Destricting gen4 Bosch without error 504?

[AlliumPorrum]

Hi all!

I got a Cube 160AT a month ago, and I must say that I'm very happy with my bike over all! :=) But, as many of you have already noticed, that 25km/h limit is waaaay too low and I really would like to do something for it. For what I have read all over, Speedbox and Volspeed seem to have some problems with gen4, and may cause that terrible error 504. And if I have understood correctly, getting it a few times might even brick the motor totally or something like that..?

So, I just wanted to ask if there is ANY known way to deristrict the gen4 Bosch without having to be afraid of bricking the whole system? How about Badass box, does it also have the same problem? For some bikes there are this kind of a mechanical gear reducers, would this be possible solution for Bosch also: Planet3 easily derestrict Specialized Turbo Levo for 3x the speed!

 

[Marc_250]

Seems you can get modest performance increases with Speedbox and Volspeed but the higher you push the speed and longer you run above the normal limit the higher chance of you getting a 504 error. You won't brick the motor it just puts it in a kind of limp mode kind of like ECO mode mode assist levels.

Think its been well over a year now since I originally posted about 504 on here and still no definite solution. Seems to me that fudging the speed info provided to the drive unit isn't the answer. Someone needs to suss out how to access the drive units software and reconfigure it much as they've been doing with car ECU's (remaps) for years.

 

[Mteam]

Seems you can get modest performance increases with Speedbox and Volspeed but the higher you push the speed and longer you run above the normal limit the higher chance of you getting a 504 error. You won't brick the motor it just puts it in a kind of limp mode kind of like ECO mode mode assist levels.

Think its been well over a year now since I originally posted about 504 on here and still no definite solution. Seems to me that fudging the speed info provided to the drive unit isn't the answer. Someone needs to suss out how to access the drive units software and reconfigure it much as they've been doing with car ECU's (remaps) for years.

Yeah I'd like to get hold of a copy of the firmware file and see what I can find out from it.

 

[RonJ.]

Hy,

i am using the Speedchip V3 for over 1000+ now and no error 504
The chips lifts the speed limit up to 35kmh and that is enough for fun riding on trails.

SpeedChip Custom 3.0 met Plug & Play connectors Bosch motoren - Active, Performance, CX en Cargo ≧ MJ2020

www.e-bike-tuning.nl

Regards Ron.

 

[RonJ.]

Hy,

i am using the Speedchip V3 for over 1000+ now and no error 504
The chips lifts the speed limit up to 35kmh and that is enough for fun riding on trails.

SpeedChip Custom 3.0 met Plug & Play connectors Bosch motoren - Active, Performance, CX en Cargo ≧ MJ2020

www.e-bike-tuning.nl

Regards Ron.

And today error 504 appears at start of my planned bike trip.
No way to reset and I dont want to bike for 90 min in limp.
So removed chip but no result.
Go to my lbs for a reset and read out my bike this evening.
Not happy

 

[Tribey]

I've posted this before, but in June I had a 504 error on my 2019 Bosch Gen4 Whyte, and I don't run any tuning!

A quick trip to my LBS and it was cleared. 800 miles later without any other messages.

So I can't blame a chip.

 

[Rosemount]

I've posted this before, but in June I had a 504 error on my 2019 Bosch Gen4 Whyte, and I don't run any tuning!

A quick trip to my LBS and it was cleared. 800 miles later without any other messages.

So I can't blame a chip.

BOSCH say in their dealers workshop manual that on the 4th 504 error you need to engage a lawyer and explain that you only ride on private land . Then they will unlock the motor .

I will be interested when the innocent person who never de restricted their bike gets to a 4th 504 error .

I have heard recently of 504 errors created by metal filings on the magnet . Particularly on bikes with the magnet on the disc rotor .

 

[Rosemount]

I've posted this before, but in June I had a 504 error on my 2019 Bosch Gen4 Whyte, and I don't run any tuning!

A quick trip to my LBS and it was cleared. 800 miles later without any other messages.

So I can't blame a chip.

