De-restricted eBikes in France

[Giff]

France have now legislated against de-restriced eBikes.

1.Your bike is confiscated
2.Up to 1 year in prison ( 2 for a dealer)
3.30,000€ fine.

The French don't do things by halves !

 

[AlwynM]

That seems pretty harsh. Imagine having your eMTB taken away. I'd be gutted.

 

[KennyB]

That seems pretty harsh. Imagine having your eMTB taken away. I'd be gutted.

But it wouldn't be an eMTB taken away, but an illegal, unregistered, uninsured something

 

[KeithR]

France have now legislated against de-restriced eBikes.

1.Your bike is confiscated

To be fair, you get it back once it has been "brought into conformity"...

 

[Nicho]

That seems pretty harsh. Imagine having your eMTB taken away. I'd be gutted.

It would be very boring riding it round and round your prison cell for a year.

 

[kimpet]

Wow shit, the government is really afraid that their missing out a few euro's in tax on motorized vehicles, witch this is ALL about, it has NOTHING to do with safety if you believe that you are really oblivious. 80% of the french people can pedal a bike above 25km/h with limited effort. How does this "tax" punish people wanting to use the bike as a alternative to a car match with that stupid "green politics" they are all horny about in the EU. What a joke...

 

[MrSimmo]

Wow shit, the government is really afraid that their missing out a few euro's in tax on motorized vehicles, witch this is ALL about, it has NOTHING to do with safety if you believe that you are really oblivious. 80% of the french people can pedal a bike above 25km/h with limited effort. How does this "tax" punish people wanting to use the bike as a alternative to a car match with that stupid "green politics" they are all horny about in the EU. What a joke...

Unfortunately a symptom of the power of the oil companies...

I’m willing to bet there will be some research that has been undertaken to show outrageous danger caused by derestriction, most likely funded by someone who has something to gain by limiting the use of alternative transport.

 

[nasamorpheus]

France have now legislated against de-restriced eBikes.

1.Your bike is confiscated
2.Up to 1 year in prison ( 2 for a dealer)
3.30,000€ fine.

The French don't do things by halves !

GJ Viva La France, Viva La Republic

 

[KeithR]

Wow shit, the government is really afraid that their missing out a few euro's in tax on motorized vehicles, witch this is ALL about, it has NOTHING to do with safety if you believe that you are really oblivious.

Waaaay too much unsupportable conspiracy theorising there. I strongly doubt that you're blessed with a special insight into the truth of this that's denied to the rest of us...

The fact is that our French friends just seem to like the sledgehammer to crack a nut school of legislating, when it comes to anything ostensibly safety related - like the laws introduced in Paris last year around the use of e-scooters:

Paris wants to limit electric scooters to 8 km/h (5 mph), Bird & Lime respond

Paris, like many large International cities, has not been immune to the electric scooter phenomenon. As thousands of electric scooters...

electrek.co

8 kph/5 mph speed limits in busy areas..!

80% of the french people can pedal a bike above 25km/h with limited effort.

And they still can. This law doesn't change that fact at all.

Nothing about How does this "tax" punish people wanting to use the bike as a alternative to a car match with that stupid "green politics" they are all horny about in the EU. What a joke...

"Stupid" green politics?

Ohhhh Kaaaayy...

What France has done here doesn't materially change anything in terms of the legality of derestricting ebikes, except making the (largely unenforceable in reality) penalties greater; and it certainly doesn't do anything significant to force people back into cars.

This law was actually passed on Christmas Eve last year, and this is the first time it's come up on here, nearly 8 months later.

Hardly suggests a shattering Real World impact, does it?

 

[KeithR]

I’m willing to bet there will be some research that has been undertaken to show outrageous danger caused by derestriction, most likely funded by someone who has something to gain by limiting the use of alternative transport.

