Decoy Flip Chip High Setting

[Barty_NorthVan]

Hey Guys,
Is anyone running the Decoy in the Flip Chip High Setting?

In technical terrain I'm having a lot of pedal strikes and I'm sure the high setting will help but was wondering how different the Decoy will handle at low speed and high speed?

Thanks in advanced for the advice!
Cheers
Barty

 

[Fatbap]

Hi mate the bike came with the flip chip in low on mine not sure it it’s standard like that or not but I put mine in high straight out of the box I ain’t suffered many strikes at all an I love the way my bike rides it feels super planted at fast speed an slow stuff I ant had any issues it manoeuvres great. the low setting don’t even cross my mind tbh. I might try it out 1 day lol

 

[Borist]

I rode mine in both settings. I do like high setting more not so much for fewer pedal strikes, but because I feel better balanced. Try it, you may like it as well

 

[Astom22]

I have been in low since I got my bike, I'm going to flip mine tonight and try it out tomorrow. Had a few strikes today and I'm planning to ride the same trails tomorrow. Will be interested to see how it feels back to back.

 

[KenX]

Been riding mine in high from the get-go, main reason was to reduce pedal strikes, which with the 155mm Miranda cranks is certainly not an issue, but also I prefer a slightly more nimble feel to the bike.....

 

[Dr. Ergal]

Talking with some Decoy owners here in Italy I got the same feedbacks: most of them passed to the high flipchip position and found best balance and more playfulness
Some of those are used to put it back in low position only for BikePark days

 

[Astom22]

Well I flipped mine to high and haven't had a pedal strike, like before, since. Still get touches now and then, but it's terrain causing it. I do like the feel of the bike better, it feels more responsive than before.

I'm glad I flipped it, I figured out a couple of my factory installed shock bolts were in all the way. The upper rear shock bolt was out far enough you could read the lettering, but I didn't think anything of it, since it came that way. When I reinstalled it, it went all the way in and I was shocked. Went back and rechecked all my bolts and found two others that were out of spec.

With any luck, I'll put the bike over the 1000 mile mark tomorrow.

 

[Barty_NorthVan]

Well I flipped mine to high and haven't had a pedal strike, like before, since. Still get touches now and then, but it's terrain causing it. I do like the feel of the bike better, it feels more responsive than before.

I'm glad I flipped it, I figured out a couple of my factory installed shock bolts were in all the way. The upper rear shock bolt was out far enough you could read the lettering, but I didn't think anything of it, since it came that way. When I reinstalled it, it went all the way in and I was shocked. Went back and rechecked all my bolts and found two others that were out of spec.

With any luck, I'll put the bike over the 1000 mile mark tomorrow.

Thanks for the feedback guys!
I flipped it today when in installed my new Fox Float X2.. Lets hope it helps

 

[Astom22]

Thanks for the feedback guys!
I flipped it today when in installed my new Fox Float X2.. Lets hope it helps

Report back and let us know how it goes.

 

[TransAmMan]

Well I read all your responses and decided to give it a try yesterday.

High Setting observations : * while only a slight change in Head Angle "on paper" ... you will definitely notice it. The weight distribution changes and the BB drop changes as well resulting in a much different feeling bike)

Going up:

1. The bike felt immediately smaller and more nimble due to the increased HA and higher centre of gravity

2. The agility and climbing was noticeably improved. Its not marginal … its actually quite pronounced. Making tight turns climbing was very easy compared to the low BB setting.

3. Pedal strikes seem minimized

Going down:

1. A bit more "nervous feeling" still fairly planted but weight distribution felt different. Figured I "may" be able to get used to it. Its definitely feels different, but not necessarily in a bad way.

2. Jumps - ok here was the deal breaker .. I did not feel very comfortable sending big jumps with this setup (anything over 5m in distance - my gps calculates airtime and distance for jumps) and it felt more trail bike and less DH bike. The bike did not have the same confidence feeling off large hits and drops.

