Decoy 29 angle set

[Chrysaor]

Hi,

I have done a full service on my bike and I have noticed that the original acros headset bottom bearing was really grindy.
These headset bearings are not supposed to be serviceable as they are press fitted in the acros cups (which is a curious design to stay polite, I have always swapped the bearings very easily in other headsets without removing the cups each time).
So I managed to remove the cover and somehow repack it but it doesn't seem to be a long term solution. As I might change the headset, I wanted to get some feedback from somebody who tried an angle headset instead. I have the decoy 29 with a measured 66° HTA on the low position and 160mm fork which is not extremely slack.
I ride some technical steep and rocky trails and I sometimes have the feeling that I am a little bit too much over the front wheel when hitting obstacles and I loose speed and/or control. So the aim with an angleset would be to push the front wheel a little bit further away from me to roll over obstacles better. I guess loosing some handling in tight turns could be the counterpart.

Anybody running an angleset on the 29 ?

Cheers

 

[RustyMTB]

Not for a YT but I've just ordered a Works components two degree angleset for my Focus Jam2 also to take mine from 66 to 64 & I'll be happy to let you know how I get on. FWIW, the hardest part was working out which one to buy. You need to know the inner diameter of the top & bottom of your head tube & the length. Maybe this is obvious but it took a bit of working out on my part, to suss out the differences between ZS, EC etc.

 

[Chrysaor]

Yes, very interested !
I tend not to overthink about geometry numbers or small changes but as I will need a new headset anyway this could be the opportunity.
There is a knock block by default on the decoy but the fork should clear the frame on mine. I will just need to remove the knock block from the fork which seems to be a slightly annoying job...

 

[RustyMTB]

OK, it will be here in a day or two. I'll take before & after pics & feedback the ride feel. I did swap from a Sam2 at 64 to a Jam2 at 66 & the Sam felt very good in descents & while it's a different bike full stop, I'm reasonably hopeful this will recapture the sure footed geo of the Sam.

 

[Dirtnvert]

My og mullet decoy came stock with the 160 yari. I put a 180 fork and a -1 degree works headset and later added one offset bushing. I run it in the low setting and the head tube is around 63-63.5. Much better. Added 160 cranks and the bb is only slightly higher than stock. Just where i want it now. Sometimes i wish it was a large but the shortish reach medium is great a lot of the time

 

[RustyMTB]

63. Is this your bike?

 

[Chrysaor]

My og mullet decoy came stock with the 160 yari. I put a 180 fork and a -1 degree works headset and later added one offset bushing. I run it in the low setting and the head tube is around 63-63.5. Much better. Added 160 cranks and the bb is only slightly higher than stock. Just where i want it now. Sometimes i wish it was a large but the shortish reach medium is great a lot of the time

Hi, do you feel any drawback for technical climbing ? My theory is that the battery weight really helps to keep the front wheel on the ground compared to a mtb with the same geometry.
How was the process to install the works headset? Headset change is one of the few stuffs I don't have the full proper tooling for and I hesitate to try without, buy the tools or find a bike shop. My other bike is a stumpy with integrated headset so changing the bearings is dead easy and I am not sure it worth buying the tools for one bike...

 

[Dirtnvert]

It climbs well. Climbing steep tech is one of the most enjoyable things w emtb. Im hovering around the limit of traction on sime of our trails and finding the limit is the e8000 tourque on the climbs. I think i still can find a bit of traction from the tires, when dirt traction is good, if i had a motor with a little more pull. Seat slammed, standing with arms and legs super bent, ass over rear wheel, chin just above the stem trying to keep traction at the rear wheel while keeping the front down. The head angle hasnt been the problem.
Its a simple headset install, if you have a proper headset tool. One cup at a time as the instructions in the headset instructions in the box say.. that way it limits the cups from spinning when you spin the tool to tighten and press the cup in. If you dont have the tool you probably want to have a shop do it. Nice tool to have though but then its not a big expense to have a shop do it

 

[RustyMTB]

Ok so it's on the bike. Not been for a ride yet since as ever I'm stuck at work. Some pics for reference. Like my home made bearing press? Knocked up from an old spring compressor & a couple of bits of wood. Not sure the difference is especially obvious from the photos, might be my photography skills. The proof of the pudding will be how it feels on the next ride I guess.

Before

After

 

[Chrysaor]

Nice, indeed it is not easy to see the difference on the picture, I am looking forward for your feedback.
I have done the same kind of home made bearing press in the past and it worked okay. I usually put the cups or the bearing in the freezer few hours before to help. I just wonder how I am going to take the lower cup out of the frame the access is not super easy on the decoy...

