Decoy or Detour

[Zimmerframe]

UPDATE : NOT updated after 6th August 2019

I know there's several Decoy threads now and all have ideas and suggestions of either waiting or alternatives, so I thought I'd try to put them all together here to help people decide.

Most of the views, comments and suggestions are from what I've read here and are not necessarily my own views or opinions.

If anyones got any other suggestions or positives/negatives which they feel need adding or removing either add it in the thread or PM me and I'll edit the first bit so it's easier for people to sift through. For now I'll just list basic pro's con's as I don't have the time to collate the whole Forum's thoughts ... this won't be complete when I post it as I'll add to it when I take a break, but it's there if anyone wants to PM me bits I can copy and paste in.

I'm not trying to list every e-bike manufacturer. Just the bikes which fit/have been proposed as alternatives to the Decoy for people who don't wan't to wait/can't wait or have other concerns.

So .... The Decoy, undeniably a stunning looking and capable bike which offers a lot of bike for the money. I doubt there's anyone on here that if they were given a free one would say "Merd ! but I really wanted an XYZ instead".

Useful info : fidlock 450 DOES NOT FIT !

Pro's :

Looks amazing.

Good Value for Money.

700wh battery version due early 2020

Con's :

Unless you're really lucky, delivery is probably going to be September or October. So if you want something NOW, it's probably not the choice for you.

With a Carbon frame, which will most likely end up in the landfill, probably not the choice for the Vegan Enduro rider.

ALTERNATIVES, in alphabetical order.

Cannondale 2020 Moterra & Habit NEO (unknown availability/dates)

Included some information here for this bike as it doesn't appear to be listed on their website yet.

Moterra 23-24kg's model/battery dependant.
29" wheels with 2.6 tyres as standard except on "size small" bikes which use 27.5in x 2.6in tyres.

M Moterra 1 (27.5/29 ): £ 6,999.99 / €8,249 / $9,000 / CAD$11,500
M Moterra SE (27.5/29 ): £ 6,199.99 / €6,999 / $7,000 / CAD$8,750
M Moterra 2 (27.5/29 ): £ 5,499.99 / €5,999 / $6,000 / CAD$7,800
M Moterra 3 (27.5/29 ): £ 4,499.99 / €4,999 / $8,500 / CAD$10,500 (500wh battery)

Habit NEO 1: £6,999.99 / €8,249 / $N/A / CAD$N/A
Habit NEO 2: £5,499.99 / €5,999 / $7,000 / CAD$$8,750
Habit NEO 3: £4,499.99 / €4,999 / $N/A / CAD$N/A
Habit NEO 4: £3,999.99 / €4,499 / $5,500 / CAD$7,000

Pro's :

Bosch 4th Gen (2020) motor.
220mm Magura front disk as standard
Ratboy likes it
500-625w battery options
Integrated light on Moterra 1 and Habit NEO 1 models

Con's :

2020 Bosch motor might be difficult to tune until more is known or @Bearing Man develop an alternative main circuit board for private land use.


Canyon - Availability - Global, excluding USA & Canada ?
(Sold under Pure Cycling brand if you're in Switzerland)

Pro's :

Good value for the specification.
Extra discounts available until 29th July.

Con's :

Some concerns over delivery times & Support. On going internal changes to improve support.


Commencal - Availability - Global

Pro's :

2018/1029 bikes Under a week delivery.
29" or 27.5" available.
Internal or External battery versions.

Con's :

2020 bikes, internal and external, now showing as pre-order - possibly September - check site.
Size S 2020 Commencal Meta Power not available until Feb 2020
Internal battery bikes are limited to 500w e8035 battery. So, unless they release a higher energy density E8035 form factor battery, you're stuck with 500w for the future.

Cube.

Rob's Cube 2020 140 review :



Ducati (Thok RR) - Availability - Global

Pro's : Looks nice ! (that's my opinion).

