Crazy steep and seats

[outerlimits]

On Saturday I rode down some longish crazy steep trails that had me sitting on the back tail edge of the saddle, literally.
Now when I say crazy steep, I’m talking, almost like a cliff in places at around 80 degrees but mostly around 70degrees. It was a loamy surface with a lot of small trees and gradual turns. I wish I was exaggerating at the steepness of this trail named “Parachure” but it was scarey steep. I don’t usually give two shits, but I was crapping myself all the way down.
Anyone ever ridden trails this steep ?
Now wondering if there are any saddles with a bit of width and padding right on the rear edge ?‍

 

[Zimmerframe]

On Saturday I rode down some longish crazy steep trails that had me sitting on the back tail edge of the saddle, literally.
Now when I say crazy steep, I’m talking, almost like a cliff in places at around 80 degrees but mostly around 70degrees. It was a loamy surface with a lot of small trees and gradual turns. I wish I was exaggerating at the steepness of this trail named “Parachure” but it was scarey steep. I don’t usually give two shits, but I was crapping myself all the way down.
Anyone ever ridden trails this steep ?
Now wondering if there are any saddles with a bit of width and padding right on the rear edge ?‍

Sounds more like you need one with a good gap down the middle....

 

[Gary]

I guess you mean short super steep almost vert sections interspersed with loamy turns ? (rather than a sustainably 70-80deg descent)
Either way, riding down super steep terrain you shouldn't be resting your arse, pelvis, knackers or todger on your saddle at all.
A narower saddle you can get off the back of and hover above using your inner thighs on the sides (for more control) is what you need

 

[Doomanic]

I often ride steeps but I'm never sat down for it. The saddle is dropped out of the way and my weight is over the back.

 

[outerlimits]

Sounds more like you need one with a good gap down the middle....

I find placing one either side more comfortable and less dangerous. You don’t want a tangle to get you hung up when you have crash. ?

 

[outerlimits]

I guess you mean short super steep almost vert sections interspersed with loamy turns ? (rather than a sustainably 70-80deg descent)
Either way, riding down super steep terrain you shouldn't be resting your arse, pelvis, knackers or todger on your saddle at all.
A narower saddle you can get off the back of and hover above using your inner thighs on the sides (for more control) is what you need

I found it hard to not perch on some sections on the way down, as my quads were burning. The trail was around 900m with a section in the centre around 700m that was crazy steep. Runs of around 100m at 70 degrees followed by 80deg 3m drop backing off to around 60deg for a few meters before dropping again at 70deg for 100-150m, then basically repeating all the way down. I really thought I was going to die. It’s an insane decent but you are not going very fast at all because of the trees so close. Mate said, you’ll love this, but dial on a few clicks of low speed compression on your forks and follow the rut. He recommended 4 clicks, but I stuck with 3. He was on his downhill bike, and I was trembling s so much by the bottom I did not think to ask him his technique.

I like the idea of clenching the sides of the saddle with the inner thighs. That probs work better, thanks for the tip @Gary

I just guess it was a matter of survival and I did. Can’t wait to try it again, now I know what I’m up for. The blind run was intense and insane.

Btw... I was on my 2018 Levo ?‍

 

[CjP]

Was that you at Rampage?

I don’t know how your sitting on a seat at those angles. Your balls must be pretty big to drop the centre of gravity as I would be over the bars if I were sitting on a seat on those kind of angles.
Is your seat dropper down when your doing that or still up?

 

[Gary]

You need a new protractor

and I didn't say clenching anything i said use the sides of the saddle to control the bike... the only time you clench it should be when you throw a suicide no hander

 

[outerlimits]

Was that you at Rampage?

I don’t know how your sitting on a seat at those angles. Your balls must be pretty big to drop the centre of gravity as I would be over the bars if I were sitting on a seat on those kind of angles.
Is your seat dropper down when your doing that or still up?

Dropper slammed down, tackle basically swinging a top the seat and ass planted into the rear knife edge of the saddle, not on top of it in any way.
It looked to be a motor bike up track that had only been done once or twice. Just a bit of a rut carved straight up the hill. I guess he did not make it up as the first 200m was steep single trail carved in by my mate to link up to it. He’s clinically mad, I’m sure.

 

[Gary]

Dude. it's honestly not that steep a descent if it's a motorcycle uphill.

 

[outerlimits]

You need a new protractor

and I didn't say clenching anything i said use the sides of the saddle to control the bike... the only time you clench it should be when you throw a suicide no hander

Ok, but it really was that steep.
There was an element of suicide so clenching at times could be forgiven.
I’ll take my phone protractor out and try find some real angles. But I think my guess is pretty accurate.

 

[CjP]

Ah ok I see now. Was gonna day your a madman with the seat up.
I usually just scrap my nuts on the back tire when doing those kind of descents. Done just right it adds to the fun.
Done wrong not so much.

 

[outerlimits]

Dude. it's honestly not that steep a descent if it's a motorcycle uphill.

Not quite sure if it was or not, just could not work out how such a rut got there. I’m guessing he was pushing and throttling in some sections.

