Dissapointed

[Kernow]

One of the issues with any discussion to do with range, is aside from the obvious like rider weight, mode, elevation etc, I have also found the the terrain you are riding makes a big difference.

For example I can do two different rides in the Surrey Hills. One will be about 25 miles and 2500 - 3000ft of elevation, but most of the climbing is getting to the top of trails. I can comfortably do this loop with one battery, mix of Eco and Trail, prob 60/40 split

The other is a very technical loop, where you are doing about the same amount of climbing, but only about 18miles. Now this loop involves a lot of technical singletrack, with a lot of short sharp climbs, a lot of up and down and sudden bursts of power. This loop will also use most of my battery (and also knacker me a lot more!)

The point is I have noticed with the Shimano system, that if you are riding constant long climbs such as fire roads/ normal single track then you can get a lot more range than doing technical climbing, even if using the same modes, because with the technical climbing you are demanding more out of the motor, via sudden sharp inputs of max torque.

I was about to post similar to this , a lot of my climbing is on moorland grass , it’s not mega steep or long but it’s literally sucks the power out if the bike , I got 16 miles the other day on a battery dong lots of this climbing in eco and trail , there was 5 of us , Iam the heaviest so my battery went first , but the rest all shimano and Bosch all had very little left . It’s not the height gained as much as the type of ground covered , trail centres mostly climb on well made trails with little drag and I would get double the miles on that terrain .

 

[highpeakrider]

18 or so is average in the Peaks, this is the same ride as the one I posted with my TEC pack, today I used all ECO and the bike performance is about the same as when i did it all in trail mode.
I'm 15 st, had the TEC pack mounted but not used, down to the last bar at the end of the ride.

This shows at the end of the main climb of 8.8 miles to the highest point on Derbyshire Bridge and i've just used two bars.

This is the profile of the ride.

 

[Peaky Rider]

I have a Jam squared C plus, got it in November. I love everything about the bike but I have always been disappointed in battery range. What really brought it home was doing a 23 mile ride, 1750ft of climbing, with my mate on his new (2018) Levo comp carbon. At the end of the ride my battery was almost empty but he had 61% battery left!
Both of us on eco most of the way, but he had dialled up his eco to give him a bit more assistance.
He is 13 stone, I am 16 stone but otherwise everything the same.
Left me feeling I have bought the wrong bike and wondering if I should ask dealer to check the battery?

"Left me feeling I have bought the wrong bike" .
You and me both and ironically I was half a battery cell away from buying the bike your mate has.

 

[Lee67]

Been out today, and did 32.2 miles with 2500ft of climbing and got back with 40% battery left’

 

[R120]

On the integrated Focus battery?

 

[Lee67]

On the integrated Focus battery?

Mines a Giant stance with 400 w battery..

 

[highpeakrider]

I have a Jam squared C plus, got it in November. I love everything about the bike but I have always been disappointed in battery range. What really brought it home was doing a 23 mile ride, 1750ft of climbing, with my mate on his new (2018) Levo comp carbon. At the end of the ride my battery was almost empty but he had 61% battery left!
Both of us on eco most of the way, but he had dialled up his eco to give him a bit more assistance.
He is 13 stone, I am 16 stone but otherwise everything the same.
Left me feeling I have bought the wrong bike and wondering if I should ask dealer to check the battery?

Yes but he's got a 504Wh battery your using a 378Wh and carry more weight..
If you put a TEC pack on you would have 756Wh and with the weight difference could be close?
756Wh against 504Wh.

 

[steve_sordy]

I have a Jam squared C plus, got it in November. I love everything about the bike but I have always been disappointed in battery range. What really brought it home was doing a 23 mile ride, 1750ft of climbing, with my mate on his new (2018) Levo comp carbon. At the end of the ride my battery was almost empty but he had 61% battery left!
Both of us on eco most of the way, but he had dialled up his eco to give him a bit more assistance.
He is 13 stone, I am 16 stone but otherwise everything the same.
Left me feeling I have bought the wrong bike and wondering if I should ask dealer to check the battery?