3. Segment times : I have a section of trail in Strava that I consistently get the same descending times on (within a second most rides). I pushed it really hard yesterday and felt pretty good riding so was anxious to see the results (no errors or delays from encountering other riders … 100% clear the whole way). I actually thought I was faster, because the bike seemed like it was going faster ……………
RESULTS: + 6 seconds (6 seconds slower). It felt fast because the bike was a bit more agile .. but the results showed I was quite a bit slower in this setting (in fact the slowest ever on this section) …

So in the end .. I immediately went back to the LOW setting. The jumping was the make or break for me. I did not have the same confidence in the air in the high BB setting.

The speed was VERY secondary, **but it was also important for me too as I do not want to be the slow rider on an e-bike to further enhance the stereotype from analog bike riders. I don't race (and really could care less about speed honestly)

Reasoning : Like many riding groups, we have a "riding order" on descents based on speed and ability .. and fyi .. I am #3 position (of 7). I do not want to go to the "back of the line" and have to deal with the e-bikes are slow mentality - LOL This bike can easily keep up to analog bikes … but this high setting made it a bit more twitchy and slower (for me anyway) . even though it felt faster.

I do encourage people to try it out! It is not one of those "kind of felt the same" decisions .. you will know after one ride if it suits your riding style.

If you want a more agile bike (like a Levo) this is a very easy way to get one . It really comes down to your riding style and we are all different in what we look for.

CHEERS

 

[Dr. Ergal]

Hi TransAm,

thanks for your feedback.
You confirm my suspects.
Do you think it could be a good idea to buy the size bigger (in my case XL instead of L) and keep the chipflip in high pos?
The bigger reach and wheelbas coming from the increased size could give stability and firmness, while the high chip setting could give a quote of nimbleness

 

[TransAmMan]

Hi TransAm,

thanks for your feedback.
You confirm my suspects.
Do you think it could be a good idea to buy the size bigger (in my case XL instead of L) and keep the chipflip in high pos?
The bigger reach and wheelbas coming from the increased size could give stability and firmness, while the high chip setting could give a quote of nimbleness

I would definitely want to try it first.

I don't think head angle is a big difference maker but RATHER the BB Drop.

The bike sits 7mm higher up in the high setting which changes the centre of gravity. You feel more "on the bike" vs "in the bike". This will be true regardless of sizing.

Lets compare BB DROP on 3 bikes (Decoy Vs Levo vs Transition sentinel)

YT Decoy specs - we'll use back for comparison 33 mm (low) vs 26mm (high). ** the bike sits 7mm higher up (centre of gravity changes) when you flip to the high setting. A 33MM drop is very low which is why pedal strikes happen (especially with a 27.5 rear wheel .. albeit a 2.8 version)

A Levo has a 27 mm drop .. which is why the high setting in the Decoy makes it handle very similar .. and also why the Levo is considered a trail bike and not a real descender (hence why specialized makes the Kenevo .. albeit it has 27" wheels so its hard to compare bb drop)

I came off a bike with a 64 degree HA and a 30 mm BB drop (transition sentinel) and it felt like a DH bike going down as the BB drop was similar to the Decoy in low. In fact it was more pronounced as the Sentinel runs 29" wheels both ends (wheel size really changes these numbers) and the decoy uses a 27.5" out back ..

So my speculation would be that sizing would make a negligible impact on FEEL .. however the wheelbase will add more stability for sure , but not really change the feel of the bike or ride characteristics (would feel like a longer trail bike)............….note: that's just my opinion

 

[Dr. Ergal]

Super explanation, TransAm
Thanks !!

 

[Astom22]

Pretty much confirms what I was thinking. For my local trails, all single track and not many jumps, they high feels much better. But this summer, when I go to the mountains and hit the bike park, I will flip the chip back low to get that more grounded feeling.

I'm on an XXL and was on the border between sizes and went larger for the stability in the summers. It will never be a nimble bike, but I love it and could not be happier with the bike and it's ability to present two distinct riding feels in one package.

 

[Barty_NorthVan]

High Setting Flip Chip Report: (After 2 rides)

I really like the high setting for the technical trails here on the North Shore and I notice it has more pop on the slower drops as well which helps overall. I haven't had any pedal strikes since the flip which is great. On Fast DH sections I notice its not quite as planted but I found I was going way too fast when in the low setting anyways. I will be keeping it in the high for sure.

