FTFY
Dji avinox- Amflow
- Thread starter Farmernz
- Start date
Jonesy likes what he’s paid to like.
It’s the e-bike equivalent of expecting impartial purchasing advice from QVC.
Edit: too slow
Pyr0
E*POWAH Master
Shame there's no frame only option imho.
electricbogaloo
Member
Yeah, if you spec the frames similar a levo with removable battery and no rattling whatsoever will be around 1 to 1,5 kg heavier than this. So if you don't need the power and like a removable battery and a silent bike its still not that attractive. I think I'll wait what the future holds...
leix_toffee
Active member
Good review from Sam, fairly honest review including negatives he sees. This looks like a great system but will wait until the Bosch Gen 5 is released. Spec could be the ones to miss out if they are delaying the release of the new Levo with the new Brose Motor. Living in Ireland, I don’t think will see any DJI dealers here for quite a while.
I was riding with 2 guys involved in the International Tech sector just yesterday and one is looking for an e-bike and I mentioned the DJI and its incredible spec, not a brand I've ever heard of before the bike.
Anyways they both right away said: 'yah, new DJI product is close to being banned in the USA because the Chinese government was using the drones for information gathering...'
A google search returns this: "As of July 22, 2024, DJI drones are not currently banned in the USA, but the situation remains uncertain. The US Senate’s version of the 2025 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) does not include provisions to ban DJI drones, unlike the House version which incorporated the Countering CCP Drones Act. "
So who knows if we'll ever see them?
From what I'm seeing, the DJI motor/ battery/ software appears to be class leading, however the chassis (while looking lovely) is close, but not quite what I am looking for in my own e-bikes.
Hopefully Transition and others will have access to sell these motors at some point, but since DJI is also in the bike business, that might never happen.
DirkWisely
New Member
Who is Jonesy?
I'm somewhat skeptical they'll ban DJI drones. They have so much market dominance and lots of people would be very pissed. IMO it's political saber rattling.
I'm somewhat skeptical they'll ban DJI drones. They have so much market dominance and lots of people would be very pissed. IMO it's political saber rattling.
zerofunds
Member
Crazy world we live in, DJi, TikTok and Huawei and some of my favorite products. Lucky I live in New Zealand.
I wonder if they will sell the motor, battery and looming separately, once my 7th brose motor fails I'd like to say you know what, I'm gonna retrofit this beast into my specialized
I wonder if they will sell the motor, battery and looming separately, once my 7th brose motor fails I'd like to say you know what, I'm gonna retrofit this beast into my specialized
Really hope they do, like how the bafang motors are. Pick the frame you want a build it up yourself. That's where I usually am on here looking at the cool frame up builds in the DIY section.
xtraman122
Member
I would like them to but I really doubt it, almost none of these motor manufacturers want to deal with the average consumer. Imagine the support headache of the average Joe trying to figure all this stuff out, ordering the wrong thing, over torquing bolts, pinching wires, not understanding electrical concepts etc. It would be a disaster I’m sure.
The only way I could see them becoming available to consumers would be if one of the DIY frame OEMs like Dengfu or LC decide to become DJI customers and they could possibly sell a kit with a frame + electronics together. Still not sure if DJI would even want to sell to someone like that though, I could picture them only wanting their stuff to come on complete bikes, especially if agreements with other bike manufacturers might call for it.
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Although the spec's are good, I don't see a lot of reason to assume that they will be super reliable. Drones are a very different application for electric motors and electronics to bikes. Although the drones are tough, they only fly for what 20 minutes at a time and then hopefully land smoothly 99% of the time. Users are expected to be careful with them and limit their exposure to the elements. They need to be running at close to their maximum power and efficiency for most of the time.
Bikes are ridden hours at a time, in terrible conditions and experience thousands of small impacts/accelerations per hour and several heavier/larger impacts/accelerations too.
They may well have done an amazing job, but only time will really tell.
