Crank snapped my axle spindle?

[andythebikeguy]

Went out for a ride ahead of a weeks riding in Wales today. Plan was to ride over Nibthwaite, do a few trails in Grizedale and then finish with Parkamoor. One climb and fortunately not to much decent the other side in, I popped over a small rock and as I landed my crank came clean off. On closer inspection the spindle had cracked right along the line where the inner crank bolt lies. Hiked back up and then rolled the descent.

Spoke to Sigma (who I purchased it from) and to their credit, while they can’t fix it before the weekend for me to take away, they are working hard to sort me a rental and they’ve been really helpful.

I hadn’t seen the update regarding the torque settings but the preload cap was on fully tight as were the retention bolts so not sure it would have made a difference. I’m a bit skeptical about the E13 cranks so depending on what happens I’ll push for an upgrade on those.

 

[KuRi]

Wow! How is that fixed??? Motor replacement or can the spindle just be replaced?

 

[andythebikeguy]

Wow! How is that fixed??? Motor replacement or can the spindle just be replaced?

Motor replacement. Shimano may be able to repalce the spindle but Sigma wouldn't do it them selves. Likely they'll ship me a new motor hopefully.

 

[KuRi]

Yes, we hope so! Good Luck mate!

 

[jka]

Wow! That might be one more reason to remove the inner rubber spacer to get more bite on the spindle. I'm doing that tonight. I checked the torque on the cap and the pinch bolts, but didn't take it off to remove the spacer and locktite it.

 

[KuRi]

I checked the torque and it was correct, then I removed the cap and it had already loctite on it. I cleaned everything and reinstalled the cranks with new caps. However I did not remove the rubber spacer because to me the cranks are too close to the frame already but now I am thinking of doing it.

 

[Zimmerframe]

@e*thirteen Components FYI.

 

[Cb750stu]

I know e-thirteen have been known to have issues with their crank bolts coming loose (I have had no issues) but isn't that a part of the Shimano motor that's sheared of , theres obviously been a weak point somewhere and the splines were it , probably happened in the manufacturing process maybe a rogue part that slipped through the net when tested , could have been over torqued by mistake etc etc loads of different scenarios tbh ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

I wonder if the crank arm was slowly sliding off, then with the impact/landing it was attached just enough to snap off the spindle end.

I've almost done the same once before on an e8000 due to mechanical incompetence on my part, but fortunately noticed just before I did anything extreme !

 

[Cb750stu]

I wonder if the crank arm was slowly sliding off, then with the impact/landing it was attached just enough to snap off the spindle end.

I've almost done the same once before on an e8000 due to mechanical incompetence on my part, but fortunately noticed just before I did anything extreme !

Yeah possibly ? I don't know much let alone seen the Shimano system is it the same way the cranks are fitted on the Orbea Wild FS with the extraction bolt in the centre of the splines ??
I can't see that the weight of the rider / bike / landing would do that but Im most likely wrong ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Yeah possibly ? I don't know much let alone seen the Shimano system is it the same way the cranks are fitted on the Orbea Wild FS with the extraction bolt in the centre of the splines ??
I can't see that the weight of the rider / bike / landing would do that but Im most likely wrong ?

The Shimano system's pretty different. You slide them on then screw in a plastic retainer bolt/screw into the sprindle. Then tighten the "clamps".

There have been problems with the correct tightness identified before :

Orbea Rise Owners - Please Read

I wanted to recommend that all Rise owners check the caps and crank arm bolts on their crank arms. My non drive side crank arm fell off mid ride. The cap had fallen off (and is lost forever). I would recommend reinstalling them with threadlocker. Miraculously I had a spare at home, but it...

www.emtbforums.com

Which links back to an earlier thread with info from e*thirteen on correcting it :

Cranks for EP8 motor

Hi all, I recently had my E*13 crank arm fail on me and it needs to be replaced. My first thought was to get a Shimano one, but my local bike shop said they were on back order until late August. I have since reached out to E*13 and Commencal to see if they can be of any help, but not getting...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[andythebikeguy]

Orbea have issued a recall but unfortunately don't seem to have told all the relevant departments in bike stores. Their recall email went into my junk last week, which I obviously didn't see. However just over two weeks ago, I did do a quick check over of all the bolts on the bike and loosened the pinch bolts, tightened the retaining bolt and then re-tightened the pinch bolts.

They're now advising you remove the rubber spacer to stop giving false torque readings which could have happened. Bit bummed that I actually did some preventative maintenance and then shortly after this happened.

 

[Cb750stu]

The Shimano system's pretty different. You slide them on then screw in a plastic retainer bolt/screw into the sprindle. Then tighten the "clamps".

