Disappointed with Commencal quality and customer service.

[mxkauai]

So I have a 2019 Meta power 29, I have had this bike for a little over a year. In this time I have had to have both motor and battery replaced under warranty (I know this is Shimano). Other issues I have had is a cracked stem (my fault for not torquing properly) broke my pedal off (replaced under warranty), constant loosening of rear axle and suspension linkage bolts even with blue loctite.

Now I have noticed some hard bubbles appearing under the paint at 2 of the welds and near a motor mount. So I contacted Commencal USA and they had to contact there engineers. They first told me they have never seen this before. Today they got back to me with the response that it is oxidation under the paint, it is only cosmetic and not covered under warranty. I'm not one to really care about cosmetics but don't feel that this frame should be oxidizing where there are no scratches and feel this should be replaced. At this point I am done with Commencal even though I really like there bikes. Any thoughts? and has anyone had there aluminum frames oxidize and bubble? all of my previous bikes have been aluminum and never seen this problem.

 

[Matt_Rider]

So it's basically rusting under the paint?

 

[kombos]

Maybe contaminants not properly cleaned before paint process. Something causing aluminum oxidation under the paint....it seems.

 

[urastus]

In the scheme of things it does seem fairly minor, especially a year down the track. You have had the significant problems dealt with - that's good. I'd try to enjoy the bike for as long as you have it - you'd might as well. Do you still have a year's warranty left?

 

[mxkauai]

In the scheme of things it does seem fairly minor, especially a year down the track. You have had the significant problems dealt with - that's good. I'd try to enjoy the bike for as long as you have it - you'd might as well. Do you still have a year's warranty left?

Yeah that’s the plan to use it until the warranty on the motor and battery runs out. Right now it’s not too bad, but I know corrosion like this usually continues to spread and paint will eventually chip off. The only reason I am posting about this on here is to bring awareness to how Commencal is handling this issue. They don’t seem to care about The quality of there bike or there customer.

 

[Mteam]

I've never seen an aluminium frame do that, its pretty poor IMO. That bolt in one of the photos looks quite corroded too, do you ride in a very salty environment - near the sea for example?

Almost looks like how a steel frame might rust, but cant be because its alu. quite surprising really.

 

[mxkauai]

I've never seen an aluminium frame do that, its pretty poor IMO. That bolt in one of the photos looks quite corroded too, do you ride in a very salty environment - near the sea for example?

Almost looks like how a steel frame might rust, but cant be because its alu. quite surprising really.

I live in Hawaii, surrounded by the ocean and salt water corrodes everything. So maybe I should not be surprised, just never had a bike frame corrode like this. I have seen this happen many times with Fox kashima coated forks corrode and the coating flakes off over here and a friend with onyx hubs has the same issue.

 

[melmark]

I live in Hawaii, surrounded by the ocean and salt water corrodes everything. So maybe I should not be surprised, just never had a bike frame corrode like this. I have seen this happen many times with Fox kashima coated forks corrode and the coating flakes off over here and a friend with onyx hubs has the same issue.

Interesting to hear about the Kashima corrosion. I hadnt heard about that, but you've seen it often apparently.

 

[Zimmerframe]

硬質アルマイト カシマコート | 株式会社ミヤキ

カシマコート®︎は硬質アルマイト皮膜に自己潤滑機能をもたせ、耐摩耗性向上を目的とした潤滑アルマイトです。耐摩耗試験では、硬質クロームメッキに約3倍、硬質アルマイトの約4倍のデータがあり、摺動部に給油なしで耐えうる潤滑性があります。

www.kashima-coat.com

I'd never realised it also contained Molybdenum disulfide crystals. Learn something new everyday ..

 

[mxkauai]

Interesting to hear about the Kashima corrosion. I hadnt heard about that, but you've seen it often apparently.

Not a lot of bikes where I live so only a handful of fox forks with kashima coating, but I have seen this on most of them that are not brand new. A friend of mine with this problem was talking about how the coating just doesn't hold up. I believe it was his second set with that problem. Newer products from fox may not have the same problem, his fork is at least 2 years old now. Never seen this problem with the black coating on rockshox or even the black coating on fox.