Bikes are ridden hours at a time, in terrible conditions and experience thousands of small impacts/accelerations per hour and several heavier/larger impacts/accelerations too.
They may well have done an amazing job, but only time will really tell.
xtraman122
Member
I see a lot of people saying this, but honestly, what in that motor would have come from a drone at all… It’s not like they took a drone motor or something and slapped it in a bike, this clearly would have been a new grass roots project for them that likely wouldn’t have had anything other than maybe software in common to the drones. I’m not saying it necessarily will be super reliable at all, but just saying because they made drones that it won’t be reliable seems a little tenuous. Would we be saying this same stuff if it was just a brand new company making a motor system?
DirkWisely
New Member
It looks like they took a look at the e-bike market from an external perspective, recognized all the problems, and tried to address them.
It would be weird if a company that did that didn't consider the demands placed on an e-bike motor with all the issues the legacy ones have had.
Doesn't mean they nailed it perfectly first time, but I'd optimistically assume it's at least as good as a Bosch/Brose/Shimano for reliability.
It would be weird if a company that did that didn't consider the demands placed on an e-bike motor with all the issues the legacy ones have had.
Doesn't mean they nailed it perfectly first time, but I'd optimistically assume it's at least as good as a Bosch/Brose/Shimano for reliability.
zerofunds
Member
I've heard this is the 10th version of this motor, so they've refined it a lot. They also have 14,000 employees so they have a massive pool of knowledge to pull from.
I wasn't saying it will be unreliable. Just that we don't know how reliable it will be. Bosch is an even bigger company with wider experience and still has taken (is taking) a long time and a lot of iterations to become reliable.
Expecting any motor system to last through years and years of use without needing parts replacing seems crazy to me. Motors ought to be designed for the customer or at least shops to easily swap out wear items like seals and bearings etc but none of them are. Including the DJI. (Except maybe Polini?)
With Bosch, Shimano and Specialized we do now at least have third parties offering service.
If DJI reached out to third party repairers and gave them access to service manuals and all the parts, or better yet, put everything on line, that would really be something to instill confidence.
sethimus
Member
the questions you ppl have and not using your own brain. how many 185mm trunnion shocks are you aware of that have a hub longer than 55mm? exactly…
The package overall is quite good if you're looking for a trail ebike, for enduro or serious stuff it's lacking a bit...
The one big down IMO is the lack of local support in the case of issues, I think anyone that had issues(electrical part of it) with an ebike, knows the struggles when the season in full go...and you don't have a functional bike.
Didn’t watch any other reviews except this one(german) where a realistic range test is done, so based on this:
End of range test in Trail mode in dry conditions at 23m25s.
According to his statements and the settings he had in the app he was at 90Nm, 2/3 of max assist(cca 250%) and did 44km with 1608m of altitude gain draining the 800Wh to a complete 0%.
This would equate to 50Wh per 100m altitude gained.
I feel like this is quite a huge battery consumption, especially for a bike this light running it in Trail mode.
It's a 36V system, increasing power figures at the same voltage is inevitably going to increase current draw. This consumption figures are reflected here as it looks like. Interesting the name Amflow comes from Ampere Flow(current flow).
For comparison at comparable conditions my 26kg Reign E with 85Nm at 250% Assist, Launch 5, + my 90kg can eek out 60km with 1900m of altitude gain. That's cca 42Wh per 100m altitude gain.
I think the Bosch CX in Emtb mode is even better at this.
So I can imagine going into higher assistance modes with the DJI it's going to be even worse, the only upside to this is you have the possibility to go higher if you want otherwise you dial it down.
At this point I am thinking, do I/we even need such power, the difference between 90Nm and 105Nm is negligible IMO(except if the rider is quite a brick), so 90Nm if more efficient is completely acceptable.
The smoothness of power delivery is a matter of good firmware/sensors, testing and the implementation of all this, I am pretty sure other players haven't been sleeping also they have a solid base for development.