Con's :

Haibike Flyon - Availablity - Pre-order

Listed as ~23kg's. (Rob says 28kg's in Video)
Rob's review :
Pro's :

120nm TQ Motor
630wh Battery
Sky Beamer 5000 built in headlight and rear lights.
In built "eConnect" - notifies you if you're bike moves/is stolen.

Con's :


Norco Sight VLT - Availability - Global - Excluding South Africa & United Kingdom ?

Pro's :

630wh Battery

Con's :

Slow delivery times ?
Fully Integrated battery is only dealer removable.

Lapierre Overvolt AM 2020 (Integrated) & AM GLP2 (Removable) - Availability October

Translated from French :
Google Translate

Propain EKano - Availability - Europe, Russia, Hong Kong, Singapore, Iceland, South Africa

Pro's:

Heavily customisation possible when ordering.

Con's :

still a 25 day minimum lead time.

Specialized - Availability - Global

Pro's :

Excellent after sales service reputation. Just take it to the shop and quite often it will be fixed there and then.

2020 model suspected availability September 2019 so good discounts to be found on existing range.

Con's :

Generally expensive for the specification (though discounts and deals are out there to be found, especially on pre 2020 bikes)

Some reliability concerns, but not sure how much of this is due to the sheer numbers of them out there.

For more uptodate information monitor the Levo/Kenevo 2020 thread :

2020 Specialized levo/kenevo rumors? - EMTB Forums

Thok Mig (R) - Availability -Global

Pro's :

Delivery in about 5 day's. (6th to 19th August no Deliveries !!!!!)

Great communication and after sales support.

Some customisation possible when ordering.
€130 Lyric Fork upgrade - contact thok to order

29" wheels fit - Sylvain Guintoli runs them on his Mig R.

Additional customisation negotiable on an individual basis (when possible !) Such as 29"

Con's :

They dont accept "desire" as a form of payment, not even if you try your best Italian and offer "Mucho Mucho Desire".


Vitus Sommet - Availability - Europe

Pro's :

Phenomenal Value, probably the best value for specification that there is, even Scottish People buy them ;-)

Con's :

Doesn't look as Sexy as the other offerings, but should be going fast enough that no one will notice.

If you have a problem you have to deal with Wiggle or CRC, which can apparently be slow or frustrating, so you might be without a bike for a while.

WHYTE - E150 / E180 - Availabilty (as of 26/7/2019, 2 week minimum, 4 week most likely - some rumours of December deliveries)

Fork RockShox Lyrik Select + RC 27.5” 150 mm
Rear shock RockShox Deluxe Select + RT 150 mm
Motor/Battery Bosch Performance CX 2020 625 Wh
Drivetrain SRAM Eagle X01 1×12
Brakes SRAM Code R 200/200 mm
Seatpost Crank Brothers HighLine 125/150/175 mm
Wheels WTB KOM Trail i30
Tires MAXXIS Minion DHF WT 2.5 EXO + / High Roller II 2.5 DD
Weight 23.8 kg
Whyte E-150 RS € 6,299

Review - 15 minutes - Whyte E-180 RS € 6,999

Pro's :

Internal removable 625wh Battery.

Con's :

 

[06z]

Other than the Decoy, are any of the other bikes available in the US?

 

[Nasty Nick]

Other than the Decoy, are any of the other bikes available in the US?

Of course. There’s the Levo, Commencal, Fezzari, a few Bulls models sold through REI, Cannondale, bikesdirect, rocky peak, probably the best bike available: the Norco Sight VLT, Pivot Shuttle, and I’m sure a few others.

 

[06z]

Of course. There’s the Levo, Commencal, Fezzari, a few Bulls models sold through REI, Cannondale, bikesdirect, rocky peak, probably the best bike available: the Norco Sight VLT, Pivot Shuttle, and I’m sure a few others.