View attachment 58745

There have been problems with the correct tightness identified before :

Orbea Rise Owners - Please Read

I wanted to recommend that all Rise owners check the caps and crank arm bolts on their crank arms. My non drive side crank arm fell off mid ride. The cap had fallen off (and is lost forever). I would recommend reinstalling them with threadlocker. Miraculously I had a spare at home, but it...

www.emtbforums.com

Which links back to an earlier thread with info from e*thirteen on correcting it :

Cranks for EP8 motor

Hi all, I recently had my E*13 crank arm fail on me and it needs to be replaced. My first thought was to get a Shimano one, but my local bike shop said they were on back order until late August. I have since reached out to E*13 and Commencal to see if they can be of any help, but not getting...

www.emtbforums.com

Ah ok I see it's just the normal way of installing Shimano cranks ?

 

[b33k34]

Ah ok I see it's just the normal way of installing Shimano cranks ?

and it's a rock solid interface - I've never heard of a shimano crank failing there (and the axle on the motor is presumably being made to the same sort of specs as on their cranks). The whole point of the interface is that you're NOT relying on the bolt in the end of the axle (which is normally just hand tight to load the bearings) but on the pinch bolts.

it's an odd place for this to fail - I've seen someone run a shimano crank loose and destroy the splines, but never snap one like that

 

[Zimmerframe]

There was an e8000 with a similar failure on here last year (can't find the thread or remember the wording used), which was from a crank which wasn't tightened correctly.

Could just be a really unlucky break, sounds like the shop's straight on it so that's pretty cool, hopefully the OP will be up and running again ASAP.

 

[jka]

It's hard to say what actually caused the failure.
Manufacturing defect of the spindle.
Pinch bolts not torqued to the correct specs and allowing the crank to partially slide off.
Inside pinch bolt loose and allowing the crank to flex on the spindle slightly.
Who knows. I just hope they get it fixed quickly and this doesn't happen to anyone else. I did the recommended removal of the inner seal, applied Loctite and torqued properly preload caps and all pinch bolts. I feel totally safe now....well, at least I feel like I've done all I can. Here's the link for the actual tech update.

TSB #156 - e*spec Shimano™ alloy crank tech update

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN #156.2 e*spec Shimano™ alloy crank tech update Product(s) included: e*thirteen e*spec Shimano EP8 alloy cranks. Abstract e*spec Shimano EP8/EP800 alloy cranks were dev...

support.ethirteen.com

 

[RickBullotta]

It's hard to say what actually caused the failure.
Manufacturing defect of the spindle.
Pinch bolts not torqued to the correct specs and allowing the crank to partially slide off.
Inside pinch bolt loose and allowing the crank to flex on the spindle slightly.
Who knows. I just hope they get it fixed quickly and this doesn't happen to anyone else. I did the recommended removal of the inner seal, applied Loctite and torqued properly preload caps and all pinch bolts. I feel totally safe now....well, at least I feel like I've done all I can. Here's the link for the actual tech update.

TSB #156 - e*spec Shimano™ alloy crank tech update

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN #156.2 e*spec Shimano™ alloy crank tech update Product(s) included: e*thirteen e*spec Shimano EP8 alloy cranks. Abstract e*spec Shimano EP8/EP800 alloy cranks were dev...

support.ethirteen.com

Note that this issue exists with the e*thirteen carbon crank arms as well.

Also, if people took the preload cap off to check for threadlocker, they hopefully put new fresh threadlocker on it before reinstalling!

 

[e*thirteen Components]

@andythebikeguy - Sorry to see that you've had an issue. I just sent you a DM so we can get some additional info from you incase your crank arm needs replacing.

 

[kimochi]

Same thing happened to me today @e*thirteen Components I did file a claim, would be nice to be able to ride this weekend.

 

[jka]

Same thing happened to me today @e*thirteen Components I did file a claim, would be nice to be able to ride this weekend.

Just curious, had you done the service referenced above with removing the spacers and torquing to the popper specs? It would be important to know if this is happening after the recommended service or only to those that hadn't done it yet.

 

[kimochi]

Oops. I have to clarify my axle didn't snap - my non-drive side crank arm fell off while riding. I should have been more aware that this is happening but too busy to ride than to read forums!

 

[e*thirteen Components]

Hi folks,
From what we have seen thus far, the loosening issue covered by our TSB is distinct from the spindle failure issue. All parties involved are investigating these failures collaboratively but to say the crank is causing the spindle failure at this point is unlikely and premature. Currently our cranks are passing all testing standards without issue (ISO, EN, DIN).

Customers experiencing issues should file warranty claims with Shimano for the engine and an additional claim with us to have the crankset replaced.

