Dji avinox- Amflow

[Lexle]

Why would any manufacturer share bike plans with a bike manufacturing competitor which would be required to integrate a spec (or could just be copied afterwards)? That's suicidal.

Amflow screwed themselves (imo) by going into the bike manufacturing business.

They could have sold a LOT of motors, but instead they choose to sell a few bike/ motor packages. Contrary to opinions around here, 99% of e-bike riders are NOT going to buy an Amflow in pursuit of the DJI motor. Most e-bike riders walk in to their local shop and buy the pretty one/ discounted one/ brand they know/ friend's recommendation/ etc.

I will get mine next week. AMFLOW managed to get a lot dealers in Germany within a few months. Some dealers report of a 3 digit preorder in a single branch from Riders even before preorder phase of the dealer started.. Let‚s wait and see . Besides Pinion MGU and DJI there is still nearly no customer demand on other eBike Motors in Germany currently.. not even on Gen 5, they sell Gen 4 at massive discounts and have still on stock for years.

 

[Lexle]

Is there any credible evidence to support the rumour that Bosch will increase the power of the new motor to compete with DJI, other than that’s what they did years ago on the Gen 4? Seems to me more optimism than rationality.

If they increase power they have to handle more heat. as Gen5 is not really better in derating than Gen4, I‘m not sure they they will jump from 600Watts max output close to 850/1000+ of DJI. First tests show that DJI has no Derating problems even on permanent boost Mode

And Bosch presented 85 NM and max 600 Watts as „the sweet spot“ for Gen5. Let‘s wait and see

 

[killerade]

If they increase power they have to handle more heat. as Gen5 is not really better in derating than Gen4, I‘m not sure they they will jump from 600Watts max output close to 850/1000+ of DJI. First tests show that DJI has no Derating problems even on permanent boost Mode

And Bosch presented 85 NM and max 600 Watts as „the sweet spot“ for Gen5. Let‘s wait and see

There's a video on YouTube that shows the new motor has little to no thermal derating compared to previous model, so a power bump might be coming in the near future.

 

[Bengy22]

And Bosch presented 85 NM and max 600 Watts as „the sweet spot“ for Gen5. Let‘s wait and see

That's if you trust Bosch's 600w figure, which I don't. Ebike-mtb tested a gen 4 and found it will output nearly 750w at the crank, not even input wattage before inefficiencies. I've also seen a youtube channel test a turbo levo, same thing peaked 25% higher than claimed. I wonder if DJI is doing the same though

 

[Lexle]

There's a video on YouTube that shows the new motor has little to no thermal derating compared to previous model, so a power bump might be coming in the near future.

Can you Post a Link? At Velomotion Testbench it Shows something different

That's if you trust Bosch's 600w figure, which I don't. Ebike-mtb tested a gen 4 and found it will output nearly 750w at the crank, not even input wattage before inefficiencies. I've also seen a youtube channel test a turbo levo, same thing peaked 25% higher than claimed. I wonder if DJI is doing the same though

never ever..

Sorry in German but you will see the results on a trustable testbench also Brose SMag and Shimano ..

 

[Lexle]

Thats. The latest „bike“ Test Review..

 

[irie]

So pretty much the same except for 4.7W (~34%) less pedal resistance.

 

[emtbeast]

So pretty much the same except for 4.7W (~34%) less pedal resistance.

Well not exactly...you might want to look up in that picture where it points out it's strong point:
Stark: Zieht bei hohen kadenzen voll durch. It means that at high cadences it pulls really hard.
To an untrained eye that says nothing, but to me it tells that they worked on the torque/cadence curve, meaning that high levels of torque being available in a wider cadence band with a slightly lower power output(also can be seen on the photo) at that cadence, especially high up where most motors until now dropped the torque significantly(a normal thing with DC motors).
Cadence and Torque are elements of Power, all three are related and effect each other. Now it's the way how the system electronics are programed to interpret the sensor signals for the motor and battery and the motors internals(transmission) tuned, effects how the end result will be.
I have been talking about this cadence/torque band curve since the emtb era started, and it's been till now I see first real steps in improving it. Interesting in an interview with the Spesh guys they also said that for the new Levo motor iteration they didn't focus on spec numbers but on the cadence/torque curve for a better feeling of the motor/bike...