One point the tester points
out is that this is a motor that wants you to work for the power, it needs cadence for assistance, it doesn't like low cadences like a Bosch CX for example.
It's probably more like a Giant Syncdrive Pro 2 that has a similar feel as described in the review, you dictate how much power comes out of it, not the other way around.
Another point to note is the rear brake rotor has the hall sensor disc attached, replacing it with a thicker brake rotor could result in clearance issues(maybe it was mentioned or tested in other reviews?).
While these are first tests it's preliminary to draw conclusions, but it gives a broader picture.
I myself would be happy if other manufacturers would choose the same level of integration of displays an remotes, everything else in the upcoming bikes/motors will probably be in the comparable range.
Anyway the ebike future looks interesting
️
The one big down IMO is the lack of local support in the case of issues, I think anyone that had issues(electrical part of it) with an ebike, knows the struggles when the season in full go...and you don't have a functional bike.
Didn’t watch any other reviews except this one(german) where a realistic range test is done, so based on this:
End of range test in Trail mode in dry conditions at 23m25s.
According to his statements and the settings he had in the app he was at 90Nm, 2/3 of max assist(cca 250%) and did 44km with 1608m of altitude gain draining the 800Wh to a complete 0%.
This would equate to 50Wh per 100m altitude gained.
I feel like this is quite a huge battery consumption, especially for a bike this light running it in Trail mode.
It's a 36V system, increasing power figures at the same voltage is inevitably going to increase current draw. This consumption figures are reflected here as it looks like. Interesting the name Amflow comes from Ampere Flow(current flow).
For comparison at comparable conditions my 26kg Reign E with 85Nm at 250% Assist, Launch 5, + my 90kg can eek out 60km with 1900m of altitude gain. That's cca 42Wh per 100m altitude gain.
I think the Bosch CX in Emtb mode is even better at this.
So I can imagine going into higher assistance modes with the DJI it's going to be even worse, the only upside to this is you have the possibility to go higher if you want otherwise you dial it down.
At this point I am thinking, do I/we even need such power, the difference between 90Nm and 105Nm is negligible IMO(except if the rider is quite a brick), so 90Nm if more efficient is completely acceptable.
The smoothness of power delivery is a matter of good firmware/sensors, testing and the implementation of all this, I am pretty sure other players haven't been sleeping also they have a solid base for development.
One point the tester points
out is that this is a motor that wants you to work for the power, it needs cadence for assistance, it doesn't like low cadences like a Bosch CX for example.It's probably more like a Giant Syncdrive Pro 2 that has a similar feel as described in the review, you dictate how much power comes out of it, not the other way around.
Another point to note is the rear brake rotor has the hall sensor disc attached, replacing it with a thicker brake rotor could result in clearance issues(maybe it was mentioned or tested in other reviews?).
While these are first tests it's preliminary to draw conclusions, but it gives a broader picture.
I myself would be happy if other manufacturers would choose the same level of integration of displays an remotes, everything else in the upcoming bikes/motors will probably be in the comparable range.
Anyway the ebike future looks interesting
️
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Astro66
Active member
One thing I've discovered, is you need to learn how to use Boost Mode when Technical Climbing. Lots of power and over run can make climbing feel awkward, initially. But once you master it. Your climbing improves vastly.
It will be the same with the DJI Motor. You'll need time to work out how to use so much power, torque and over run. And you'll probably slowly build up using the higher power modes gradually. But you will become a better climber with more torque, power and over run. You just have to take the time to tame it.
It will be the same with the DJI Motor. You'll need time to work out how to use so much power, torque and over run. And you'll probably slowly build up using the higher power modes gradually. But you will become a better climber with more torque, power and over run. You just have to take the time to tame it.
I think people are looking too much on power provided by motor. Yes it is okay but an emtb is not just a motor.
