Levo Gen 2 Derestrict and new bike questions

[Christy]

How ya’s
I pulled the trigger on a 2021 levo turbo comp recently as I got some fomo, looking the number of bikes for sale go down quick and 2022 bikes won’t be around until sept in Alberta.
I have a few questions?
What is the best and easiest derestricor to buy/install on 21 Levo turbo and can this effect me for warranty. (Obviously I won’t be telling them and I will be removing it if I can before I bring back to shop )
If I sell in a year or 2 how will I know the exact miles on the bike to tell the next guy or does the derestrictor show true miles ?
What is a must to buy for the bike before I ride it . Thinking of 3m clear the whole bike spokes and all. Maybe not the spokes or tires.
Also is it a good idea to sell the bike with derestrictor or would that devalue it ?

Thanks for reading

 

[R120]

Derestricting a bike always means taking a punt with warranty etc and the obvious legal aspects, but many members have gone down this route which doesn't involve fiddling around with the software etc

I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase

------------------------------------ EDIT 2/21/2019 - Hey it's me JD from the future (2 months after this first post). I wanted to add a little info here on how you can obtain your own set of gears that is 3d printed by Shapeways so I created a quick Wordpress site with some info: Guide to the...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[aarfeldt]

I think the easiest way, is to use the mechanical items.
The above listed is good - also the Planet3 is good.
There is also a free homemade 3D printed version you can try out.

They are easy to install, works quite well, and is fast to remove and leaves no evidence.
But they will destroy the built-in milage counter and speed.

What to change:
- go tubeless
- larger front ring

 

[Christy]

Derestricting a bike always means taking a punt with warranty etc and the obvious legal aspects, but many members have gone down this route which doesn't involve fiddling around with the software etc

I created a purely mechanical Turbo Levo speed limit increase

------------------------------------ EDIT 2/21/2019 - Hey it's me JD from the future (2 months after this first post). I wanted to add a little info here on how you can obtain your own set of gears that is 3d printed by Shapeways so I created a quick Wordpress site with some info: Guide to the...

www.emtbforums.com

Thanks for the reply ,
I did have a quick glance at this a while back and thought it might not last too long especially around mud and water and seemed more flimsy than the bad ass. I installed a bad ass on the fathers road specialized and it worked good and was easy but if you guys recommend the planet3 or similar mechanical one I will buy.
Completely understand the legal thing and I am not going to be doing 50km or anything I just want to be limitless and not feel like someone’s lassoing me when I hit 30kmh especially when I just spent 9k. Will the bad ass leave a trace after you removed it ? Just wondering for the dads bike although he doesn’t care too much.

 

[Christy]

I think the easiest way, is to use the mechanical items.
The above listed is good - also the Planet3 is good.
There is also a free homemade 3D printed version you can try out.

They are easy to install, works quite well, and is fast to remove and leaves no evidence.
But they will destroy the built-in milage counter and speed.

What to change:
- go tubeless
- larger front ring

I never thought of the front ring but I guess it’s geared to do 30kmh and I would have only thought of that when I got out in the wild with it.
How many teeth more should I get in your opinion.

Why tubeless ? I did that Before and had more hassle but lots do it so it has advantages.
I know it’s lighter but I remember hitting a rut before and broke the bead and got a flat in a second.

thanks for the reply and help buddy appreciate it

 

[aarfeldt]

I think you should try the bike first....and then find out if the front chainring is too small for you.
To me and my buddy it made a good difference.

Tubeless is normally preferred.
Most punctures are the normal type, and the sealent will repair this instantly.
But you can get unlucky and get a puncture that's impossile to repair with the sealent...then you just insert a spare tube and keep going

 

[Bigtuna00]

The Levociraptor is by far the "easiest" drestrictor, especially when you consider that you want to remove it to take the bike to the shop. Keep in mind with the mechanical solutions you will be limited by which hubs/rotors they support. E.g. with the JD I went from SRAM to Shimano rotors, so I had to buy a new clip. Then I went to Ice Tech rotors, so I had to buy another new clip. Then I went to Centerlock hubs/rotors, so I bought a Planet3. You get the idea With the Levociraptor I can use whatever I want interchangeably (my "main" wheels are Centerlock and winter wheels are 6 bolt), and it's 1 screw to remove it.