Those aren't the bikes he posted. The only other bike I would consider is the Norco Sight VLT. No Levo for me as they are too much $$$ for the components that come with the bikes. Even the 2020 Levo's.

 

[Nasty Nick]

Of course. There’s the Levo, Commencal, Fezzari, a few Bulls models sold through REI, Cannondale, bikesdirect, rocky peak, probably the best bike available: the Norco Sight VLT, Pivot Shuttle, and I’m sure a few others.

Those aren't the bikes he posted. The only other bike I would consider is the Norco Sight VLT. No Levo for me as they are too much $$$ for the components that come with the bikes. Even the 2020 Levo's.

I agree the Levo is badass but way too pricey and the spec is awful. The Norco only gets great feedback.

I misunderstood your question. Idk if the thok or propane are available in the US. I know the canyon still isn’t and the commencal has been for years. I’d definitely consider the new meta power once they are available. I think they look great! And as lame as it to say, I wish my decoy had a place for a water bottle. I love how easy it is to grab the bike and do a big ride, which I didn’t have to wear my water...

 

[mikecol]

It sure seemed like a long wait for my Decoy Pro Race, but waited even longer for the Norco Sight VLT I ordered about the same time....so just went with the Decoy. Very happy with mine. 100% on all. Hoping everyone can get theirs soon.

 

[routrax]

I know there's several Decoy threads now and all have ideas and suggestions of either waiting or alternatives, so I thought I'd try to put them all together here to help people decide.

Most of the views, comments and suggestions are from what I've read here and are not necessarily my own views or opinions.

If anyones got any other suggestions or positives/negatives which they feel need adding or removing either add it in the thread or PM me and I'll edit the first bit so it's easier for people to sift through. For now I'll just list basic pro's con's as I don't have the time to collate the whole Forum's thoughts ... this won't be complete when I post it as I'll add to it when I take a break, but it's there if anyone wants to PM me bits I can copy and paste in.

I'm not trying to list every e-bike manufacturer. Just the bikes which fit/have been proposed as alternatives to the Decoy for people who don't wan't to wait/can't wait or have other concerns.

So .... The Decoy, undeniably a stunning looking and capable bike which offers a lot of bike for the money. I doubt there's anyone on here that if they were given a free one would say "Merd ! but I really wanted an XYZ instead".

View attachment 16145
Pro's :

Looks amazing.

Good Value for Money.

Con's :

Unless you're really lucky, delivery is probably going to be September or October. So if you want something NOW, it's probably not the choice for you.

With a Carbon frame, which will most likely end up in the landfill, probably not the choice for the Vegan Enduro rider.

ALTERNATIVES, in alphabetical order.

Canyon

Pro's :

Good value for the specification.

Con's :

Some concerns over delivery times.


Commencal - Availability - Global

Pro's :

Under a week delivery.

Con's :

Ducati (Thok RR) - Availability - Global

View attachment 16157

Pro's : Looks nice ! (that's my opinion).

Con's :

Norco Sight VLT - Availability - Global - Excluding South Africa & United Kingdom ?

View attachment 16155

Pro's :

630wh Battery

Con's :

Slow delivery times ?

Propain EKano - Availability - Europe, Russia, Hong Kong, Singapore, Iceland, South Africa

View attachment 16146

Pro's:

Heavily customisation possible when ordering.

Con's :

still a 25 day minimum lead time.

Specialized - Availability - Global

Pro's :

Excellent after sales service.

Con's :

Generally expensive for the specification (though discounts and deals are out there to be found, especially on pre 2020 bikes)

Some reliability concerns, but not sure how much of this is due to the sheer numbers of them out there.

Thok Mig (R) - Availability -Global

View attachment 16148

Pro's :

Delivery in about 5 day's.

Great communication and after sales support.

Some customisation possible when ordering.

Con's :

They dont accept "desire" as a form of payment, not even if you try your best Italian and offer "Mucho Mucho Desire".


