Decoy: 2019 CF Pro vs 2020 CF Comp

[Santa]

There are still a CF Pro 2019 in my size available for the same price as the 2020 Comp.

2019 has slightly better components, which don't seem like they'll make a big difference but I may be wrong - Code RS vs R, SLX vs XT derailler, Shock and fork are slightly higher grade but apparently that won't matter.

On the other hand, the 2020 has a 170mm travel fork, slightly slacker HTA and shorter reach.

I'd like your opinion.

 

[JonasH]

Frame is 100% the same, when you increase the travel in the fork from 160(2019) to 170(2020) you tilt the bike backwards hence shorted reach an slacked HA. Go for the 2019 CF Pro Race and buy a 170mm kit upgrade to the fork about 30 Euros or something like that. Then you get both the Kashima bling and X2 with all available tuning options, Di2 and carbon wheels ?

 

[westcoastmtbr]

agreed

 

[TransAmMan]

You cannot convert the 2019 160mm fox 36 to a 170mm version unfortunately … I tried and both my suspension tuner and Fox claimed their was no 170 mm air spring upgrade available. If its a Lyric or Yari .. then no problem.

The 2019 E-Bike chassis Fox 36 uses fork stanchions that are 2 mm thicker …. therefore the Fox 36 in "e-bike" version uses a Fox 34 air spring inside (which is not offered in 170 size).

The 2020 170mm Fox 36 claims its "e-bike" specific, which is confusing as it may not have thicker stanchions any longer .. may just be valving (inquiry minds want to know)

All I know is I hit a wall trying to convert my 160 to a 170. If anybody knows of a kit that will accommodate the thicker stanchions in the 2019 "e-bike" model Fox 36 (that uses a fox 34 air spring inside) .. post up (as I still want to convert mine to 170mm if feasible)

 

[JonasH]

You cannot convert the 2019 160mm fox 36 to a 170mm version unfortunately … I tried and both my suspension tuner and Fox claimed their was no 170 mm air spring upgrade available. If its a Lyric or Yari .. then no problem.

The 2019 E-Bike chassis Fox 36 uses fork stanchions that are 2 mm thicker …. therefore the Fox 36 in "e-bike" version uses a Fox 34 air spring inside (which is not offered in 170 size).

The 2020 170mm Fox 36 claims its "e-bike" specific, which is confusing as it may not have thicker stanchions any longer .. may just be valving (inquiry minds want to know)

All I know is I hit a wall trying to convert my 160 to a 170. If anybody knows of a kit that will accommodate the thicker stanchions in the 2019 "e-bike" model Fox 36 (that uses a fox 34 air spring inside) .. post up (as I still want to convert mine to 170mm if feasible)

Now I’m crying ? got A 2019 on the way and this was my plan..... have to check the Head tube length I maybe I can swap with my non e-bike specific Grip2 160mm that I have on my Levo, both are M in size. ?

 

[JonasH]

Anybody know the cut length of the steartube on the fork for a M Decoy cf pro race?? My Levo it’s 15,5cm ? hope for similar length on the Decoy. Then I can make the swap an get 170mm on the Decoy ?

 

[TransAmMan]

My tape measurement shows around 16cm (** but not with the fork off the bike) ... so it will be close.

Maybe worth throwing YT a message and asking them specifically if the 2020 Fox 36 Grip II on the bike is now a regular chassis fork with e-bike valving vs the 2019 version with the thicker 2mm stanchions.

This was the response from Fox about converting a 2019 160mm 36 (I sent them the tuning ID code off a 2020 Fox 36 fork that was labelled e-bike specific too … another company though not YT)...

""Yep that's correct. That's the SKU for a complete fork from what I can tell. I found the tune ID (DY62). It seems to be described as for an e-bike but is a regular 36 in effect" (Dec 2019)

**So maybe worth a shot asking YT since your in Norway and things may be different in your neck of the woods. If you find out anything different ... please post up as I would love to convert mine to 170 mm.

If indeed the 2020 model spec'd on the YT is in fact a regular chassis Fox 36 (with 36 air spring inside instead a 34 air spring to accommodate the thicker stanchions in the 19 model).. your plan may work perfect.

This was from a website review on the 2019 Decoy (just search Rideemtb whyte e-180 vs YT decoy)

"Interestingly the rear of the YT Decoy has 165mm of travel which apparently came about after YT wasn’t able to get hold of 170mm travel e-MTB specific forks from Fox. "

So unless something changed in 2020 .. my guess is they are spec'd with NON e-bike specific Fox 36 chassis (thinner stanchions) to accommodate the 170mm size.

 

[JonasH]

My tape measurement shows around 16cm (** but not with the fork off the bike) ... so it will be close.