BOSCH say in their dealers workshop manual that on the 4th 504 error you need to engage a lawyer and explain that you only ride on private land . Then they will unlock the motor .

I will be interested when the innocent person who never de restricted their bike gets to a 4th 504 error .

I have heard recently of 504 errors created by metal filings on the magnet . Particularly on bikes with the magnet on the disc rotor .

 

[AlliumPorrum]

I'm really tired of this BS from Bosch, their random 504 errors, totally closed system, and crappy software :-( It's a shame since the motor itself is great, but this kind of a stupidities totally mess up the customer experience over all, IMO. This will surely will be my last bike with Bosch motor, next time I will be looking something different with more open system and better possibilities from software point of view.

 

[Tribey]

What Bosch BS are you tired of? European Law [European standard (EN 15194: 2017)] insists they manufacture their motors with anti tampering software to prevent tuning and demonstrate evidence of compliance with the requirements. It's not their choice.

 

[Rosemount]

What Bosch BS are you tired of? European Law [European standard (EN 15194: 2017)] insists they manufacture their motors with anti tampering software to prevent tuning and demonstrate evidence of compliance with the requirements. It's not their choice.

It was all ok when they were hacking with their buddies from Volkswagon .But we saw how that ended . LOL
Now they want to show what good responsible corporate citizens they can be .

This European Standard applies to EPAC bicycles that have a maximum saddle height of 635 mm or more .

 

[AlliumPorrum]

What Bosch BS are you tired of? European Law [European standard (EN 15194: 2017)] insists they manufacture their motors with anti tampering software to prevent tuning and demonstrate evidence of compliance with the requirements. It's not their choice.

As I said, I feel that their software is totally crap over all, and they don't even give any choice because the system is totally closed. Bluetooth connection does not work all the time, and mobile app is really basic and quite useless overall. No connections to the most common sports applications and platforms. There is a light connector on the motor, but you have to pay for LBS to activate it, WTF?! You can't even set the wanted assistance levels for different eMTB- modes like in pretty much all other systems. Etc. etc.

And regarding the 504's I was not referring on having an anti tampering system on the software, but it causing faultu errors even though you did NOT have any derestriction device installed. But, to be honest, I totally would like to derestrict my own bike, and since it seems to be easier on Shimano or Brose, that's the way to go for me in the future :=)

 

[Tribey]

It was all ok when they were hacking with their buddies from Volkswagon .But we saw how that ended . LOL
Now they want to show what good responsible corporate citizens they can be .

Maybe that is the effect that the €1 billion fine had.

 

[Rosemount]

Bosch Chip Advanced Tuning > eplus

Bosch Chip Advanced Tuning is a device to unlock the motor up to 50 Km / h. Also available for Bosch 4gen 85nm

www.eplus.bike

BOSCH
ADVANCED TUNING
€ 193
The Advanced kit consists of the chip, to be installed in the engine crankcase, and the app that allows you to change the mapping.
In addition to unlocking the speed, the system allows the application to customize your driving style, based on the type of route and experience. The cyclist can customize both the speed and the style of power delivery according to the speed. Eplus offers different mappings from which users can choose: eco, urban, touring, enduro trial and race.

By going to one of our authorized dealers, as an e-bike motor specialist, in addition to the mappings already present, it will be possible to create up to a maximum of 6 “ad hoc” mappings for the maximum driving style customization.
The Reseller can also modify the speed ranges to which the cursors refer.

??????

 

[Mteam]

I wish they wouldnt refer to the motors as engines, with 'crankcases'. Gives the wrong impression to people who want ebikes banned.....

Anyway -I digress, this looks interesting - its not clear from the description exactly what parameters you can change, but it looks like it might allow you to change max torque values, assist levels etc as per shimano and specialized. I dont like that a 'dealer' has to change the parameters though, rather than being able to do it yourself.

I'm not too bothered about any of that,so its probably not for me - I'd just like the ability to remove the motor assist speed limit without worrying about whether I'm going to trigger a 504 error - if they guarantee that, then I could be interested.