Up to a point, yes it is cool but I personally do not need tons of power otherwise I would grab my motorbike or a surron.
It is a trail bike, it is light, it might have good range but that's it, geometry wise it is meh, personally I do not like the look at all, It just cannot replace any emtb enduro, at least for me. It might also not be beefier for such practice.
I am eager to see what other brands are going to do. Better encasing it as been mentioned is the real success here - and of course more empowered motor.
In any case as always competition is going to dynamize the panel and prices and we should be happy for that. I am just on the other side kind of sad about pinion as it still does not seem to take roots yet.
Up to a point, yes it is cool but I personally do not need tons of power otherwise I would grab my motorbike or a surron.
It is a trail bike, it is light, it might have good range but that's it, geometry wise it is meh, personally I do not like the look at all, It just cannot replace any emtb enduro, at least for me. It might also not be beefier for such practice.
I am eager to see what other brands are going to do. Better encasing it as been mentioned is the real success here - and of course more empowered motor.
In any case as always competition is going to dynamize the panel and prices and we should be happy for that. I am just on the other side kind of sad about pinion as it still does not seem to take roots yet.
Swingset
Active member
Pretty sure I don't want that much power. Range, on the other hand, I cant get enough of.
Andy__C
Active member
Would love to see what the range is under "normal" use. At the moment everyone seems to be blasting it around in Turbo/Trail max/near max mode.
If you use it as a general trail bike with the smaller, lighter battery and ride sensibly..... I would hope it gives quite a bit more range. Having a 19kg bike that can do 2000m climbs and 80km range.... all with eco/trail level "normal/levo" assist... that would be tempting.
If you use it as a general trail bike with the smaller, lighter battery and ride sensibly..... I would hope it gives quite a bit more range. Having a 19kg bike that can do 2000m climbs and 80km range.... all with eco/trail level "normal/levo" assist... that would be tempting.
Emailsucks98
Active member
Yeah, I am also kind of confused by the hype.
My view is that riding downhill is the whole point. Tires, suspension, brakes, geometry etc are what's most critical. I want the least-intrusive motor system that gets me to the top. Bike needs to be light enough I can scramble up/down unridable tech stuff, so we prefer SL bikes.
Faster, more power, more range, does not matter to me if the motor is unreliable, has limited LBS support, hangs in front/below the chainring. Put that on an unknown bike brand with no local dealers and it's a bag of red flags.
Good dealer support is really critical. And it's hardly on offer from some of the big brands, let alone newcomers. I tip my hat to Trek/TQ here, they've taken good care of me.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
The usual questions when comparing range:......................
Anyway the ebike future looks interesting
How did your riding weight compare to that of the tester?
What about the tyres/pressure etc?
Hey Steve, I take range talk pretty seriously and know the variables that affect it pretty good, I wouldn't write all above if the variables wouldn't be comparable and here they are.
That's why the Wh/altitude gain comparison, as all else(two bars, three bars, km, etc...) is completely useless info when comparing range.
As written I am 90kg ride ready + 26kg Reign E. I basically ride the same size Maxxis WT tires he does in the test, only my front is EXO+ not DD, the terain is also comparable and by his looks he is probably around the same weight maybe a bit more, although his bike is 6kg lighter.
And if you read to the end, I did write at the end it's the first tests and it's to early to jump to conclusions, but gives a first view also I am not the first saying the motor has high consumption, I did catch that somewhere on the forum or if not mistaken...
Will take this opportunity to include something I didn't include in my previous writing, maybe some interesting info for someone interested in the tech and the bike. This information is also from another german yt reviewer 2 months ago after Eurobike, he was one of first if not first to ride the bike in the woods and he is presenting it with one employee from Dji.
He asks a question how it's possible to achieve 1000W of peak power.