All current derestriction solutions will affect mileage. The planetary gear solutions make the bike think the wheel is spinning slower than it really is (150% for JD, 300% for Planet3). The Levociraptor modifies the circumference setting, thus making the bike think the wheel is smaller than it really is. The Badass Box counts every other magnet pulse (so 200% reduction). I'm not sure what the Peartune's actual mechanism is, but the general point is that no one has "hacked" the firmware to derestrict the bike, these are all indirect solutions. Also keep in mind if (or when) you get the motor replaced, the mileage is reset anyway.

Do everyone (riders and pedestrians) a favor and don't put a larger chainring on just so that you can go (illegally) faster. I fully support our right to use all the gears the bike came with, it's pretty frustrating to spend almost $10k on a bike and have no assist in the last 1-2 gears. I don't at all support those that throw on a 36t or 38t (or larger on other bikes) so they can speed on city streets (and I know a few that do this). This ain't a motorcycle. I don't agree with everything this guy has to say, but he makes a fair point about protective gear and accidents:

 

[Christy]

I

The Levociraptor is by far the "easiest" drestrictor, especially when you consider that you want to remove it to take the bike to the shop. Keep in mind with the mechanical solutions you will be limited by which hubs/rotors they support. E.g. with the JD I went from SRAM to Shimano rotors, so I had to buy a new clip. Then I went to Ice Tech rotors, so I had to buy another new clip. Then I went to Centerlock hubs/rotors, so I bought a Planet3. You get the idea With the Levociraptor I can use whatever I want interchangeably (my "main" wheels are Centerlock and winter wheels are 6 bolt), and it's 1 screw to remove it.

All current derestriction solutions will affect mileage. The planetary gear solutions make the bike think the wheel is spinning slower than it really is (150% for JD, 300% for Planet3). The Levociraptor modifies the circumference setting, thus making the bike think the wheel is smaller than it really is. The Badass Box counts every other magnet pulse (so 200% reduction). I'm not sure what the Peartune's actual mechanism is, but the general point is that no one has "hacked" the firmware to derestrict the bike, these are all indirect solutions. Also keep in mind if (or when) you get the motor replaced, the mileage is reset anyway.

Do everyone (riders and pedestrians) a favor and don't put a larger chainring on just so that you can go (illegally) faster. I fully support our right to use all the gears the bike came with, it's pretty frustrating to spend almost $10k on a bike and have no assist in the last 1-2 gears. I don't at all support those that throw on a 36t or 38t (or larger on other bikes) so they can speed on city streets (and I know a few that do this). This ain't a motorcycle. I don't agree with everything this guy has to say, but he makes a fair point about protective gear and accidents:

Ok yes , forget about the bigger front sprocket so and fair point too on the gears as I just don’t want to be lassoed every day I go for a cycle.
I Just looked up the levociraptor and it’s around cad 300 not too bad although some guy in China is probably churning them out for $10 max.
When I burn out the motor and I take out the ciraptor device, can the guy my specialized dealership know I used a deregulator???
That’s my concern.
I don’t want to get saddled by the some go getter bike tech that has a hard on for sniffing out evidence of deregulator device usage.
Forgive me for overthinking this and some might say and have said in the past just get out and ride the thing but it’s -20 Celsius right now so all I have is time to get it ready.
Thanks for the response btw

 

[MrSimmo]

I'll echo a few others posts here. Hopefully useful.

What is the best and easiest derestricor to buy/install on 21 Levo turbo and can this effect me for warranty. (Obviously I won’t be telling them and I will be removing it if I can before I bring back to shop )

Most likely the Levociraptor, 5 min job and doesn't require taking off the motor cover.

Yes it voids the warranty.

If I sell in a year or 2 how will I know the exact miles on the bike to tell the next guy or does the derestrictor show true miles ?

All current derestrictors mess with the odometer as they trick the TCU/computer into thinking the bike is going slower than it really is. So the reported mileage will be lower than the true mileage.