For the most part, except in limited spaces like national security, public policy has to be based on publicly available information, and there's no research suggesting that derestriction is, of itself, an elevated safety risk. So there's simply no way that this change in law - daft as it appears to us - could be based purely on covert evidence to the contrary from vested interests.

In France (and across much of Europe), "The Greens" wield considerable political power and influence - both locally and centrally - and that power is on the increase. It's simply not tenable to suggest that the oil lobby (for example) could force a legal change like this through without overwhelming scrutiny and challenge.

 

[kimpet]

For the most part, except in limited spaces like national security, public policy has to be based on publicly available information, and there's no research suggesting that derestriction is, of itself, an elevated safety risk. So there's simply no way that this change in law - daft as it appears to us - could be based purely on covert evidence to the contrary from vested interests.

In France (and across much of Europe), "The Greens" wield considerable political power and influence - both locally and centrally - and that power is on the increase. It's simply not tenable to suggest that the oil lobby (for example) could force a legal change like this through without overwhelming scrutiny and challenge.

"ooooh kaaaay" yeah well, if you really think when ebikes came on to the market the goverments worldwide didnt shit their pants when they saw what commercial e-bikes(not homebrews from alibaba some techie threw together) was capable of wrecking havoc with the collective traffic and they quickly put down laws to limit their use quick-fast-in-a-hurry, imagine jumping on your e-bike on doing 45km/h to work instead of overprized, overcrowded, non flexible collective traffic wich only covers like maybe 3% of the western world pop in a adequate way. No they don't want people to ride their e-bikes and not pay collective and road-taxes. If they wanted that they would make alot more tax exemptions (i know some countries has them but not all). No instead e-bikes are luxury items only for the selected few who can throw 3-7k euros at a bike with rather limited commuting abilities and is basicly only a glorified offroad toy. tightly limited by restrictions. A non scumbag way of doing it would be speed limits for bikes, wich would be no problems, a country could state "25km/h in cities and 45km/h outside city areas" and just like with cars people will break the laws, and should be punished for that law-break. Not neutering the the product with bogus laws... just imagine loosing your bike you payed maybe 9000 euro for because you pedalled 35km/h on a lonely road. That is not good lawmaking, a good law is not seen as universal unfair. and the punishment must match the crime.

 

[Rosemount]

Insurance companies have a much bigger influence than lobby than oil companies .
Just look at all the PPE that workers must wear now days .

 

[wepn]

Liberté, égalité, fraternité?

Mmm I don’t think Renault, Peugeot and Citroën* like e-bikes very much let alone fast ones.

* around 230,000 combined direct automotive manufacturing jobs, sales are down & e-bikes are now the disruptor.

 

[Mikerb]

Correction...it has featured on the forum before and with much the same reaction. Keep in mind the vast majority of ebikes are not emtbs. The legal penalties are excessive and I have seen nothing to suggest any other EU member has done the same.
The reason is I think very straight forward. Ebikes are practically the only motorised vehicles that do not require Type Approval and it is the Type Approval regulations that specify all of the safety aspects of design and construction. Crash testing/ braking efficiency/ materials integrity/ fire hazard...etc. To turn a blind eye to the manufacture or modification of vehicles that have no type aporoval merely because the motor is electric would undermine all of the vehicle and Road Traffic regulations. Pedelecs were given special dispensation. We may bemoan the assisted speed limit imposed but it is unlikely the ebike market as we know it would have taken off without that dispensation. The size of the market now may well be big enough for the biggest brands to be able to carry the cost of Type Approval so be careful what you wish for because prices would rise and the number of brands would shrink.

 

[MrSimmo]

Totally.

Also realistically a derestricted bike is gonna shave what, 3-4 minutes off of my 20km commute?!?

Humans love to complain especially with some emotional theories. Personally another 5kph or derestricted doesn’t matter.

There was a super fat woman hauling ass on a FF e bike and her handlebar about took my kids head off. Do we really want 120 kilo high speed balls of unathletic fat people given higher speeds?!?