 

[Gary]

either way what you're riding is NOT this

Runs of around 100m at 70 degrees followed by 80deg 3m drop backing off to around 60deg for a few meters before dropping again at 70deg for 100-150m

m'kay?

 

[outerlimits]

either way what you're riding is NOT this

m'kay?

Wow, you are so right Gary I don’t ride a protractor, I ride a bike. Thanks for pointing that out.
Yeah so like I was saying, and now looking at this protractor as a guide. I’d estimate the grade to be 7-8 degrees maybe even 9 degrees in some places. Does that make you feel better ?

So @Gary, what do you estimate the grade to be ? And be realistic in your answer, as I really am interested in your valued opinion, jokes and sarcasm aside.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

I used to ride in a place called Oropi yonks ago... probably coming up 20 years now. A lot of unauthorised "grooming" was happening in the area at the time and the trails change almost every week. A mate of mine took me to this secret near vertical drop - horizontal to vertical to horizontal, at a guess a little over two storeys high looking at it from down below. About two thirds down from the square-edged top lip, the path had a transition slope at the bottom, kinda like the shape of a quarter pipe to break your fall - so that you didn't snap your face and forks in half. The trees at the bottom had old mattresses tried to them just in case. There's really no steering as you free-fall down. I think it was named the Nah-nah Drop. It was one of those features that didn't look bad enough if you stared at it long enough, until you're slowly coasting towards the entry ledge and then realise you've made a big mistake. You literally can't see where you're going. If you line your bike wrong, you're gonna hit a tree. You might be able to steer at the bottom, kinda - but braking is not gonna stop you. You're about standing still at the top when you tip your front wheel over, and then you're terminal velocity in a blink of an eye. There's no track flow into this, no real run-up... just a queue of riders waiting to throw themselves over.

I've done steep-ish drops before, so I know what I'm supposed to do when I got talked into attempting it. If your rear tyre isn't scraping your crotch, you're not back far enough. Fully lowered saddle in front of your belly. As soon as your front tyre hits the bottom it's a sudden thump and you better be prepared to push hard or its OTB. But then you have to immediately pull hard and heave your body forward, or the bike will shoot-up into the air from underneath and leave you and your butt sweeping the ground. I got it done without incident... only just!

Over time, the top lip eroded so it drops a bit so you can see where you're going before you commit, and all the soil that fell off from that made the slope below higher and less severe. But I vowed never to return to try it again. I've lost my nerve.

That was a joke compared to what those rampage guys are doing these days - they are extremely skilled and just as equally insane!

 

[HORSPWR]

On Saturday I rode down some longish crazy steep trails that had me sitting on the back tail edge of the saddle, literally.
Now when I say crazy steep, I’m talking, almost like a cliff in places at around 80 degrees but mostly around 70degrees. It was a loamy surface with a lot of small trees and gradual turns. I wish I was exaggerating at the steepness of this trail named “Parachure” but it was scarey steep. I don’t usually give two shits, but I was crapping myself all the way down.
Anyone ever ridden trails this steep ?
Now wondering if there are any saddles with a bit of width and padding right on the rear edge ?‍

I've fitted one of these and it is great for the steep stuff but only uphill, downhill I drop my seat and use my inner thighs just above my knees to guide the bike on the sides of the seat, it's also great on the longer rides, I don't notice my seat anymore.

https://www.eightyonespices.com.au/product-page/sqlab-611-ergowave-s-tube-saddle

 

[Gary]

@outerlimits
road/trail/path grades generally aren't measured in degrees but measured in % Where a 10% grade would mean the path rises one meter in every ten moving forwards
measuring road/trail/path slope on degrees is far less common

I've no way of knowing what grade or angle the slopes you've been riding are. But I do know it's incredibly unlilkely you rode even a constant 60deg slope of any great sustainable distance slowly on a loamy surface.
Why?
Firstly because you would struggle to stop a pushbike accelerating on a 60deg slope when the ground surface is loose soil (loam).
and secondly because the riding technique you've describe yourself using sounds quite frankly attrocious.

 

[outerlimits]

Wow, you are so right Gary I don’t ride a protractor, I ride a bike. Thanks for pointing that out.
Yeah so like I was saying, and now looking at this protractor as a guide. I’d estimate the grade to be 7-8 degrees maybe even 9 degrees in some places. Does that make you feel better ?

@outerlimits
road/trail/path grades generally aren't measured in degrees but measured in % Where a 10% grade would mean the path rises one meter in every ten moving forwards
measuring road/trail/path slope on degrees is far less common

I've no way of knowing what grade or angle the slopes you've been riding are. But I do know it's incredibly unlilkely you rode even a constant 60deg slope of any great sustainable distance slowly on a loamy surface.
Why?
Firstly because you would struggle to stop a pushbike accelerating on a 60deg slope when the ground surface is loose soil (loam).
and secondly because the riding technique you've describe yourself using sounds quite frankly attrocious.