 

[mxkauai]

硬質アルマイト カシマコート | 株式会社ミヤキ

カシマコート®︎は硬質アルマイト皮膜に自己潤滑機能をもたせ、耐摩耗性向上を目的とした潤滑アルマイトです。耐摩耗試験では、硬質クロームメッキに約3倍、硬質アルマイトの約4倍のデータがあり、摺動部に給油なしで耐えうる潤滑性があります。

www.kashima-coat.com

I'd never realised it also contained Molybdenum disulfide crystals. Learn something new everyday ..

I noticed they are comparing corrosion resistance to chrome plated. To me that doesn't say much since chrome plated forks corrode here all the time. I have one in my garage.

 

[Nicho]

Moisture can work its way under the paint even with a very small hole in the paint (caused either by faulty painting or from impact damage or scratches), and in your second photo it looks like you have a number of quite large "pinholes" in the paint.

The moisture eventually causes corrosion and lifts the paint off the metal.

I see this a lot with outdoor aluminium fittings, such as on aluminium floodlight bodies and door handles.

If you leave it untreated it will probably result in quite a large area of paint falling off.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

Finally....there is a downside to living in hawaii!! I think the salt air is responsible for EVERYTHING THAT HAS OCCURRED. I have a 2018 meta power but I live inland in NorCal. Maybe before you buy a next bike you need to construct some kind of storage that actively scrubs the salt from the room and ya store it after a thorough desalting after each ride...unless some brands actually envision a bike in such a constant salt exposure , which I doubt any manufacturer does , stop blaming commencal. I'm not really on this sympathy train..I got off at the station and went surfing.

 

[Brianjonesphoto]

I have a 2018 meta power and have nothing but good things to say about Commencal USA and warranty issues. It sounds like the root of your issues are environmental and short of moving or figuring out a humitiy/salinity control it will continue. I have a good friend that live on Maui and alway hates dealing with the affects of the salt and humidity on everything she owns.

I ride in wet conditions for more than half the year and live within 10 miles of salt water here in the PNW has don’t have Any sort of these issues.

I can say Commencal USA stand up behind there products when there is a structural defect. I cracked my seat tube and had a replacement frame from France in less than a month. There was some back and forth with the “engineers in Europe” before I knew I was getting a frame but it wasn’t much delay

 

[hypa]

Bashing shimano, broke your own stem, broke your pedals, and can't torque bolts properly? This sounds like a you problem, and not Commencal.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

Sometimes it's not the bikes fault. It's the owner or the enviorment.

 

[mxkauai]

Bashing shimano, broke your own stem, broke your pedals, and can't torque bolts properly? This sounds like a you problem, and not Commencal.

Sometimes it's not the bikes fault. It's the owner or the enviorment.

I use my bikes, always clean maintain and store inside. I have never broke a stem before this and always tightened by feel and having a pedal snap off down a steep decent, that is the owners fault? luckily I didn't get hurt when it happened. I am just pointing out my experience and opinion about the poor quality of components I received on this bike. With all of my bikes over the years including this one I have scratches and even paint chips but never any corrosion. Even this bike has scratches to the metal and no corrosion there. Where the corrosion is on the top tube there are those 2 tiny pin holes, not like I poked it with a needle and no scratches so my guess is it came from under the paint, probably contaminated before painting process. I do live in a place where things rust and corrode often but like I said I have never had this happen to one of my bikes. Maybe Commencal's are not made to be used near the ocean.

If you look at there warranty: DURATION From 1st January 2019, COMMENÇAL® undertakes to guarantee its products in the case of manufacturing or material defects for the following time periods: All other bikes across the range for five years (5 years).

They are choosing to consider this under the finishes such as paint for 6 months. But last I checked paint does not corrode.
- Finishes such as paints, stickers and other decorations are guaranteed against manufacturing defects for a period of six months (6 months).