His anwser went somehow like this...We don't pedal in completely round motion, so our power input isn't round(the same amount at every moment). So when when we are in the power pedal phase the power is reduced from the motor, but in the dead zone pedal phase the power is added. As the bike has 10 different sensors that's measured so fast and power reduced/added so fast it's not felt by the rider, but what it does it enables to reach peak power of 1000W with still staying inside the legal limit of 250W average.
As I also wrote it is a 36V system, it's impossible to cheat physics, with higher wattage comes higher amperage. Higher amperage means higher heat, higher heat means higer energy loss = reduced efficiency.
Solutions to this are better cooling that can be passive-more mass-lighter motors are weak at this, air channeling(which no brand has been doing except Merida tried something).
Or
Higher voltage = lower amperage = lower heat = less energy loss in the form of heat = increased efficiency.
That's why the most SL ebike motors work on higher voltage, energy efficiency with smallish batteries and motors is key and that's why imo the future is in higher voltage systems, especially if people want more power at the same efficiency.
xtraman122
Member
It is weird they chose to use a 36 and not 48v system, especially as a newcomer to the scene who should have been able to leap ahead of everyone else; Brose is just now learning the lesson finally and going to a 48v system after several years.
But I doubt it’s having too much of an effect on the range overall. I fully agree with you on the higher voltage = less current = less heat = higher efficiency, but in absolute numbers I bet it’s pretty small. If anything, I suspect any range noticeable range differences are a factor of rider weight, tires and tire pressure, terrain, riding style, and most importantly, actual difference in assist provided, which is definitely the biggest differentiator and more subjective between the different bikes. No rider is going to subconsciously be aware that the motor is doing a little more for them on one bike versus another without some real data backing it up, and I suspect due to the motor her feeling so powerful that it’s most likely providing a lot of assist throughout the cadence range on every level, possibly more than many other motors, leading to batteries depleting just a little quicker.
I mean Dji already has experience dealing with the average consumer and even DIY market (see drone parts they sell). As for issues that could arise during building I would say they just need to nail the process down for installation, keep things simple. Every cable one has one place it can be installed so you cannot mess it up. Provide a detailed spec sheet for every bolt required and a general install guide, maybe even a video or two. Honestly if you are capable enough to build up a bike from the frame you shouldn't have any issues build a emtb as the process is very streamlined already with other manufactures like bosch and bafang. And just a few short youtube videos to make things super clear and you are set.
If DJI does sell the kit separately though I would expect people like Dengfu or LC to do what they currently do and offer the frame and the option to buy the kit from them or source it yourself. Honestly this route if they did offer it could be beneficial for DJI because they currently don't have the local dealer network to support these motors. If they were more open to diy it would mean end users could more easily service and know how to remove and warranty parts vs relying on the dealers.
Astro66
Active member
I saw an interview with the head of Crestline. There is very little money in selling frames. Moulds are super expensive to produce, and can only make X amount of frames.
So you might as well use every frame to produce a whole bike, and increase your margins. And sell the occasional frame to specialist bike builders, as a marketing tool for "Dream Bike Builds" using your frame.
His advice to the home bike builder, was to buy the cheapest bike using the frame you need. Then sell off the parts you wish to replace.
So you might as well use every frame to produce a whole bike, and increase your margins. And sell the occasional frame to specialist bike builders, as a marketing tool for "Dream Bike Builds" using your frame.
His advice to the home bike builder, was to buy the cheapest bike using the frame you need. Then sell off the parts you wish to replace.
Emailsucks98
Active member
Most current shocks and forks have a 50hr service cycle. But on an eMTB you’re getting 2-3x Laps in, in that 50hrs, regardless of fitness or skill level. The same goes for tires, brake pads and other consumables.
I Learned this the hard way. “Trail” e-bikes deserve big rotors and DD casing tires. Keep a spare shock and dropper post. Stuff the reviews don’t mention from the press camps.
zerofunds
Member
1900m of climbing tells you absolutely nothing about the actual climb except a start and end point.
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