Fair call tho I’m going to stick to a sustained 50-60deg, because as you say that’s probs the limit but there were drops of about 2 bike lengths at least 80deg in amoungsts it.
Riding style was just hang on and hope for the best really. It was propper steep tho, and really felt like 70-80 deg. But for arguments sake, I’ll stick to 50-60deg of sustained decent, as I really feel it was on the limit of what bike and or rider could do.

 

[HORSPWR]

@outerlimits
road/trail/path grades generally aren't measured in degrees but measured in % Where a 10% grade would mean the path rises one meter in every ten moving forwards
measuring road/trail/path slope on degrees is far less common

I've no way of knowing what grade or angle the slopes you've been riding are. But I do know it's incredibly unlilkely you rode even a constant 60deg slope of any great sustainable distance slowly on a loamy surface.
Why?
Firstly because you would struggle to stop a pushbike accelerating on a 60deg slope when the ground surface is loose soil (loam).
and secondly because the riding technique you've describe yourself using sounds quite frankly attrocious.

You forgot to put some winks in your belittling reply. I'm sure you have ridden 90º slopes while doing suicide no handers though

 

[outerlimits]

You forgot to put some winks in your belittling reply. I'm sure you have ridden 90º slopes while doing suicide no handers though

???
It was inverted backflip no handers I’ll have you know???

 

[CjP]

I’d have to agree with Gary on this one (?) 60degrees is quite steep man. Above that your basically free falling

 

[CjP]

Back in the day when I used to do helicopter drops even that was like 80 degrees.
Lol jokes the closest I’ve come to helicopter drops is dropping my bike onto helicopter tape.

 

[outerlimits]

I’d have to agree with Gary on this one (?) 60degrees is quite steep man. Above that your basically free falling

Fair call, it was basically free falling and I had little control.

 

[CjP]

Awesome!
If that’s the case then, I don’t know why your asking about seats though. At that point wouldn’t an airbag be more appropriate?

 

[Gary]

Riding style was just hang on and hope for the best really.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say gradient was still probably quite a bit less steep than your estimating. Not having a clue how to position yourself or weight the bike combined with "hang on and hope" just doesn't work on sustained properly steep technical terrain. 900m is a hell of a long descent and the crazy steepness you're saying it was you simply wouldn't have made it down in one piece. nevermind while humping the back of your saddle.

But it's ok. You clearly rode a trail you deemed to be a really really steep trail and asked for advice on a saddle. I've given that advice and hope you take it rather than buy some massive daft padded saddle and go out trying to ride technical terrain sitting on the thing.

 

[Pdoz]

Ok, maybe we're missing something here? Maybe it really was 80 degrees, he had the parachute open and is honestly asking what seat is appropriate for stopping descent defecation?

Back in the carbon fibre or perhaps say no mess this has already been answered - remove the seat, if you're still struggling then plug the hole by activating the drop her post.Use a set of 35 mm carbon bars if that doesn't work - great for the vibes.

 

[outerlimits]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say gradient was still probably quite a bit less steep than your estimating. Not having a clue how to position yourself or weight the bike combined with "hang on and hope" just doesn't work on sustained properly steep technical terrain. 900m is a hell of a long descent and the crazy steepness you're saying it was you simply wouldn't have made it down in one piece. nevermind while humping the back of your saddle.

But it's ok. You clearly rode a trail you deemed to be a really really steep trail and asked for advice on a saddle. I've given that advice and hope you take it rather than buy some massive daft padded saddle and go out trying to ride technical terrain sitting on the thing.

Yeah
So occasionally gripping the seat with the inner thighs to steady the bike for a split second would be ok then ? And I’m talking a slow walking speed decent, nothing faster than fast walking pace.

I think I found while descending that my ass was hitting the rear edge of the saddle. Kind of split second before an over the bars moment. I guess I should of kept it under more control using my inner thighs before it got to tis point.
Forgetting the numbers, we’ll just call it crazy steep ?‍ Yeah ?

 

[HORSPWR]

Yeah
So occasionally gripping the seat with the inner thighs to steady the bike for a split second would be ok then ? And I’m talking a slow walking speed decent, nothing faster than fast walking pace.

I think I found while descending that my ass was hitting the rear edge of the saddle. Kind of split second before an over the bars moment. I guess I should of kept it under more control using my inner thighs before it got to tis point.
Forgetting the numbers, we’ll just call it crazy steep ?‍ Yeah ?

Yep, with the seat dropped out of the way and when you get your arse back your legs are kind of in the same position as a jockey on a horse, then you can use the inside of your thighs just above your knee joints to touch the sides of the saddle for a bit of control but to also monitor your position on the bike.

 

[outerlimits]

Yep, with the seat dropped out of the way and when you get your arse back your legs are kind of in the same position as a jockey on a horse, then you can use the inside of your thighs just above your knee joints to touch the sides of the saddle for a bit of control but to also monitor your position on the bike.

Yep, thanks, I’ll give it a go. I think I was having way too many oh crap moments at the time.
Was just talking to my mate and he said according to his calculations it’s “Fecken Steep” and went on to say it drops about 100m of elevation over the 800m trail. Now I don’t know how accurate or true this is or how he got his data ( he uses a few different apps at different times) but I agree with him it’s fecken steep.