised’s Mission Control app, at the end of a ride it automatically uploads it to Strava (assuming you’ve linked the apps) and then when you go into Strava it shows as an eBike ride without having to change anything. That might only work for that particular app and brand, of course. Handy.

 

[nicklej]

Using Specialised’s Mission Control app, at the end of a ride it automatically uploads it to Strava (assuming you’ve linked the apps) and then when you go into Strava it shows as an eBike ride without having to change anything. That might only work for that particular app and brand, of course. Handy.

I didn't know this. I might set it up so I can track my rides more easily. Thanks!

 

[Bohn101]

So I'm a super excited newbie, my Focus Sam² shows up tomorrow! My boo, pup & I went out for a ride today. Will this be my last ride on the Ibis Mojo HD3!?

I wanted to post some photos from today. Things may look different going forward. In the last few days I got my Stealth Hitch installed for my 435i and the 1UP Quik Rack. Both of them together are so awesome. Now that I'm riding again, I'm not missing the SuperTundra.

 

[billwarwick]

nice photos
looks like they were taken on the blue trail at Cannock Chase

 

[Kangr]

Yep deffo the Blue (cough) those are the small hills of brocton coppice if im mistaken