 

[George (eBiketuner.com)]

Hi guys,

George here from ebiketuner. Shoot me a dm if you have any questions about Bosch tuning.

Check out this post too!

 

[Rosemount]

Hi guys,

George here from ebiketuner. Shoot me a dm if you have any questions about Bosch tuning.

Check out this post too!

Errr George ,,, you are still advertising Speed Box 3 as a derestriction device ? I thought it was a device for checking the anti tuning system of BOSCH engines ????

As I was able to detect tuning twice [error 504 ] with Speed Box 3 attached so I think it does its job quite well .
Because BOSCH can lock up your motor and you need to engage a lawyer to negotiate the unlocking of your motor . I choose not to use Speed Box 3 any longer.

 

[George (eBiketuner.com)]

Errr George ,,, you are still advertising Speed Box 3 as a derestriction device ? I thought it was a device for checking the anti tuning system of BOSCH engines ????

As I was able to detect tuning twice [error 504 ] with Speed Box 3 attached so I think it does its job quite well .
Because BOSCH can lock up your motor and you need to engage a lawyer to negotiate the unlocking of your motor . I choose not to use Speed Box 3 any longer.

I've heard it all now ?

Jokes aside, the speedbox 3.0 does work still, providing you stick to the countdown. Often 504 errors arise when riders are running old software on their bike.

 

[StuckintheSpokes]

Bosch Chip Advanced Tuning > eplus

Bosch Chip Advanced Tuning is a device to unlock the motor up to 50 Km / h. Also available for Bosch 4gen 85nm

www.eplus.bike

BOSCH
ADVANCED TUNING
€ 193
The Advanced kit consists of the chip, to be installed in the engine crankcase, and the app that allows you to change the mapping.
In addition to unlocking the speed, the system allows the application to customize your driving style, based on the type of route and experience. The cyclist can customize both the speed and the style of power delivery according to the speed. Eplus offers different mappings from which users can choose: eco, urban, touring, enduro trial and race.

By going to one of our authorized dealers, as an e-bike motor specialist, in addition to the mappings already present, it will be possible to create up to a maximum of 6 “ad hoc” mappings for the maximum driving style customization.
The Reseller can also modify the speed ranges to which the cursors refer.

??????

Is this what you are looking for?

Ebike tuning kit Speed Unlocker Bosch Gen 2 / 3 / 4 - 2022 and previo

Device designed for e-bikes with BOSCH Performance Line CX 2021 and earlier engines (Active line, Active Line plus, performance line, performance line CX) in order to rem

www.ridewill.it

 

[Hamina]

Anyway -I digress, this looks interesting - its not clear from the description exactly what parameters you can change, but it looks like it might allow you to change max torque values, assist levels etc as per shimano and specialized. I dont like that a 'dealer' has to change the parameters though, rather than being able to do it yourself.

It seems like it's just a bluetooth capable piggyback modifying speed signal to BDU (Bosch Drive Unit).

Antitheft = Box doesn't give speed signal to bike -> no assistant. I think this rebranding obvious. Don't know whats the correct english word but I would call it a little misleading.

Custom maps = Will have to manipulate again the speed signal but technically piggybacking speed signal wire it's impossible to change newtons that engine provides. Directly it doesn't change any parametres. The "mappings" must be dependent on what assistant mode you are riding.

Would be interesting to compare to Nyon MY21.

 

[StuckintheSpokes]

It seems like it's just a bluetooth capable piggyback modifying speed signal to BDU (Bosch Drive Unit).

Antitheft = Box doesn't give speed signal to bike -> no assistant. I think this rebranding obvious. Don't know whats the correct english word but I would call it a little misleading.

Custom maps = Will have to manipulate again the speed signal but technically piggybacking speed signal wire it's impossible to change newtons that engine provides. Directly it doesn't change any parametres. The "mappings" must be dependent on what assistant mode you are riding.

Would be interesting to compare to Nyon MY21.

In other words, useless?

P.S. I linked the thing.

 

[Hamina]

In other words, useless?

P.S. I linked the thing.