If you want to report the true mileage on a derestricted bike (currently), you'll need to use a different way to log the mileage such as a dedicated GPS device.

Also is it a good idea to sell the bike with derestrictor or would that devalue it ?

Without. There is a general opinion (similar to modified cars) that a derestricted bike has been treated badly. Whether that is true or not depends on each bike, but better to remove to avoid that risk. I don't know the law in Canada, but in the UK if the buyer asks a specific question around modifications, the seller has to be truthful and tell them it previously did (if the seller is aware of it), otherwise it's classed as a type of fraud.

 

[Christy]

I'll echo a few others posts here. Hopefully useful.



Most likely the Levociraptor, 5 min job and doesn't require taking off the motor cover.

Yes it voids the warranty.




All current derestrictors mess with the odometer as they trick the TCU/computer into thinking the bike is going slower than it really is. So the reported mileage will be lower than the true mileage.

If you want to report the true mileage on a derestricted bike (currently), you'll need to use a different way to log the mileage such as a dedicated GPS device.




Without. There is a general opinion (similar to modified cars) that a derestricted bike has been treated badly. Whether that is true or not depends on each bike, but better to remove to avoid that risk. I don't know the law in Canada, but in the UK if the buyer asks a specific question around modifications, the seller has to be truthful and tell them it previously did (if the seller is aware of it), otherwise it's classed as a type of fraud.

That’s some info.
Thanks for your time.

 

[Rusty]

Do everyone (riders and pedestrians) a favor and don't put a larger chainring on just so that you can go (illegally) faster. I fully support our right to use all the gears the bike came with, it's pretty frustrating to spend almost $10k on a bike and have no assist in the last 1-2 gears. I don't at all support those that throw on a 36t or 38t (or larger on other bikes) so they can speed on city streets (and I know a few that do this). This ain't a motorcycle. I don't agree with everything this guy has to say, but he makes a fair point about protective gear and accidents:

Me, I look at it completely differently and from a far more knowledgeable point of view.
Going up a couple teeth on the front is not going to have bugger all difference to your speed, but it will have huge benefits for chain and cluster life. I am a big unit at around 112kg and hardly ever used the big ring at the back. By going up on the front instead of 50%+ of the time being in the smallest 2 rings I am in 3-5. Doing that spreads the load on the chain by distributing the strain to a few more teeth, which increases chain life and also increases cluster life.
As far as going faster - the power cut-off is still at the same speed 32kph, which while I can get through that a little I can do it a hell of a lot easier on a non motorised bike. Hell, on my 40km road loop I can average 30+ kph on my singlespeed.

 

[Bigtuna00]

Me, I look at it completely differently and from a far more knowledgeable point of view.

Aside from the fact that, given your superior knowledge, you completely missed the point of what I posted, I'm sure you're aware that some of us ride stuff that's steep enough to use the lowest gear all the time? As in, on every ride?

Speaking of a knowledgeable point of view, the top speed increase is not voodoo:

Speed (km/h) Cadence: 60 80 100 120 Highest gear 26.3 35.1 43.9 52.7 Lowest gear 5.3 7.0 8.8 10.5

Speed (km/h) Cadence: 60 80 100 120 Highest gear 29.7 39.5 49.4 59.3 Lowest gear 5.9 7.9 9.9 11.9

http://gears.mtbcrosscountry.com/#29I1123I4891X29I813I4891

Whether 3-5 kph is "bugger all difference" or not is up for debate of course...but at least it's a concrete number vs the "huge benefits" to chain and cluster life...

Ok I'll stop now

 

[Rusty]

Ok I'll stop now

Please do. Where is the motor output in that chart? We are not talking about overall gearing as changing sprockets will not change the speed your motor stops assisting. If I am commuting I am on the 32kph limit almost from go to woah .... on an unpowered bike I am 10 - 15 kph faster, however we are talking about ebikes here ...... NEXT

 

[Bigtuna00]

Ok, I get it. You missed the context of my post. I was talking about putting a larger ring on a derestricted bike.