Vitus Sommet - Availability - Europe

View attachment 16158

Pro's :

Phenomenal Value, even Scottish People buy them.

Con's :

Doesn't look as Sexy as the other offerings, but should be going fast enough that no one will notice.

If you have a problem you have to deal with Wiggle or CRC, which can can apparently be slow or frustrating ?!

I'm pretty sure the Norco's battery is non-removable, which is why it was not on my list. I Iove my Norco Search gravel bike, it's got about 15k miles on it and still rolls very well, I would have no problem buying another Norco, but a non-removable battery? Not for me.

edit: I also would have gone with the Vitus, it's a steal at the price, but the CRC/Wiggle rep on e-bikes support seems not great. I think if you are buying components/clothing/normal bikes etc from them, it's great, I don't expect to need support on a pair of pedals or some grips.

 

[Nasty Nick]

I didn’t know that about the sight battery. If true it’s total bs. We’re already getting screwed by companies like Apple, why agree to that on your bike?

 

[R120]

There are lots of advantages to making the battery non removable in terms of bike design, which is why some brands go down that route. The frame needs less reinforcement , so can be made lighter, and you can usually position the battery further towards the Motor keeping the COG low.

Its a no no for me, but I get why brands do it.

 

[TimVW]

Size S 2020 Commencal Meta Power not available until Feb 2020 though, according to the web site.

 

[Mydriaze]

Nice thread. Don't forget for the Commencal, higher battery will not - apparently- fit the frame. So it's not really future-proof for someone who want to upgrade battery like on the Levo or Decoy.

As for the Decoy: 700wh is on the way or it's a rumor?

 

[06z]

As for the Decoy: 700wh is on the way or it's a rumor?

On it's way. A few more months.

 

[Rob in a field]

Commencal - Availability - Global

View attachment 16173

Pro's :

Under a week delivery.

Is the "under a week delivery" correct? They have September on their website? Just emailed Commencal to find out . . .

 

[Zimmerframe]

Is the "under a week delivery" correct? They have September on their website? Just emailed Commencal to find out . . .

Only based on a user saying they received theirs in 3 days. But time said September for a small. Update the thread and I'll update the info at the top. Merci.

 

[Jamsxr]

Is the "under a week delivery" correct? They have September on their website? Just emailed Commencal to find out . . .

It will be under a week for the external version, the new internal bikes are significantly longer. Personally I would go for external, shorter lead time, better components and save 2k!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Is the "under a week delivery" correct? They have September on their website? Just emailed Commencal to find out . . .

Hi Rob, I'm being a bit crap with the thread to be honest. It's been 16 hour days, 7 days a week for the last few months with some coffee break " forum abuse (sorry @Gary )" for relief and a quick ride/fall off release of tension - which works great ! Though I think the ride without falling off works just aswell.

Let me know what they come back with, I've roughly updated with what I can see on their site.

Only Thok have come back to me with any response, I've not written to everyone so I can't say they're all crap and don't deserve your money and I made the mistake of writing to specialized France and not specialized usa so will probably have some jobsworth write back with something useless in a few weeks (I'm a bit jaded with my French bike company lack of support due to personal experiences) plus wrote to LG France a while back to see if they were interested in a semi-domestic washing machine for stripping down (which they probably wouldn't be) but with at least 10,000 cycles running almost none stop for 6 years with only valve changes (running ozone through it so they get hammered) I thought it was quite impressive ! But had a message back saying I was possibly using it outside of it's warranty agreement..... Really !

OK .. back to work .. I'm not Mike Patey, he's a superhero and seems to be able to get by on 2 hours sleep a night .. lucky git.

Any updates gratefully received so I can update the main section.

 

[Mydriaze]

I made the mistake of writing to specialized France and not specialized usa so will probably have some jobsworth write back with something useless in a few weeks (I'm a bit jaded with my French bike company lack of support due to personal experiences) plus wrote to LG France a while back to see if they were interested in a semi-domestic washing machine for stripping down

As a fat ass frog eater, I find this offensive dear Marmite-eater friend.