Thanks for your patience as we look further into if our cranks are playing a role in these spindle failures.

 

[andythebikeguy]

Hi folks,
From what we have seen thus far, the loosening issue covered by our TSB is distinct from the spindle failure issue. All parties involved are investigating these failures collaboratively but to say the crank is causing the spindle failure at this point is unlikely and premature. Currently our cranks are passing all testing standards without issue (ISO, EN, DIN).

Customers experiencing issues should file warranty claims with Shimano for the engine and an additional claim with us to have the crankset replaced.

Thanks for your patience as we look further into if our cranks are playing a role in these spindle failures.

Would you be able to tell us how many spindle failures have been reported to you on motors with your cranks on?

 

[jka]

Hi folks,
From what we have seen thus far, the loosening issue covered by our TSB is distinct from the spindle failure issue. All parties involved are investigating these failures collaboratively but to say the crank is causing the spindle failure at this point is unlikely and premature. Currently our cranks are passing all testing standards without issue (ISO, EN, DIN).

Customers experiencing issues should file warranty claims with Shimano for the engine and an additional claim with us to have the crankset replaced.

Thanks for your patience as we look further into if our cranks are playing a role in these spindle failures.

I agree. I think that if the crank is torqued properly with the spacers removed that there is little reason to think that the crank is causing spindle failure. It seems to have the same purchase on the spindle as any other crank and therefor is unlikely (but not impossible) to be related to the spindle fracture.
I too would like to know if there are any other cases of spindle breakage with these or any other cranks on EP8 motors from any bike manufacturer, but I don't know how to get that info.
I don't think that I've seen any reports of any failure at all AFTER the recommended service was performed properly.
Has anyone had any crank problems (lost preload caps, crank arms falling off, spindle breakage) AFTER performing the service update?
Please let us know.

 

[Edmu]

Orbea have issued a recall but unfortunately don't seem to have told all the relevant departments in bike stores. Their recall email went into my junk last week, which I obviously didn't see. However just over two weeks ago, I did do a quick check over of all the bolts on the bike and loosened the pinch bolts, tightened the retaining bolt and then re-tightened the pinch bolts.

They're now advising you remove the rubber spacer to stop giving false torque readings which could have happened. Bit bummed that I actually did some preventative maintenance and then shortly after this happened.

Can you please inform me where may I see the Orbea recall? Or send me a copy ([email protected])?

 

[Funks]

It's hard to say what actually caused the failure.

It's shit design on HollowTech II. That spindle has a hole in it for the useless locating tab where stress cracks can start. The should have made this spindle thicker and changed the spline type.

 

[Funks]

and it's a rock solid interface - I've never heard of a shimano crank failing there (and the axle on the motor is presumably being made to the same sort of specs as on their cranks).

Cranks fall off Hollow-Tech II spindles all the time, a lot of people aren't on the forums and just get their local bike shops to deal with it. It requires that those two pinch bolts are correctly torqued and tight and checked all the time. Lots of people don't have torque wrenches and they think gud-n-tite works (which leads to stretched threads on crank arms and loss of clamping force). Add pedal strikes in there from time to time which stresses this interface, and no wonder they fall off over time.

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/12spd-shimano-deore-crank-arm-falls-off.1176143/

Sadly OP - you ain't gonna be riding your bike a while as those motors can't be serviced and will have to be replace by Shimano. Really kinda stupid given it's relatively straightforward to replace the spindle on the E8000's, replacement parts ain't available.

Shimano needs to rethink this consumable throw and thrash strategy.

 

[beholdtheflesh]

@andythebikeguy exactly which model crank did you have (carbon or aluminum), and when was your bike manufactured?

I have a 2022 model Rise H15 with the aluminum cranks stock, and in the other thread about cranks, somebody posted that Orbea had changed their assembly procedure to avoid issues. Mostly need to know if I should be concerned with my bike specifically.

 

[Alex Ebiker]

Went out for a ride ahead of a weeks riding in Wales today. Plan was to ride over Nibthwaite, do a few trails in Grizedale and then finish with Parkamoor. One climb and fortunately not to much decent the other side in, I popped over a small rock and as I landed my crank came clean off. On closer inspection the spindle had cracked right along the line where the inner crank bolt lies. Hiked back up and then rolled the descent.

Spoke to Sigma (who I purchased it from) and to their credit, while they can’t fix it before the weekend for me to take away, they are working hard to sort me a rental and they’ve been really helpful.

I hadn’t seen the update regarding the torque settings but the preload cap was on fully tight as were the retention bolts so not sure it would have made a difference. I’m a bit skeptical about the E13 cranks so depending on what happens I’ll push for an upgrade on those.

View attachment 58716

What model rise did this happen on?.