Maybe worth throwing YT a message and asking them specifically if the 2020 Fox 36 Grip II on the bike is now a regular chassis fork with e-bike valving vs the 2019 version with the thicker 2mm stanchions.

This was the response from Fox about converting a 2019 160mm 36 (I sent them the tuning ID code off a 2020 Fox 36 fork that was labelled e-bike specific too … another company though not YT)...

""Yep that's correct. That's the SKU for a complete fork from what I can tell. I found the tune ID (DY62). It seems to be described as for an e-bike but is a regular 36 in effect" (Dec 2019)

**So maybe worth a shot asking YT since your in Norway and things may be different in your neck of the woods. If you find out anything different ... please post up as I would love to convert mine to 170 mm.

If indeed the 2020 model spec'd on the YT is in fact a regular chassis Fox 36 (with 36 air spring inside instead a 34 air spring to accommodate the thicker stanchions in the 19 model).. your plan may work perfect.

This was from a website review on the 2019 Decoy (just search Rideemtb whyte e-180 vs YT decoy)

"Interestingly the rear of the YT Decoy has 165mm of travel which apparently came about after YT wasn’t able to get hold of 170mm travel e-MTB specific forks from Fox. "

So unless something changed in 2020 .. my guess is they are spec'd with NON e-bike specific Fox 36 chassis (thinner stanchions) to accommodate the 170mm size.

I wrote them an email:
“
Hi,
I just got really concerned regarding my plans to upgrade the fork to 170mm with a new air shaft. But someone told me that was impossible for the ebike specific 36 grip2...? But I see you sell the 2020 model with 170mm travel and that is also Grip2 ebike specific. Can you please add a air shaft of 170mm that fits the fork on my bike to my order if you have it in stock? Or are there ANY other option besides buying a new fork? Really don’t want to do that ?.
Any help would be extremely appreciated ??“

Will keep you posted on their reply. Could also be that they got some special air shafts from Fox?

 

[TransAmMan]

I wrote them an email:

Will keep you posted on their reply. Could also be that they got some special air shafts from Fox?

Very possible ? I think the intent was always for a 170mm fork (pure speculation here) but they were limited in 2019 via Fox … perhaps they make a 34 air spring for YT in 170mm length now ??

Let us know what you find out … I have been trying to convert mine for a few months now and have thrown in the towel - lol

 

[akuria]

Very possible ? I think the intent was always for a 170mm fork (pure speculation here) but they were limited in 2019 via Fox … perhaps they make a 34 air spring for YT in 170mm length now ??

Let us know what you find out … I have been trying to convert mine for a few months now and have thrown in the towel - lol

Just sell the fox fork and get a RS Lryik and go 180mm. Super easy to do and the air shaft is only $40 on amazon. The new Lyrik is better imo anyways.

 

[JonasH]

Just sell the fox fork and get a RS Lryik and go 180mm. Super easy to do and the air shaft is only $40 on amazon. The new Lyrik is better imo anyways.

Fox Grip 2

 

[akuria]

RS debonair..... with a vorsprung smashpot set at 180mm

 

[akuria]

Fox Grip 2

In all honesty I like fox a lot but my Lyrik is way better than all the fox 36s I've ever ridden. And it's cheaper. And it's the only 29er fork that can do 180mm. I have mine set at 180 and slapped in a vorsprung smashpot coil conversion. super silky butterness.

 

[JonasH]

In all honesty I like fox a lot but my Lyrik is way better than all the fox 36s I've ever ridden. And it's cheaper. And it's the only 29er fork that can do 180mm. I have mine set at 180 and slapped in a vorsprung smashpot coil conversion. super silky butterness.

I also like the Lyric, had it on my Kenevo. Smooth, but I feel that the Grip2 is kind of more controlled in the travel and still buttery smooth in the initial stroke. Also have experience with the previous version 2018 FIT, with HSC/LSC. That felt harsh compared to both the Lyric and the Grip2. However I have not tested the new ultimate or with vorsprung.

 

[TransAmMan]

I also like the Lyric, had it on my Kenevo. Smooth, but I feel that the Grip2 is kind of more controlled in the travel and still buttery smooth in the initial stroke. Also have experience with the previous version 2018 FIT, with HSC/LSC. That felt harsh compared to both the Lyric and the Grip2. However I have not tested the new ultimate or with vorsprung.

I would have to agree with this 100%.

I disliked the 2018 and earlier Fox 36's and have always switched to Lyriks. The 2019 Grip2 is a completely different fork altogether.

The Decoy rides VERY well with the 160mm fork ... but wasn't overly surprised that the bike was switched to a 170mm in 2020 (to match competitors offerings or to make a clearer distinction between the mullet and strict 29'er)

Now to solve the mystery question ……..