Next time you do a comparison, get him to load up his backpack with 3 stone (42lbs/19kg) of something dense and start off with only 75% of his battery charged. And then do a comparison. Even allowing 22kg each for the bikes, you+bike are still 18% heavier than him and his bike.
Also, he has at least one third more battery than you (504 vs 378), plus his weight advantage, so I'm not surprised he had more reserve left. Is he by any chance fitter than you? Another factor.
"Ye canna beat the laws o' physics Cap'n!"

 

[ggrin]

Next time you do a comparison, get him to load up his backpack with 3 stone (42lbs/19kg) of something dense and start off with only 75% of his battery charged. And then do a comparison. Even allowing 22kg each for the bikes, you+bike are still 18% heavier than him and his bike.
Also, he has at least one third more battery than you (504 vs 378), plus his weight advantage, so I'm not surprised he had more reserve left. Is he by any chance fitter than you? Another factor.
"Ye canna beat the laws o' physics Cap'n!"

I hear what you are saying, but if you work out how much of his battery he has used, it works out at 197wh, I have used 378wh. The difference is a heck of lot more than 18%.
His bike was £300 cheaper than mine and now I need to fork out another £450 for a TEC battery pack and I will probably still have less range.
I like my bike but it definitely seems like it might have been the wrong choice.

 

[highpeakrider]

I hear what you are saying, but if you work out how much of his battery he has used, it works out at 197wh, I have used 378wh. The difference is a heck of lot more than 18%.
His bike was £300 cheaper than mine and now I need to fork out another £450 for a TEC battery pack and I will probably still have less range.
I like my bike but it definitely seems like it might have been the wrong choice.

Well I’d jump on his bike and see if it performs the same lugging your extra 3 stone, get him to ride yours and compare like for like.

 

[R120]

May have been discussed already but do you both have the same state of tune on your bikes? I.E the trail settings the same?

 

[Doomanic]

Been out today, and did 32.2 miles with 2500ft of climbing and got back with 40% battery left’

Are you a racing snake? Rider weight makes a huge difference to range.

 

[steve_sordy]

I hear what you are saying, but if you work out how much of his battery he has used, it works out at 197wh, I have used 378wh. The difference is a heck of lot more than 18%.
His bike was £300 cheaper than mine and now I need to fork out another £450 for a TEC battery pack and I will probably still have less range.
I like my bike but it definitely seems like it might have been the wrong choice.

I can see how you worked that out: 61% left, therefore 39% used on a 504Whr battery = 197Whr
I would question the accuracy of the 61% to start with. But if that is a given, then that leaves fitness then. Either your mate is a lot fitter than you, or is working harder, or your battery has something wrong with it. Maybe a bit of all three?

 

[highpeakrider]

May have been discussed already but do you both have the same state of tune on your bikes? I.E the trail settings the same?

Or tires, size, pressures, gearing the list goes on.

 

[Andy A]

Been out today, and did 32.2 miles with 2500ft of climbing and got back with 40% battery left’

Was that on or off road?

 

[Lee67]

Are you a racing snake? Rider weight makes a huge difference to range.

14 stone

 

[Lee67]

Was that on or off road?

Off with odd short road section

 

[ggrin]

Well I’d jump on his bike and see if it performs the same lugging your extra 3 stone, get him to ride yours and compare like for like.

Yes if he will let me that would be the best test.

I can see how you worked that out: 61% left, therefore 39% used on a 504Whr battery = 197Whr
I would question the accuracy of the 61% to start with. But if that is a given, then that leaves fitness then. Either your mate is a lot fitter than you, or is working harder, or your battery has something wrong with it. Maybe a bit of all three?

Fitness levels are similar, he had tuned his eco to 25% assist which is more than standard setting because he had a sore back. It is the faulty battery I am concerned about. I have asked dealer if he can check it but no response from him yet. My numbers are similar to Peaky Rider so I suspect its just that the Levo is a bit more efficient.

 

[ggrin]

Or tires, size, pressures, gearing the list goes on.

Same 2.8 x 27.5 tyres but I think mine probably bit higher pressure. Gearing similar I think.

 

[Peaky Rider]

Are you a racing snake? Rider weight makes a huge difference to range.

Or does it?

 

[highpeakrider]

But riding is boost isn't really how we ride so is it a fair test?
However on my last ride i did one in ECO and one in TRAIL and the usage was the same.
I rode both the same way, if i'd have really pushed in TRAIL i guess I would have used more battery.