I’d say restrict the masses just as we restrict semi trucks people want to make it political to a point that they ignorantly ignore the fact that you’re giving a mass of 100kilo plus people who likely have never been athletic in their life or understand biking dynamics The ability to drive high speed vehicles where our families push strollers with children daily.

Maybe thats the right approach - permit derestriction but you must hold the ability to ride said vehicle - either through testing or otherwise. Similar to motorbikes - there are classes of motorbikes in the UK (AM/A2/A) etc where you can only legally ride (on the public road) the class (and below) that you carry a licence for.

 

[Mikerb]

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, the UK does in respect of both ebikes and e -scooters. Firstly we become unshackled from EU regulations next year but there is also a funded programme to promote the use of cycles/ebikes and limited trials of e scooter rentals. The Govt has already pre-announced a subsidised purchase scheme in addition to the existing Cycle to Work scheme. No discussion as yet on regulation but that must surely come into focus at some stage. The drivers are reduction of carbon emissions/pollution , personal health and fitness, and coping with the reduced capacity of public transport all the time we have to live with the covid virus.

 

[wepn]

Do we really want 120 kilo high speed balls of unathletic fat people given higher speeds?!?

I'm guesstimating it'd take a lot more than derestriction to haul a 120 kg rider to high speeds. I know several people on the extra heavy side who are super skilled riders and they need every bit of power & torque they have - which is a lot.

 

[routrax]

It would be very boring riding it round and round your prison cell for a year.

Think of how good you'd be at trials though...

 

[Zimmerframe]

Riding a de-restricted or restricted bike in France is the least of your worries ..

The weather - that's what gets you :

Huge hail storm hits Critérium du Dauphiné riders and spectators

Riders scramble for protection and left with red welts after being battered by hailstones

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[maynard]

Who cares about the French. It wasn't long ago they where killing there whole royal family including the children. And bombing paradise with nuclear weapons for fun . I went for a ride at a bike park today on my de restricted bike . The only person I'm harming is my own ego with my ordinary riding style. A guy even waved to me . Which was nice cos I've been told its frowned upon riding eebs there .

 

[Two Tone]

That seems pretty harsh. Imagine having your eMTB taken away. I'd be gutted.

Injure a pedestrian on an unrestricted e-bike and likely they'll take your house away.

 

[R120]

Perhaps this is reflective of ebike use in France, I just got back today from 2 weeks out in rural Normandy, and pretty much every bike you see being used for commuting/leisure/ popping out to get a croissant or two is an ebike of some sort or another.

 

[Mikerb]

Is "popping out to get a croissant" a French euphamism for a visit to a mistress?

 

[Bobajobbob]

That would be popping out for crumpet

The French do love a harsh law or two that will then never ever be enforced and will be widely ignored by the populace.

 

[Rosemount]

I'm guesstimating it'd take a lot more than derestriction to haul a 120 kg rider to high speeds. I know several people on the extra heavy side who are super skilled riders and they need every bit of power & torque they have - which is a lot.

Like an incline ? Say maybe a hill ?

Bicycle - motor or not can exceed 25 or 32 KMH . No riding on the foot path . The clue is in the name .

 

[Nicho]

Think of how good you'd be at trials though...

Also, your battery would never run out of power; in prisons the cells are always full.

 

[maynard]

Well, their women are hotter than yours(AU mountain women) so.... I care. That French accent is sexy. Even on @Zimmerframe

Aussie women are as hot as French women . All women are equally hot and annoying as each other.

 

[Beekeeper]

Also, your battery would never run out of power; in prisons the cells are always full.

And whilst in prison, any attempts by them to restrict your motor can easily be jail broken.

 

[Zimmerframe]

And whilst in prison, any attempts by them to restrict your motor can easily be jail broken.

If you were lucky, you might end up in a private prison rather than a public prison. Then you'd be ok to de-restrict your ebike in your cell.

 

[Gary]

Lucky guy