 

[MrSimmo]

I'm running a 36T ring on my Levo (which isn't derestricted) and I regularly ride above the cut off speed which makes the old legs burn! I also ran a 36T on both of my old Yeti's (SB5C for Trail and SB6C for Enduro) - principally because I span out on both bikes using the 30T that came with it and wasn't competitive (for that particular section of each race) using smaller rings.

The day my warranty expires, I plan to derestrict; not for top speed but because I hit the cut-off regularly coming out of flatish corners when riding DH which actually causes (at least in my scenario) higher risk as the bike suddenly looses momentum and digs in when I need it to stay light. Plus I personally have every ability to control the bike at pace above the limit when in environment safe to do so.

 

[boneht]

If you're only derestricting to avoid the lasso you won't need a bigger front ring.

 

[Hariwhit]

The Levociraptor is by far the "easiest" drestrictor, especially when you consider that you want to remove it to take the bike to the shop. Keep in mind with the mechanical solutions you will be limited by which hubs/rotors they support. E.g. with the JD I went from SRAM to Shimano rotors, so I had to buy a new clip. Then I went to Ice Tech rotors, so I had to buy another new clip. Then I went to Centerlock hubs/rotors, so I bought a Planet3. You get the idea With the Levociraptor I can use whatever I want interchangeably (my "main" wheels are Centerlock and winter wheels are 6 bolt), and it's 1 screw to remove it.

All current derestriction solutions will affect mileage. The planetary gear solutions make the bike think the wheel is spinning slower than it really is (150% for JD, 300% for Planet3). The Levociraptor modifies the circumference setting, thus making the bike think the wheel is smaller than it really is. The Badass Box counts every other magnet pulse (so 200% reduction). I'm not sure what the Peartune's actual mechanism is, but the general point is that no one has "hacked" the firmware to derestrict the bike, these are all indirect solutions. Also keep in mind if (or when) you get the motor replaced, the mileage is reset anyway.

Do everyone (riders and pedestrians) a favor and don't put a larger chainring on just so that you can go (illegally) faster. I fully support our right to use all the gears the bike came with, it's pretty frustrating to spend almost $10k on a bike and have no assist in the last 1-2 gears. I don't at all support those that throw on a 36t or 38t (or larger on other bikes) so they can speed on city streets (and I know a few that do this). This ain't a motorcycle. I don't agree with everything this guy has to say, but he makes a fair point about protective gear and accidents:

I have used the Levociraptor. It works, easy to install, and remove.

 

[Alex @ PLANET3.bike]

@Bigtuna00 summed it up pretty well, except for the small detail that Levociraptor does in fact achieve the smaller wheel circumference by changing the value of that parameter in the firmware outside the scope of what's possible with Turbo Studio by the dealer. Specialized Rider Care has confirmed publicly that this is visible to them on the diagnostics and voids the warranty (as mentioned by @MrSimmo). However, in real life it's a bit of a different story: so long as you reset the parameter back to stock - it should be fine, and if you have a "normal" bike shop or dealer, it shouldn't be a problem. As far as mismatch between the battery charge cycles and distance traveled goes - Specialized themselves has never refused a warranty claim citing this (AFAIK), but some very unfriendly dealers have cited this to customers which can then go two ways. Either you're aware that this is not a point which they can use to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that derestriction was in question, or you give up and get your motor fixed by a repair specialist such as Performance Line Bearings (or similar), or you take it to another dealer who is a normal person and understands that their job is to represent the customer and not side with the brand before even forwarding a warranty claim. Anyway, until there's GPS lowjacks on bikes, the argument about charge cycles is dead in the water because I have 4 batteries and 2 bikes, I lend my battery to friends with Levos who rack up charge cycles while my bike stands at home because I have no time to ride, some people turn off their bikes going downhill so half the distance goes out the window and so do the "high speed runs", some people tow their wife and kids uphill on their ebike etc. Just using Turbo mode all the time instead of every mode and being out of shape and heavy will throw the cycles vs. distance off by 5 times.