When I reached out to Commencal again regarding this they have not responded to my email and I even called but the employee that handles warranties has not returned my call. This is my experience and I am just sharing it. I am disappointing in the quality and dealing with Commencal. There bikes ride great, but I will never give them my money again.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

Ask for Diego at commencal in colorado. Tell him his number one pain in the ass ( that's me)! Doesn't understand what's going on! Or address inquiries to attn Diago.

 

[Rusty]

Showed these pics to my paint guy that also does power coating and anodizing for a comment. He is of the opinion that even in Hawaii you should not have those issues with a bike this new. He lives in Rotorua, which has a very high sulphur content in the air and works in Mt Maunganui, a seaside town that is often shrouded in sea mist and has only see this sort of thing so early on, and that was due to poor frame preparation prior to painting. With the frames coming from Taiwan I would have thought they would go through a drying chamber prior to painting, but that may not be so.

I had a problem with a Giant CF delaminating and a fiberglass friend had his brother who is a F1 CF guy take a look at it. Giant claimed it was impact damage, but where it was under the top tube it would be virtually impossible to have impact. His opinion was that whoever handled the frame prior to the clear-coat probably had not used gloves and just the skins oils would have caused the issue.
That means it doesn't take much to effect surface coating IMHO.

 

[MACSKI1]

Sell it, get a carbon Levo.

 

[Matt_Rider]

Sell it, get a carbon Levo.

Sell it, buy something better value than a carbon Levo

 

[Cyclopath1000]

I now think you need a new frame. And it's on commencal dime. The feedback from others with greater technical know-how has convinced me.. plus this thread needs to be printed out and mailed to Diego at commencal... They need to know the dialogue has gone this far. It needs to be a business decision and corporate good will is at stake... If the relatively low price of the meta powers is in part due to a skipped fabrication step of some kind of preparation before painting then as far as I can see the warrentee NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER IS OVER. I RECENTLY EXPRESSED THIS POINT OF VIEW TO ANOTHER MANUFACTURER WHICH WILL REMAIN ANONYMOUS IN WHICH A DEFECT IN MANUFACTURING OUT RAN THE ADVERTISEd LIFE OF THE FRAME. I'M SORRY WHEN YOU MAKE A MISTAKE MAKING SOMETHING AND IT WEARS OUT BECAUSE OF THAT MISTAKE DON'T TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WARRANTY GIVE ME A NEW FRAME AND THEY HAVE TO BECAUSE I WENT ON A I WENT ON A FACEBOOK AND A STRAVA ETC ETC MISSION TO LET AS MANY PEOPLE KNOW HOW THEY WERE TREATING ME AND THEY'RE QUITE RESPONSIVE TO THAT THEY DON'T LIKE TO HEAR THINGS FROM RECENT CUSTOMERS IN WHICH THERE'S MAJOR FAILURE THAT'S NOT BEING COVERED. SO I THINK YOUR NEW FRAME IS ALMOST PACKED UP AND READY TO GO . YOU JUST NEED TO PUSH THE POINT TO THEM DIRECTLY ..I haveDO AGREE THAT HAWAII'S TERRIBLE ON PAINT BUT IF THIS GUY SAYS THAT THIS CLEARLY A STEP THAT WAS MISSING BASED ON THE THE POSTMORTEM THE PATHOLOGICAL EVALUATION OF WHAT'S GOING ON AND THERE'S A READILY AVAILABLE EXPLANATION THAT OTHER METALLURGISTS AND PAINTERS WHO KNOW CAN EASILY SAY ,YEAH I'VE SEEN THIS WELL THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. THEY GOT TO GIVE A NEW FRAME. END OF MY STATEMENT. GOOD LUCK.