 

[Zimmerframe]

As a fat ass frog eater, I find this offensive dear Marmite-eater friend.

No one ever got fat eating frog's ! I think when used offensively, "Marmite Muncher" sounds more insulting !

 

[Mydriaze]

By the way, any news of the future Canyon Striven/Neuronn/Spectraln? Almost every brand realeased their 2020 models, can't wait to see the Canyon one before pulling the trigger for an e-bike!

 

[Eckythump]

You should probably knock all those 140mm travel bikes off the list as they are not realistic alternatives for a Deeks. Not knocking their capabilities and for most riders probably a better choice just different....
Maybe add current and recently announced 2020 Mondraker Levels. Kenevo, Sam2, Fantic's, Cube Stereo Hybrid 160???

P.S. know what you mean about Mike Patey, the man is a machine!!

 

[Zimmerframe]

You should probably knock all those 140mm travel bikes off the list as they are not realistic alternatives for a Deeks. Not knocking their capabilities and for most riders probably a better choice just different....
Maybe add current and recently announced 2020 Mondraker Levels. Kenevo, Sam2, Fantic's, Cube Stereo Hybrid 160???

P.S. know what you mean about Mike Patey, the man is a machine!!

He's an inspiration. There's a good video on carbon repairs done by one of his mates, ok, it's a propeller, not a bike, but it gives some good insight/ideas.


Yup, it's tricky knowing what to have on the list. Generally I've only added what others have listed/mentioned in the forum as alternatives they've considered/bought/ordered instead of the Decoy - so if they'd been considered as an alternative or accepted as an alternative, then for some - they are an alternative. Kenevo's not directly listed as I think anyone wanting a decoy, would wait for the 2020 Kenevo and I can't really list that as an alternative yet. Similar to a lot of the other 2020 bikes. The list was more started as alternatives for people who wanted something NOW and didn't want to wait for a Decoy. Otherwise it just turns into a list of "all the nice bikes available now and over the next 6 months. I added the cannondale, flyon and whyte as they were looking close to available and as it's a rolling thread, were possibly worth considering for some. It's a bit difficult as I'm such a good rider that most of the brands send me free bikes, so it's difficult to maintain a neutral position ! (sorry, I can't write anything 100% seriously).

 

[Eckythump]

This is the internet, it is your duty to make out like you have ridden everything?

 

[renedis]

Quite an interesting topic this is..

I'm missing the new Focus Jam2 in here.

Jam2 top model:
https://www.focus-bikes.com/nl_en/186035-jam-6-8-nine (29er version)

Available in 2.75, 27.5+/29 mixed and 29er. It comes with the new Bosch CX Gen4 motor and a 625Wh battery. They have changed the geometry, it's matched more to the Decoy and other 2020 bikes. Available from end august/begin september.

The enduro 170mm (27.5" edition) Sam2 hasn't changed. That one still has the old geometry and Shimano E8000.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I'm happy to add if we're sure it's considered an alternative to people who don't want to wait for Decoy. No ones every mentioned it that I've seen in a thread as an alternative purchase. I did have a quick look the other day and spec/price/suspension components I still wasn't sure the die-hard I WANNA Decoy buyer would consider it as an alternative purchase ? Any other opinions ? As I say I'm happy to add it, but there have also been suggestions that some of the things in there already shouldn't be in there - I'm trying not to just have a list of all the 2020 bikes and some others ...

 

[Zimmerframe]

This seems like a bit of a dead thread now... with the 2020 bikes all charging.. onto the stage, the possibilities seem endless and everyone has a different idea of what a decoy alternative is as everyone has a different reason why they want a decoy..

The only other interesting thing which came from this was that Thok are in a different league to everyone else on communication. (Though I think they're on semi-holiday for a couple of weeks so things might not be the same during that period).