 

[irie]

Well not exactly...you might want to look up in that picture where it points out it's strong point:
Stark: Zieht bei hohen kadenzen voll durch. It means that at high cadences it pulls really hard.
To an untrained eye that says nothing, but to me it tells that they worked on the torque/cadence curve, meaning that high levels of torque being available in a wider cadence band with a slightly lower power output(also can be seen on the photo) at that cadence, especially high up where most motors until now dropped the torque significantly(a normal thing with DC motors).
Cadence and Torque are elements of Power, all three are related and effect each other. Now it's the way how the system electronics are programed to interpret the sensor signals for the motor and battery and the motors internals(transmission) tuned, effects how the end result will be.
I have been talking about this cadence/torque band curve since the emtb era started, and it's been till now I see first real steps in improving it. Interesting in an interview with the Spesh guys they also said that for the new Levo motor iteration they didn't focus on spec numbers but on the cadence/torque curve for a better feeling of the motor/bike...

I was referring to the immediately preceding post which is reposted below. HTH.

Thats. The latest „bike“ Test Review..

View attachment 148491

 

[nrgbod]

 

[whitymon]

yeah, pretty underbike to me. I would not even like nor want doing this jump line on such bike. Most of us just do not have such perfect skill to be able to either enjoy or doing it in a safe way more than once except with luck!

To me current world is like the one where the apple ultra watch was out, there is hype as it makes views and money. So people will try tons of different situation with this bike, especially when sponsored.

Again fun to watch, absolutely awful geo/parts/frame for a bike park. I bet people could make video about it roaming on an XC trail this will work too.

Too much hype, I hope people will not buy it for the wrong reason.

 

[Suns_PSD]

None. But I'd have to change my hub to fit an 11 speed cassette. Which means I might as well get a new rear wheel. You'd have the same problem with the Amflow, as it's hub will be an XD hub.

Anyway. Getting a little off topic.

I don't know your particular hubs, but usually you can purchase a new freehub for about $35 and just swap that part on your current hub with minor disassembly to swap from XD to whatever it is that you need.

Sounds like the small initial investment would be saved back by running the longer lasting and less expensive to purchase LinkGlide.

GL.

 

[steve_sordy]

Ref the video from @nrgbod post #490.
I know the rider has way more skills than me, but the bike still had to perform. If it can do that, then it would support me at my pedestrian speed down the same trail (Yikes!). Or faster on an easier one!

 

[Emailsucks98]

Ref the video from @nrgbod post #490.
I know the rider has way more skills than me, but the bike still had to perform. If it can do that, then it would support me at my pedestrian speed down the same trail (Yikes!). Or faster on an easier one!

It survived one run, even with those EXO/EXO+ casings. I wouldn't read too much into it. Ive had a heavier bike fold in half on A-line and did not enjoy walking down, or noticing all the ventilators and cut-up hydration packs off the trailside.

Also amazing is that they presumably let the bike up on the lift. WBP website is pretty clear that eBikes aren't allowed in the park. It just seems like totally the wrong tool for that job. But more good marketing.

 

[whitymon]

Ref the video from @nrgbod post #490.
I know the rider has way more skills than me, but the bike still had to perform. If it can do that, then it would support me at my pedestrian speed down the same trail (Yikes!). Or faster on an easier one!

This is where this is misleading.

Just no, one video, one run, influencer, not owning really the bike etc.

If you have perfect technique, perfect landing and all the skills, of course you can, but do not think an instant that you should do the same trail on the video, it is not built for that.

NB: remember that such trail need speed not having enough is as dangerous, casing, nose dive, rear landing, panic brake ...

People always think that because a dude succeed something in a video the product might be good for them doing the same. Just no, look at all the video of Blake on GMBN, he can use any bike to do anything, you cannot think this is relate to us.

On the long term you would reach more and more the cursor to the injury that would occur on such trail like the video plus I would definitely expect a frame crack on these jump by not being able to do perfect landing every time.

Just be careful and mindful.

 

[emtbeast]

I was referring to the immediately preceding post which is reposted below. HTH.

Yeah me also, to that in combo with yours.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

This is where this is misleading.

Just no, one video, one run, influencer, not owning really the bike etc.

If you have perfect technique, perfect landing and all the skills, of course you can, but do not think an instant that you should do the same trail on the video, it is not built for that.

NB: remember that such trail need speed not having enough is as dangerous, casing, nose dive, rear landing, panic brake ...

People always think that because a dude succeed something in a video the product might be good for them doing the same. Just no, look at all the video of Blake on GMBN, he can use any bike to do anything, once in a single video.

On the long term you would reach more and more the cursor to the injury that would occur on the video trail plus I would definitely expect a frame crack on these jump not are not able to do perfect landing every time.

Just be careful and mindful.