The only negative I find is when it gets really steep the angle changes make the fork feel a bit short. I'm have new bar and stem on order. I'm hoping this will shorten my reach and rise it up for those steep shore scenarios. If that's not enough I think making the fork 170mm will help. I'll keep you posted as the parts arrive.

Cheers
Barty

 

[KenX]

Been riding mine in high from the get-go, main reason was to reduce pedal strikes, which with the 155mm Miranda cranks is certainly not an issue, but also I prefer a slightly more nimble feel to the bike.....

Forgot to add, I installed the 170mm airshaft in the fork, so the geometry is pretty much the same as flip-chip-low.........

 

[leftside]

Ok stupid question: which page in the manual shows how to flip the chip from low to high?

 

[Barty_NorthVan]

Ok stupid question: which page in the manual shows how to flip the chip from low to high?

It's really easy to do. Just undo the bolt and pull it out. The flip chips will fall out or you can pop them out and Flip each chip on both sides, then put the shock bolt back in and tighten and you are done.

 

[leftside]

It's really easy to do. Just undo the bolt and pull it out. The flip chips will fall out or you can pop them out and Flip each chip on both sides, then put the shock bolt back in and tighten and you are done.

Gotcha. Will give that a try.

 

[Astom22]

Gotcha. Will give that a try.

It's easy, you can let the air out of your shock, but I have seen people do it without taking the air out.

 

[lamomie]

it is done without deflating the shock absorber.

 

[leftside]

High is the way to go! Noticed quite a difference when technical climbing, and indeed less pedal strikes. Fortunately didn't really notice any difference when descending steep gnarly trails.

Also, spending the time to tune the shock and fork (sag, compression and rebound) is well worth it. Bike felt much poppier over jumps.

With these adjustments the bike felt much more "Enduro" and much less "e-bike". Of course I'm also getting much more used to the bike as well.

 

[Changleen]

I also prefer ‘high’ although I am probably going to order so Merida 155s soon. I ride a lot of rocky tech stuff and I don’t want to damage my cranks or motor on a hard strike. To this end I also run composite pedals so less energy would be transmitted to the Motor on hard strikes. I might try low again with the 155s but I really like how the bike feels on high anyway.

 

[Kampy]

I was getting a ton of pedal strikes in low, flipped to high and noticed less pedal stikes, though still a few... but I have other issues such as a leaky rear shock that may be contributing factors to my sagging sag

 

[Dirtnvert]

After getting more pedal strikes than im used to i put mine in the high setting, as well as rhe fork at 170. I rarely have a pedal strike now althkugh im quite a bit more familiar with the bike now. Im waiting on a 180 air shaft and ill be installing a -1 degree works headset when i put the shaft in. The goal is to be able to use the low setting for bike park and logging roads to the dh trails and use the high setting for alpine/trail riding. Decide if i need some shorter cranks after some days on that set up. See how it goes soon

 

[ichauchtt]

I flipped back and forth several times between high and low. The high setting gives me less pedal and motor strikes and more control in technical sections. The low setting clearly gives more confidence in fast downhill sections and a bit more of a "being one with the bike" feeling. The difference between the settings is remarkable, I did not expect that.

Flipping is done in seconds, it is really easy and can definitely be done while on a ride out.

 

[Santa]

Well I read all your responses and decided to give it a try yesterday.

High Setting observations : * while only a slight change in Head Angle "on paper" ... you will definitely notice it. The weight distribution changes and the BB drop changes as well resulting in a much different feeling bike)

Going up:

1. The bike felt immediately smaller and more nimble due to the increased HA and higher centre of gravity

2. The agility and climbing was noticeably improved. Its not marginal … its actually quite pronounced. Making tight turns climbing was very easy compared to the low BB setting.

3. Pedal strikes seem minimized

Going down:

1. A bit more "nervous feeling" still fairly planted but weight distribution felt different. Figured I "may" be able to get used to it. Its definitely feels different, but not necessarily in a bad way.