So as of 6th August 2019 - no more updates to post #1 from me.

 

[Nasty Nick]

How much money got? The new Kenevo is coming any day. It’s a whole new design with the same layout as the new demo.

 

[Mydriaze]

This seems like a bit of a dead thread now... with the 2020 bikes all charging.. onto the stage, the possibilities seem endless and everyone has a different idea of what a decoy alternative is as everyone has a different reason why they want a decoy..

The only other interesting thing which came from this was that Thok are in a different league to everyone else on communication. (Though I think they're on semi-holiday for a couple of weeks so things might not be the same during that period).

So as of 6th August 2019 - no more updates to post #1 from me.

We are in august, in my country most of the people are go to the beach and try to fry their froggies ass like bacon. That's amazing, everyone is in holiday! So I imagine it's the same right now in the other countries for many companies.

Your thread is great and helpful. Right now, we don't know much about the incoming models. Canyon will probably give some news about an updated bike soon, at least I hope. I can't believe Santa Cruz is not working on something at the moment. And we will have probably some great news which will come straight after the 20-25th of august, when everyone is crying because they must return to work.
I didn't pull the trigger right now to buy a bike, I would like to have all the cards in my hands before selling my kindney. Still can't wait for an updated Kenevo, and see in real life condition some of the new Levo.

I' still really curious about the new Bosch motor. From what I've heard, it's gonna be great, really great, and the first feedback are amazing. I'm pretty sure Shimano will drop some insane motor in 2020, cause they can't stay with a good but perfectible motor when Bosch is doing a major update.

Still lost to be honest.

 

[Mydriaze]

How much money got? The new Kenevo is coming any day. It’s a whole new design with the same layout as the new demo.

We don't know anything about the new Kenevo. DH/heavy Enduro orientated bike would be awesome, but nothing was leak at the moment, as far as I know.

 

[Mauko]

This seems like a bit of a dead thread now... with the 2020 bikes all charging.. onto the stage, the possibilities seem endless and everyone has a different idea of what a decoy alternative is as everyone has a different reason why they want a decoy..

The only other interesting thing which came from this was that Thok are in a different league to everyone else on communication. (Though I think they're on semi-holiday for a couple of weeks so things might not be the same during that period).

So as of 6th August 2019 - no more updates to post #1 from me.

We are in august, in my country most of the people are go to the beach and try to fry their froggies ass like bacon. That's amazing, everyone is in holiday! So I imagine it's the same right now in the other countries for many companies.

Your thread is great and helpful. Right now, we don't know much about the incoming models. Canyon will probably give some news about an updated bike soon, at least I hope. I can't believe Santa Cruz is not working on something at the moment. And we will have probably some great news which will come straight after the 20-25th of august, when everyone is crying because they must return to work.
I didn't pull the trigger right now to buy a bike, I would like to have all the cards in my hands before selling my kindney. Still can't wait for an updated Kenevo, and see in real life condition some of the new Levo.

I' still really curious about the new Bosch motor. From what I've heard, it's gonna be great, really great, and the first feedback are amazing. I'm pretty sure Shimano will drop some insane motor in 2020, cause they can't stay with a good but perfectible motor when Bosch is doing a major update.

Still lost to be honest.

I did pull the trigger to get a Decoy two weeks ago. I was wandering all around and just had to make a decision. Funny part is that since the Pro model I ordered will not be available till end of Oct which means many things can change in the next few months both on bikes and motors and I still have a chance to change my mind (I haven’t planned for this but will obviously keep my eyes open during the meanwhile)

 

[Nasty Nick]

How much money got? The new Kenevo is coming any day. It’s a whole new design with the same layout as the new demo.

We don't know anything about the new Kenevo. DH/heavy Enduro orientated bike would be awesome, but nothing was leak at the moment, as far as I know.

No public leaks yet. But its in production. Looks like a demo 29.