Rubbish was the word I was looking for. They try to convince customer that they have hacked the firmware and that's not the case.

After over 1000km with Volspeed the only thing I'm missing is longer wires that I could hide it somewhere in the seattube or frame. It's too close to getting hit when lying between motor and cover.

 

[Rosemount]

e-Bike-Tuning

Technische Manipulationen am Pedelec sind ein Sicherheitsrisiko. Bei Unfällen drohen Haftungskosten und strafrechtliche Verfolgung. Bosch fordert alle eBiker auf Tuning zu unterlassen.

www.bosch-ebike.com

 

[MrSimmo]

e-Bike-Tuning

Technische Manipulationen am Pedelec sind ein Sicherheitsrisiko. Bei Unfällen drohen Haftungskosten und strafrechtliche Verfolgung. Bosch fordert alle eBiker auf Tuning zu unterlassen.

www.bosch-ebike.com

I understand why they are listing out that information in that webpage but they are omitting certain information which would allow people to make a realistic decision themselves.

For example:

1. "Tuning is breaking the law". It's not law to prohibit tuning or restrict the maximum speed in all countries, so a global speed restriction prohibits the user of a wholly owned product to experience the full potential of their machine for those customers situated in a country which does not impose those restrictions.

2. Their statement around "Tuning at sporting events is prohibited" is a brash and wide statement that is simply untrue for a number of sporting events. Take for example, drag racing where tuning is not only not prohibited but is promoted. Using statements like this is nothing more than a scare factor for the audience of their webpage.

3. "Using tuned e-bikes on public roads..." EMTBs are multi-use machines. I.e. they are designed principally for off-road use and on-road use is a secondary factor. Making statements around legality and law based on only public road information is misleading.

4. They are failing to identify that closed-circuit and closed-trail environments permit the use of tuned machines. Nissan use a GPS configuration in the GTR which restricts the top speed on public roads but enables the full-potential on the race track as a solution to this challenge. Bosch have GPS mapping, to my knowledge, on certain control modules which is always active by default. Why not use a similar approach?

5. They state that tuning poses "a real risk" to the safety of the bike. Really? So EMTB's and road bikes aren't safe above a (variable set by law-makers per country, who aren't commonly stakeholders in the bike industry) maximum speed? If this is really the situation, they the manufacturers should block EMTBs from going downhill or analogue road bikes from riding above that (again variable) speed to prevent the perilous collapse of the bike in question. I guess we should also prohibit jumping on bikes as the impact from landing could be construed as potentially more damaging than speed.

6. I agree with the wear on the drivetrain.... BUT the primary wear is to consumable parts such as the chain/cassette etc which typically aren't covered under a full length warranty, or to the motor and its internals. So wouldn't a prudent approach to this issue be simply to check for tuning/derestriction and then void the motor warranty (as the car industry does) rather than limiting the capability of the bike as a whole?

7. "You pose a real danger to yourselves and others". This is simply a scare statement for the masses. They are failing to take into account factors such as skill levels, type of machine, terrain, circumstance and many other scenarios.

8. "Cycling is better without tuning." From who's perspective? A lot of people have a lot of different and wide ranging views on this, so again this is a very wide and open statement which may differ from reality.

 

[MsO]

Hi guys,

George here from ebiketuner. Shoot me a dm if you have any questions about Bosch tuning.

Check out this post too!

Just had error 504 on my focus Sam2 on firmware 1.1.2 just had it updated to 1.1.5 is the speed box 3 still ok to use it on latest firmware

 

[Flo]

I've heard it all now ?

Jokes aside, the speedbox 3.0 does work still, providing you stick to the countdown. Often 504 errors arise when riders are running old software on their bike.

Hi, George !
My ebike has 1.0.2.0 software. I don't have an ebike shop in my town so i can't update my software. I've done til now 3500 km with my ebike but i need more speed in some situations because i use my ebike most of the time like a vehicle. You sugest to instal a cip, and if your answer is yes - which one ?, or you sugest to wait a new cip for my Bosch gen 4 motor or for my serenity - better no cip ? Thank you !