Yes, mechanical derestriction comes with a set of problems regarding compatibility of different hubs and brake rotors - but for a 2021 Levo Comp it's rather easy. So long as you stay on the CenterLock hub (be it the stock Shimano FH-MT510 or you switch to a DT Swiss CL hub for example, because Specialized sells a 30 EUR hub on a 6 grand bike) - your PLANET3 would remain compatible and transferable since it attaches the centerlock lockring which is included in the price. Also, there's no waiting lists or delays that somewhat affect others and it's delivered via DHL Express in the price for most of the EU (USA has to pay 5 EUR extra and Australia/New Zealand 12 EUR extra). The installation videos are somewhat entertaining, too. :>

 

[valium97]

How ya’s
I pulled the trigger on a 2021 levo turbo comp recently as I got some fomo, looking the number of bikes for sale go down quick and 2022 bikes won’t be around until sept in Alberta.
I have a few questions?
What is the best and easiest derestricor to buy/install on 21 Levo turbo and can this effect me for warranty. (Obviously I won’t be telling them and I will be removing it if I can before I bring back to shop )
If I sell in a year or 2 how will I know the exact miles on the bike to tell the next guy or does the derestrictor show true miles ?
What is a must to buy for the bike before I ride it . Thinking of 3m clear the whole bike spokes and all. Maybe not the spokes or tires.
Also is it a good idea to sell the bike with derestrictor or would that devalue it ?

Thanks for reading

View attachment 53067

Hey Christy,

congrats on your new bike!

I’d avoid all kinds of de restrict Ora that go beyond 20 mph because the voided warranty can be a big issue. Just met a person with a broken, 10 months old battery. Being able to have it replaced for free makesa lot of a difference as a new battery is 4 digits. Even after the warranty Specialized is good at helping it’s customers but only if you don’t mess with the sw.

I’d go with a bigger chain ring as well in order to use the small if the cassette less and extend drivetrain life.

other than that I went with other grips, pedals and will change handlebar and stem.

 

[Grannyjones]

Only trouble is warranty, it can be worth thousands from what I hear about failures

 

[Bigtuna00]

The installation videos are somewhat entertaining, too. :>

This is truth...

 

[Christy]

@Bigtuna00 summed it up pretty well, except for the small detail that Levociraptor does in fact achieve the smaller wheel circumference by changing the value of that parameter in the firmware outside the scope of what's possible with Turbo Studio by the dealer. Specialized Rider Care has confirmed publicly that this is visible to them on the diagnostics and voids the warranty (as mentioned by @MrSimmo). However, in real life it's a bit of a different story: so long as you reset the parameter back to stock - it should be fine, and if you have a "normal" bike shop or dealer, it shouldn't be a problem. As far as mismatch between the battery charge cycles and distance traveled goes - Specialized themselves has never refused a warranty claim citing this (AFAIK), but some very unfriendly dealers have cited this to customers which can then go two ways. Either you're aware that this is not a point which they can use to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that derestriction was in question, or you give up and get your motor fixed by a repair specialist such as Performance Line Bearings (or similar), or you take it to another dealer who is a normal person and understands that their job is to represent the customer and not side with the brand before even forwarding a warranty claim. Anyway, until there's GPS lowjacks on bikes, the argument about charge cycles is dead in the water because I have 4 batteries and 2 bikes, I lend my battery to friends with Levos who rack up charge cycles while my bike stands at home because I have no time to ride, some people turn off their bikes going downhill so half the distance goes out the window and so do the "high speed runs", some people tow their wife and kids uphill on their ebike etc. Just using Turbo mode all the time instead of every mode and being out of shape and heavy will throw the cycles vs. distance off by 5 times.

Yes, mechanical derestriction comes with a set of problems regarding compatibility of different hubs and brake rotors - but for a 2021 Levo Comp it's rather easy. So long as you stay on the CenterLock hub (be it the stock Shimano FH-MT510 or you switch to a DT Swiss CL hub for example, because Specialized sells a 30 EUR hub on a 6 grand bike) - your PLANET3 would remain compatible and transferable since it attaches the centerlock lockring which is included in the price. Also, there's no waiting lists or delays that somewhat affect others and it's delivered via DHL Express in the price for most of the EU (USA has to pay 5 EUR extra and Australia/New Zealand 12 EUR extra). The installation videos are somewhat entertaining, too. :>

Thanks for the info me man. I think the planet 3 sounds the safest bet for the time being