 

[RustyMTB]

Might be more obvious from this angle, if you look at where the steerer emerges from the bottom of the top tube.

 

[Chrysaor]

How is it with the fork and the frame? You had a knock block before ?

 

[RustyMTB]

How do you mean? The knock block only stops me turning the bars beyond about 70 degrees either side.

 

[Chrysaor]

The works headset doesn’t have a knock block right ?
I was just wondering if the original headset on your focus had a knock block like the Decoy or if they only use the bumper I see on your picture

 

[RustyMTB]

No, no knockblock on the Works headset. The only knockblock is on the frame per pictures above.

 

[Chrysaor]

No, no knockblock on the Works headset. The only knockblock is on the frame per pictures above.

Hi Rusty,

Did you get the chance to ride it yet ?

 

[RustyMTB]

Yes I did.

This was more of a trail ride, not a great deal of downhill but one long descent at the end, so I still have some evaluation to do but first thoughts, on the flat, I can detect the steering feels a little slower, I do need to push into turns a little harder. On the down hill, the corollary is the bike is more planted, feels secure & sure footed over tech & loose sections.

In short, it's behaving more or less as I hoped raking the head angle out a little bit would do & in the end, for £60 plus an hour's effort in the bike stand, there's no real down side to it. I would say that if all of my riding were on the flat, then I wouldn't bother but for me, the local routes are a mix of trail & fast descents so it's been worth it. HTH.

 

[Chrysaor]

Great thanks a lot for the feedback. And anything negative on the climbs so far ?
thanks

 

[RustyMTB]

Not especially, I mean in general, climbing is in a straight line, right? so given it's a powered bike, it pushes through ok but as with riding on the flat, I can notice that little bit of laziness/extra effort in the turns going up hill. I'd say if it was a normal bike, I would feel it more - the motor takes away the down sides but my trail bike is around 65 degrees on 27.5 wheels & I can't ever recall being bothered by the steering performance on that one.

 

[Chrysaor]

Not especially, I mean in general, climbing is in a straight line, right? so given it's a powered bike, it pushes through ok but as with riding on the flat, I can notice that little bit of laziness/extra effort in the turns going up hill. I'd say if it was a normal bike, I would feel it more - the motor takes away the down sides but my trail bike is around 65 degrees on 27.5 wheels & I can't ever recall being bothered by the steering performance on that one.

I was more thinking about technical climbs, when there are rocks, roots and tight turns. I wonder if the slower steering you felt could be a drawback in that kind of situation.
It seems like your overall experience is pretty positive I think I am going to give a try as well But I might restrict myself to the 1 degree headset. And it seems like it is the only one where the upper bearing is still internal, as the original fork pivot is very short on my bike it might the best config.

 

[RustyMTB]

It is noticeable but not a killer. In the end, it's a trade off between the two. For me, I'd sooner have the down hill benefits & live with a slightly decreased climbing performance but there is a reason XC bikes typically sit at 65-67 degrees & DH bikes 62-63 ish, it comes down to your own riding & preferences I guess.

 

[Dirtnvert]

A shorter stem will control any extra wheel flop in tech climbing corners. Its not bad though and easy to adapt to after a ride or 3. Decoy has a really short headtibe as well so personally i wouldnt worry about an inset or external hs cup
Another possibilty , especially if you wish your reach was longer, is to put a reach adjust headset(8mm extra reach) and then add 10 or 20mm travel and a reverse components .5 degree angle spacer(just replaces the race on the reach headset and is 10mm extra height than a regular race).
Chances are most would be making their fork longer travel anyway so its only $15-20 more cost(price of the angle spacer) as the reach adjust headset is the same price as the angleset headset.
You end up gaining more than the 8mm reach because an angleset headset takes away 2 or 3 mm(maybe more depending on how high your bars are) reach having the steerer tube angled back.
Your bb will be a few mm higher and your seat tube will be slacker but those might not be an issue. One offset bushing will cancel out the bb height the angle space creates so that can be thrown in the mix for a few additional $

 

[Chrysaor]

Just finished to install the works components angle set, really easy and the quality seems high.
Unfortunately last weekend I’ve blown my bomber CR and the next day my spare DPX2. Both heading to fox for potential warranty.

 

[Chrysaor]

Bomber CR back from Fox, Fox 36 bumped to 170mm with new skf seals and the angle set from Works. First ride at the bikepark tomorrow will see if it really makes a difference !