2. Jumps - ok here was the deal breaker .. I did not feel very comfortable sending big jumps with this setup (anything over 5m in distance - my gps calculates airtime and distance for jumps) and it felt more trail bike and less DH bike. The bike did not have the same confidence feeling off large hits and drops.

3. Segment times : I have a section of trail in Strava that I consistently get the same descending times on (within a second most rides). I pushed it really hard yesterday and felt pretty good riding so was anxious to see the results (no errors or delays from encountering other riders … 100% clear the whole way). I actually thought I was faster, because the bike seemed like it was going faster ……………
RESULTS: + 6 seconds (6 seconds slower). It felt fast because the bike was a bit more agile .. but the results showed I was quite a bit slower in this setting (in fact the slowest ever on this section) …

So in the end .. I immediately went back to the LOW setting. The jumping was the make or break for me. I did not have the same confidence in the air in the high BB setting.

The speed was VERY secondary, **but it was also important for me too as I do not want to be the slow rider on an e-bike to further enhance the stereotype from analog bike riders. I don't race (and really could care less about speed honestly)

Reasoning : Like many riding groups, we have a "riding order" on descents based on speed and ability .. and fyi .. I am #3 position (of 7). I do not want to go to the "back of the line" and have to deal with the e-bikes are slow mentality - LOL This bike can easily keep up to analog bikes … but this high setting made it a bit more twitchy and slower (for me anyway) . even though it felt faster.

I do encourage people to try it out! It is not one of those "kind of felt the same" decisions .. you will know after one ride if it suits your riding style.

If you want a more agile bike (like a Levo) this is a very easy way to get one . It really comes down to your riding style and we are all different in what we look for.

CHEERS

My experience is similar. I guess it depends on the rider’s body shape/weight distribution and riding style/prefernce.

I switched to High BB after getting fed up with the pedal strikes. But then I really didn’t feel comfortable at all. I was noticeably higher on the bike, and my balance was off and my confidence down. Note that my main interest is the downs/tech stuff, so trail riding is not my thing. I didn’t even try to jump in the High BB position, felt like it would be desastreous.

After 2 rides I went back to the low BB setting and I decided to learn to live with more pedal strikes in exchange for that much more confidence-inspiring and fun ride. I’m going to try to find a smaller platform pedal and perhaps try nylon pedals', the theory being that they will slip better when they strike rocks.

As a side note, on my analog bike (Pivot Firebird 29) I ride in High BB as I find the low BB on that bike to feel too mushy and slack. So it’s really all about individual rider feel.

 

[Gemini2k]

I switched to High BB after getting fed up with the pedal strikes. But then I really didn’t feel comfortable at all. I was noticeably higher on the bike, and my balance was off and my confidence down. Note that my main interest is the downs/tech stuff, so trail riding is not my thing. I didn’t even try to jump in the High BB position, felt like it would be desastreous.

The high setting with 347mm BB heightand 65.5 degree HA is still really aggressive/Downhill-y for a 165mm travel bike. Seems really strange that you'd find that unrideabley high and 'off balance'. There's probably another issue going on.

 

[leftside]

Yeah I hardly notice a difference going downhill in the high setting, but plenty of advantages for climbing and regular riding. I expected to feel more of a difference going downhill.

 

[Jeffsy29]

@Barty_NorthVan -

I've been running high ever since I got the Decoy due to so many pedal strikes and never looked back.....until yesterday.

I borrowed a ShockWiz and discovered that my DPX2 PSI was nowhere as high as it should have been for proper sag. After tuning my fork (less PSI required) and DPX2 (330 psi ....incredibly), I'm finally at proper pressures front to back.

After that, I felt like I was really perched up-high. It was a bit odd actually after a year of riding with more rake.

I just flipped chip to "LOW" and it feels normal now. I'm more in the bike and less perched up top on it. I had 1-2 mild pedal strikes, but nothing like when it was out of the box using body-weight PSI as a starting point.

So, I wonder how many folks running in "HIGH" chip setting actually have the proper sag going on, or like me, were running 'high' to compensate for too much dynamic sag.