My ethos remains the same go out and ride and enjoy the bike.
If you want to do a longer ride use the TEC pack.

If you think the mileage on the bike is crap spend a fortune more and get a 700Wh Levo.
The only problem with that is I can't find one for £3200, so I use a Jam2 and TEC pack.

 

[Doomanic]

Are you a racing snake? Rider weight makes a huge difference to range.

Or does it?

You cannae change the laws of physics.

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

to rule the bike out try riding it on the flat powered off on a relatively smooth surface - it should feel like you could ride all day and do 80 miles. Granted accelerating from a standstill will feel a bit sluggish. then you will know if the battery is goosed.

 

[highpeakrider]

to rule the bike out try riding it on the flat powered off on a relatively smooth surface - it should feel like you could ride all day and do 80 miles. Granted accelerating from a standstill will feel a bit sluggish. then you will know if the battery is goosed.

I.ve read that 5 times and it still doesn’t make sense.
How does riding the bike with it off prove the battery?
How does a 40 lb bike feel like you could ride it all day?
The OP live in the Peak District we don’t tend to have flat, we have hills.

 

[MattyB]

I.ve read that 5 times and it still doesn’t make sense.
How does riding the bike with it off prove the battery?
How does a 40 lb bike feel like you could ride it all day?
The OP live in the Peak District we don’t tend to have flat, we have hills.

The only thing I can think is he is trying to suggest is that something on the bike (brakes or power train) is causing resistance that is reducing the range. Pretty unlikely, though far from the silliest suggestion he’s made on this forum...

 

[Andy A]

The only thing I can think is he is trying to suggest is that something on the bike (brakes or power train) is causing resistance that is reducing the range. Pretty unlikely, though far from the silliest suggestion he’s made on this forum...

Are you sure about that last sentence

 

[MattyB]

Are you sure about that last sentence

Very sure...

 

[ricardowight]

Here are the stats of my last two rides:
02.02.19
Temperature 3 degC
Trail conditions: wet, muddy, snow on the ground at higher elevations.
I managed 22 miles with 1765ft/534M of climbing.
The battery totally died approx 400M from home!!
All Eco/off with a couple of very short bursts of trail.

15.02.19
Just been out today and it's much warmer down here on the Isle of Wight!
Temperature 10degC
Trail conditions: much drier, not much mud, no gloop stuck to the bike, just splashes.
Similar route to last time out.
20 miles with 1832ft/558M of climbing.
Finished the ride with two bars of battery left and 13 miles of range remaining.
My ride weight was a bit less this time out with just a small hip pack of essentials rather than the 'prepared for anything' fully loaded back pack.
All Eco/off.
BUT, the main difference that I paid close attention to was my cadence.
I've never really made a point of this, but today I rode with the display set in cadence and really put in the effort to make sure that the rate never dropped below the 70/80rpm range.
I realise that all the conditions are different between the two rides, and many factors have an impact on range, but I've come to think that it's the way you ride it that makes the most difference.
Both rides were approx 65% off road.
The difference in power used between the two is huge, in that I finished with approx 40% juice left today.
I'm hoping that by the time summer comes along I'll be getting 35-40 miles!!
It's worth noting though that keeping the cadence in the right zone does take some effort, but today's ride felt much more like I was working in harmony with the bike.

 

[Andy A]

Here are the stats of my last two rides:
02.02.19
Temperature 3 degC
Trail conditions: wet, muddy, snow on the ground at higher elevations.
I managed 22 miles with 1765ft/534M of climbing.
The battery totally died approx 400M from home!!
All Eco/off with a couple of very short bursts of trail.

15.02.19
Just been out today and it's much warmer down here on the Isle of Wight!
Temperature 10degC
Trail conditions: much drier, not much mud, no gloop stuck to the bike, just splashes.
Similar route to last time out.
20 miles with 1832ft/558M of climbing.
Finished the ride with two bars of battery left and 13 miles of range remaining.
My ride weight was a bit less this time out with just a small hip pack of essentials rather than the 'prepared for anything' fully loaded back pack.
All Eco/off.
BUT, the main difference that I paid close attention to was my cadence.
I've never really made a point of this, but today I rode with the display set in cadence and really put in the effort to make sure that the rate never dropped below the 70/80rpm range.
I realise that all the conditions are different between the two rides, and many factors have an impact on range, but I've come to think that it's the way you ride it that makes the most difference.
Both rides were approx 65% off road.
The difference in power used between the two is huge, in that I finished with approx 40% juice left today.
I'm hoping that by the time summer comes along I'll be getting 35-40 miles!!
It's worth noting though that keeping the cadence in the right zone does take some effort, but today's ride felt much more like I was working in harmony with the bike.