 

[akuria]

The biggest issue is I have with fox is they apparently are completely against doing a 29er fork in 180mm, whereas, the Lyrik comes in 180. I know grip 2 is a game changer but the debonair is no slouch. The only reason I'd do fox nowadays is to have to Gucci kashima coating...bling bling. The vorsprung coil is also a game changer. It has a hydraulic piston in it that adds a lot of progression in the later part of the stroke.

 

[JonasH]

The biggest issue is I have with fox is they apparently are completely against doing a 29er fork in 180mm, whereas, the Lyrik comes in 180. I know grip 2 is a game changer but the debonair is no slouch. The only reason I'd do fox nowadays is to have to Gucci kashima coating...bling bling. The vorsprung coil is also a game changer. It has a hydraulic piston in it that adds a lot of progression in the later part of the stroke.

Yeah, you’re right, it’s all about the bling ? have to admit that running black anodized fork and gold shock and Seatpost is not gonna happen ?. A bit vain. But also like that Fox has 36mm stancions and should be stiffer for that reason... At least my 2018 Lyric was 35mm. But, hey the new Lyric ultimate is one hell of a fork ?

 

[JonasH]

If the 2020 was WAY better than 2019, that means going up 10mm on fork travel really pays off.... a bit strange compared to the review of the 2019 must say.....

 

[TransAmMan]

Proof that suspension tuning and set up is critical for ride quality.

The bike is essentially the exact same and adding 0.5 degrees to the HA will not transform any bike.

I read every review with a "grain of salt". The BEST bike is always the one that fits your riding style. Its up to the rider then to get it set up properly suspension wise

The only thing one has no control over is how the bike looks ... and hence why the Decoy is always at the TOP of the list for me.

 

[JonasH]

Hi,
@TransAmMan
Just spoke to YT technical on the phone. They told me that there was no way I could upgrade the 2019 36 fork to 170mm travel. All the 2020 36 forks with 170mm was OEM forks built specifically for YT Decoy. He confirmed that they were e-bike specific with thicker stanchions, but told me that the internals was custom for this fork. They did not have any spare parts when I asked them for a air shaft of 170mm.

The X2 shock did not have a custom tune from YT, just a standard 2020 model. He was not aware of any upgrades to the internals from 2019 to 2020, but this is in that case applicable for all X2’s out there.

I then called the Fox dealer in Norway, they confirmed that it’s not possible to order an air shaft for 34 mm to 170mm and did not believe that fox would have such in stock as a “leftover/spare-part” for the 2020 Decoy production. And told me that for new Fox range 2021 (release in June/July 2020) there would not be anymore ebike specific forks, they would all be a Fox 38…… I think I’ll flip my 160mm 36 and buy a new 38 when that comes available, that will probably be a kick-ass fork.

 

[TransAmMan]

^^ Thanks for the confirmation and validating the rumour of the Fox38 appearing next year. Great work . I'll keep an eye out for a Fox 38 as well since 2021 usually means June 2020 for aftermarket goods

FWIW .. I did have my HSC circuit revalved over the winter … suspension tuner said it would make the bike a little "poppier" (excuse me for using that word). That may be all YT did besides increase the travel since the complaints that Loam Wolf raised was it was too GLUED to ground. ..

At least we can 90% confirm some 2021 rumours for the Decoy .. Likely a Fox 38 Fork .. new 38mm lower headset option .. and my guess is new X2 shock coming and a switch to Shimano brakes and hubs as well. Only 9 more months of speculation

 

[JonasH]

^^ Thanks for the confirmation and validating the rumour of the Fox38 appearing next year. Great work . I'll keep an eye out for a Fox 38 as well since 2021 usually means June 2020 for aftermarket goods

FWIW .. I did have my HSC circuit revalved over the winter … suspension tuner said it would make the bike a little "poppier" (excuse me for using that word). That may be all YT did besides increase the travel since the complaints that Loam Wolf raised was it was too GLUED to ground. ..

At least we can 90% confirm some 2021 rumours for the Decoy .. Likely a Fox 38 Fork .. new 38mm lower headset option .. and my guess is new X2 shock coming and a switch to Shimano brakes and hubs as well. Only 9 more months of speculation

Was it the fork or shock you had revalved? Do you have the X2?

 

[TransAmMan]

Was it the fork or shock you had revalved? Do you have the X2?

Had the HSC circuit re-valved on the 36 fork. ** Ill try to find my invoice to provide specific details of what was done.

Since its still winter where I am (2 more weeks I hope till riding) I am just going off riding down the street and bouncing around like a kid on a BMX -lol … but the front end definitely feels more lively after the revalve. The true test will be out on the trails.