 

[mxkauai]

I now think you need a new frame. And it's on commencal dime. The feedback from others with greater technical know-how has convinced me.. plus this thread needs to be printed out and mailed to Diego at commencal... They need to know the dialogue has gone this far. It needs to be a business decision and corporate good will is at stake... If the relatively low price of the meta powers is in part due to a skipped fabrication step of some kind of preparation before painting then as far as I can see the warrentee NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER IS OVER. I RECENTLY EXPRESSED THIS POINT OF VIEW TO ANOTHER MANUFACTURER WHICH WILL REMAIN ANONYMOUS IN WHICH A DEFECT IN MANUFACTURING OUT RAN THE ADVERTISEd LIFE OF THE FRAME. I'M SORRY WHEN YOU MAKE A MISTAKE MAKING SOMETHING AND IT WEARS OUT BECAUSE OF THAT MISTAKE DON'T TELL ME ABOUT YOUR WARRANTY GIVE ME A NEW FRAME AND THEY HAVE TO BECAUSE I WENT ON A I WENT ON A FACEBOOK AND A STRAVA ETC ETC MISSION TO LET AS MANY PEOPLE KNOW HOW THEY WERE TREATING ME AND THEY'RE QUITE RESPONSIVE TO THAT THEY DON'T LIKE TO HEAR THINGS FROM RECENT CUSTOMERS IN WHICH THERE'S MAJOR FAILURE THAT'S NOT BEING COVERED. SO I THINK YOUR NEW FRAME IS ALMOST PACKED UP AND READY TO GO . YOU JUST NEED TO PUSH THE POINT TO THEM DIRECTLY ..I haveDO AGREE THAT HAWAII'S TERRIBLE ON PAINT BUT IF THIS GUY SAYS THAT THIS CLEARLY A STEP THAT WAS MISSING BASED ON THE THE POSTMORTEM THE PATHOLOGICAL EVALUATION OF WHAT'S GOING ON AND THERE'S A READILY AVAILABLE EXPLANATION THAT OTHER METALLURGISTS AND PAINTERS WHO KNOW CAN EASILY SAY ,YEAH I'VE SEEN THIS WELL THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. THEY GOT TO GIVE A NEW FRAME. END OF MY STATEMENT. GOOD LUCK.

I will keep trying this week. Still waiting for Diego to return my call or respond to my email from the beginning of last week.

 

[kbass24emtp]

That is a defect. It’s from poor paint prep. I have seen that happen to paint on our Fire Trucks that have aluminum bodies and the manufacturer warranties it to get repainted. Keep fighting it’s their mistake.

 

[mxkauai]

Just an update: I talked to Diego about a week ago, he tried to tell me it was the paint oxidizing not the aluminum. I looked this up on the spot and for sure this is not paint oxidation, I told him it was from poor prep prior to painting. He seemed unsure and started putting it off on the engineers in Europe, said that the decision was up to them and not him. So he emailed them at that time. Finally heard back from him today and they are still saying that this is not covered under warranty and nothing he can do.

I am just putting this info out there for everyone to make their own decision when buying from this company. To me this is poor customer service and not sticking behind their product. I guess it is what it is at this point, going to enjoy riding this bike until the motor and battery warranty runs out and then sell and go with a different brand. Probably specialized not for their price but only ebikes sold on island.

 

[mxkauai]

Today Commencal offered me a new 2019 frame for $1180, or a new 2020 frame and battery for $3290! What a joke.

 

[azzwethinkweiz]

Unfortunately the corrosion looks identical to the corrosion I see at work on aluminum structures of aircraft every day. Moisture usually has a small point of ingress around a fastener hole or other defect/gap in the topcoat and becomes trapped. Pretty common to see in aluminum parts that are exposed to high moisture and salty areas. Metal prep is the most important thing to prevent this. It is likely the frame was not clean in these spots or inadequate amounts of priming or etching material was applied before the topcoat. As to their response that it is only oxidization under the paint, it sounds a little like they're underplaying it. Corrosion is corrosion, it is like cancer and will continue to spread (assuming you're riding in the same areas repeatedly) unless treated. Although it is likely light surface corrosion initially, after some time it can develop into something structurally critical, going deeper and becoming intergranular.