We rode this bike for a week in Whistler and Bellingham. It isn’t really suited to double black diamond trails and A line. But Will rode it down a lot of stuff in that week and it worked fine. In all of that the only thing it had was a loose axle.

It’s not a park bike at all but it was interesting to see how it worked out there.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Also amazing is that they presumably let the bike up on the lift. WBP website is pretty clear that eBikes aren't allowed in the park.

Is this true? We rode for a weekend there with e-bikes. And saw a load more. I’m sure there’s even hire stores with e-bikes in the village!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Amflow on Dark Crystal, Whistler. We did it twice.

 

[whitymon]

We rode this bike for a week in Whistler and Bellingham

I absolutely agree with the saying it is really good to see it can handle stuff but in the hand of experimented rider, with some nuances about which difficulty.

I still think that the way it is built and for, the constraint on the bike could lead to issue, it can happen sooner or later. Carbon frame are not really prone to tell/warn you correctly on that matter.

That does not remove anything from the bike itself, it seems like a great piece, I do also at the occasion take my aggressive trail for fun on such kind of line but with cautious and different type of riding as I am not an expert nor will ever be.

I see all day long people taking the wrong bike to the wrong place being injured that I could not pass away my warning.

 

[Emailsucks98]

Is this true? We rode for a weekend there with e-bikes. And saw a load more. I’m sure there’s even hire stores with e-bikes in the village!

I saw it here

But I am also not surprised if they let you up, especially with a lightweight eBike.
With an eBike I've only ridden Whistler outside the bike park, which is awesome! Best riding there is outside the park IMO.

If you ever make it back to Bellingham get in touch. What all did you ride here?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I absolutely agree with the saying it is really good to see it can handle stuff but in the hand of experimented rider, with some nuances about which difficulty.

I still think that the way it is built and for, the constraint on the bike could lead to issue, sometimes it can happen soon sometimes later. Carbon frame are not really prone to tell warn you correctly on that matter.

That does not remove anything from the bike itself, it seems like a great piece, I do also at the occasion take my aggressive trail for fun on such kind of line but with cautious and different type of riding as I am not an expert nor will ever be.

I see all day long people taking the wrong bike to the wrong place being injured that I could not pass away my warning.

I agree- it’s not an enduro bike or a park bike and not really designed for this. It’s a 150mm travel trail build

I just thought it was worth adding that from our experience it didn’t crack or fall to bits in a week of riding some harder stuff.

DJI market it as a category 4 trail bike so it is clear what the use case should be.

We used it to get around for the week to film some stuff on

 

[Jazzii]

Mine with coil. Today I rode both the enduro trails and the flow ones. Its weight is 20.9kg with pedals. My Fuel Exe with coil shock and battery extender is 20.2kg. Yes it's capable enough for enduro riding, yes it's quiet but not like a TQ, no rattling going downhill (maybe very little like cable in front frame triangle). Yes, speed unlocking works, yes, it's a quality product, no crap. It is pointless to discuss what enduro and what kind of bike park who rides on what bike, because it is extremely individual. And yes, it doesn't drive uphill but flies, Even trail mode is enough to fly uphill, I did not use boost and turbo

 

[killerade]

Can you Post a Link? At Velomotion Testbench it Shows something different

never ever..

Sorry in German but you will see the results on a trustable testbench also Brose SMag and Shimano ..

 

[steve_sordy]

Thanks for your concern guys, but relax, there is no way on earth that I would be doing anything like the A line.

 

[Astro66]

I don't know your particular hubs, but usually you can purchase a new freehub for about $35 and just swap that part on your current hub with minor disassembly to swap from XD to whatever it is that you need.

Sounds like the small initial investment would be saved back by running the longer lasting and less expensive to purchase LinkGlide.

GL.

I don't have a hub where you can swap. I even had my LBS check.

 

[jgf]

Has anyone heard rumblings of when this bike will be available in North America?

 

[sethimus]

I don't have a hub where you can swap. I even had my LBS check.

so you claim to have a hub that is only available with a micro spline interface but not with a hg driver? what's the brand?

 

[Astro66]

so you claim to have a hub that is only available with a micro spline interface but not with a hg driver? what's the brand?

I'll do better than that. I'll provide you with an exploded drawing. It's a Shimano SHIMANO SLX M7110. I've highlighted the hub.

If you knew of a HG hub that is that shape and fits. I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Doomanic]

Amflow on Dark Crystal, Whistler. We did it twice.

View attachment 148512

Sucks to be you, hey Rob…