The shock was just rebuilt with a new inner air can installed (had scratches due to improper factory installation from new ... very common with Fox goods). The X2 seems pretty dialed as is, and I think the bottom out bumper added in 19 suits the Decoy very well

I have a PUSH 11-6 sitting on my shelf, and have had no desire to install it on the Decoy as the X2 works pretty darn good

 

[westcoastmtbr]

The Loam Wolf review of the 2020 with the 170 fork really surprised me. I'm thinking the bike may have always been designed for the 170mm Fork as they really struggled with the 2019. I'm wondering if this 10mm increase in fork travel would help address pedals strikes? Yeah, it's just 10mm difference, but it would raise that bb just a bit and help avoid strikes. I really like the guys at Loam Wolf. You have to love a bunch of buddies getting together and personally, I would take their review more seriously than many of the others. A bunch of regular guys with various degrees of riding skills (mostly well above average), but guess what, we're a bunch of regular guys too. It's why Rob is so well liked, he's getting better all the time and I think this represents most of the riding public. I have a 2019 Lyrik on my Decoy and will bump it up to 170 at only $40 USD. Yeah!

 

[JonasH]

What size Decoy should a 174cm guy get? Ordered a M but can cancel/change my order. Just saw their size chart M up to 173, L starts at 172Cm
Just canceled the order on the 2019 M. Have to wait until the cash is back on my account before I order 2020 in L. I thought I was a M have always been in all the other brands I had.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Get a 180mm air shaft for the Lyrik. I tried 170mm and it made little difference. 180mm you can actually feel. The BB is still low at 340-342mm despite the taller 180mm fork (in the low position).
You also should upgrade your damper to the Charger 2.1 RC2 and get SKF seals to convert your Lyrik to an Ultimate. The Motion Control damper in the Yari is very harsh on consecutive big hits (like bombing through a chunky rock garden).
Also a good idea to lower the handlebar height or stem spacers to keep the cockpit position similar to stock but thats personal preference.

 

[MTB_MIKE]

Fox’s decision to run Fox 34 internals on a 36 Chassis is a mistake IMO. The bike and rider overall weight difference between ebike and enduro bike is only 20lbs. If you are an average 170lb guy, its like running a Fox 36 on an Enduro bike as a 190lb guy.

I havent ridden the latest 34 so I don’t know if the performance is any worse than a 36 besides the stiffness but i’m sure it contributed to the Loam Wolf not liking the 2019 Decoy as much. Also, are we sure the 2020 E FOX 36’s still run 34mm internals?
My buddy’s Norco Range VLT has Emtb Fox 36 with 180mm of travel and despite the “E” sticker, it may have 36 internals

 

[akuria]

Get a 180mm air shaft for the Lyrik. I tried 170mm and it made little difference. 180mm you can actually feel. The BB is still low at 340-342mm despite the taller 180mm fork (in the low position).
You also should upgrade your damper to the Charger 2.1 RC2 and get SKF seals to convert your Lyrik to an Ultimate. The Motion Control damper in the Yari is very harsh on consecutive big hits (like bombing through a chunky rock garden).
Also a good idea to lower the handlebar height or stem spacers to keep the cockpit position similar to stock but thats personal preference.

View attachment 26929

Love that build. I agree. I did the 180mm on my Lyrik but also went a step further and did a Vorsprung Smashpot coil kit in it instead. also went with a coil rear shock with a progressive spring. It's a real game changer. I literally am in love with my bike's setup. Also went with a ENVE m7 handle bar with a lower rise.

BTW. what rear mudguard are you running?

 

[JonasH]

Fox’s decision to run Fox 34 internals on a 36 Chassis is a mistake IMO. The bike and rider overall weight difference between ebike and enduro bike is only 20lbs. If you are an average 170lb guy, its like running a Fox 36 on an Enduro bike as a 190lb guy.

I havent ridden the latest 34 so I don’t know if the performance is any worse than a 36 besides the stiffness but i’m sure it contributed to the Loam Wolf not liking the 2019 Decoy as much. Also, are we sure the 2020 E FOX 36’s still run 34mm internals?
My buddy’s Norco Range VLT has Emtb Fox 36 with 180mm of travel and despite the “E” sticker, it may have 36 internals

YT told me that it was same thickness on the stanchions on the 2020 as 2019, must be 34 internals on the air side then? I totally agree with you on weight issue. That’s why I have a normal 36 on my Levo 2019

 

[westcoastmtbr]

You did the best wrap on that bike. Can you share some advice on material, method, heck anything on how you did that. It's simply awesome. I want to change the graphics on my bike too. Did you have a template measured out. Again, super super cool