That is really positive to read it seems like cadence is the answer

I am still waiting for my TEC pack which should arrive this week.

 

[Russ]

Here are the stats of my last two rides:
02.02.19
Temperature 3 degC
Trail conditions: wet, muddy, snow on the ground at higher elevations.
I managed 22 miles with 1765ft/534M of climbing.
The battery totally died approx 400M from home!!
All Eco/off with a couple of very short bursts of trail.

15.02.19
Just been out today and it's much warmer down here on the Isle of Wight!
Temperature 10degC
Trail conditions: much drier, not much mud, no gloop stuck to the bike, just splashes.
Similar route to last time out.
20 miles with 1832ft/558M of climbing.
Finished the ride with two bars of battery left and 13 miles of range remaining.
My ride weight was a bit less this time out with just a small hip pack of essentials rather than the 'prepared for anything' fully loaded back pack.
All Eco/off.
BUT, the main difference that I paid close attention to was my cadence.
I've never really made a point of this, but today I rode with the display set in cadence and really put in the effort to make sure that the rate never dropped below the 70/80rpm range.
I realise that all the conditions are different between the two rides, and many factors have an impact on range, but I've come to think that it's the way you ride it that makes the most difference.
Both rides were approx 65% off road.
The difference in power used between the two is huge, in that I finished with approx 40% juice left today.
I'm hoping that by the time summer comes along I'll be getting 35-40 miles!!
It's worth noting though that keeping the cadence in the right zone does take some effort, but today's ride felt much more like I was working in harmony with the bike.

Here are the stats of my last two rides:
02.02.19
Temperature 3 degC
Trail conditions: wet, muddy, snow on the ground at higher elevations.
I managed 22 miles with 1765ft/534M of climbing.
The battery totally died approx 400M from home!!
All Eco/off with a couple of very short bursts of trail.

15.02.19
Just been out today and it's much warmer down here on the Isle of Wight!
Temperature 10degC
Trail conditions: much drier, not much mud, no gloop stuck to the bike, just splashes.
Similar route to last time out.
20 miles with 1832ft/558M of climbing.
Finished the ride with two bars of battery left and 13 miles of range remaining.
My ride weight was a bit less this time out with just a small hip pack of essentials rather than the 'prepared for anything' fully loaded back pack.
All Eco/off.
BUT, the main difference that I paid close attention to was my cadence.
I've never really made a point of this, but today I rode with the display set in cadence and really put in the effort to make sure that the rate never dropped below the 70/80rpm range.
I realise that all the conditions are different between the two rides, and many factors have an impact on range, but I've come to think that it's the way you ride it that makes the most difference.
Both rides were approx 65% off road.
The difference in power used between the two is huge, in that I finished with approx 40% juice left today.
I'm hoping that by the time summer comes along I'll be getting 35-40 miles!!
It's worth noting though that keeping the cadence in the right zone does take some effort, but today's ride felt much more like I was working in harmony with the bike.

I totally agree with this, I was averaging about 15 miles on a ride , range indicator in red when I arrived home , riding all in eco( before the bike completely packed up, yet to be sorted , looks like battery management system failure ?)
Anyway I distinctly remember keeping up a much higher cadence on the last ride 70 to 80 rpm as said and arrived home with 3 bars on battery indicator.
So yes be lazy and battery Will not last as long.
Put in proper effort , and as if by magic the battery lasts longer !!
A note on my terrible electrical failure, having opened up the battery casing , (yes that's the warranty knackered!)
I discovered moisture inside the casing, whether this is from water ingress ( seems unlikely, casing very well sealed) more likely condensation and some of the printed circuit board tiny connections starting to turn green with corrosion , all very worrying!
It's only ever been used in the wet, mud snow etc proper Scottish wet!
I do seriously wonder whether these bikes are developed enough for the crap weather conditions we have in UK to be reliable enough
Russ