Convince me of this tubeless idea

[Bob Orbea Rise]

So the main problem I have with tubeless is the mess.

The second problem I have is the insert making changes a pain

These are problems because, I change tyres a fair bit. Road tyres for road trips and some summer (schwalbe marathon they have that Kevlar (?) insert under the tread )

Winter E mazza 2.6 front and back for the clay and mud.

In between probably go back to the stock tyres or similar.

So that’s three tyres changes x2 a year minimum depending on road rides. Plus tubeless set ups do seem to go flat occasionally anyway.

I see a benefit of tubeless like running low pressures and the insert means you can run flat and stop pinch flats

But I run sealant in my tubes (not stans that burger source looking stuff) and that seems to seal ok. The only thing missing is the run flat insert element. Which I don’t miss really as intend to run higher pressures for less rolling resistance for battey life ( Orbea rise)

That’s kind of it really. What have i
missed ?

 

[jimbob]

I do exactly the same. Think it's slime I use with Dunlop tubes as they have removable valve cores.

For me it's the best of both worlds.

 

[Hardtail]

Hi Bob, tubeless doesn’t require an insert such as cushcore, that is only for heavy DH use where impacts are expected.
Once your rim is set up tubeless the rest is not really different to changing tyres with a tube.
Get an Air Shot inflator and the process is easy.
The benefits are great, apart from self sealing punctures, the tubeless wheel is also lighter and therefore roll faster, the Schwalbe Marathon is a heavy tyre for road use.
I run a 2.1 Thunder Burt in Ground casing as my commuting tyre, it is very light and fast rolling, set up tubeless with some ‘bacon strips’ at the ready in case the sealant can’t do its job. I have never been stranded due to a flat.
When you swap to a different tyre just pour out the old sealant into the new tyre.

 

[beanzz]

Hi Bob, tubeless doesn’t require an insert such as cushcore, that is only for heavy DH use where impacts are expected.
Once your rim is set up tubeless the rest is not really different to changing tyres with a tube.
Get an Air Shot inflator and the process is easy.
The benefits are great, apart from self sealing punctures, the tubeless wheel is also lighter and therefore roll faster, the Schwalbe Marathon is a heavy tyre for road use.
I run a 2.1 Thunder Burt in Ground casing as my commuting tyre, it is very light and fast rolling, set up tubeless with some ‘bacon strips’ at the ready in case the sealant can’t do its job. I have never been stranded due to a flat.
When you swap to a different tyre just pour out the old sealant into the new tyre.

I've found cushcore helps a lot if you have a very heavy bike even if you don't do heavy riding

 

[Shjay]

2 sets of wheels better! One running summer tyres one winter

 

[beanzz]

2 sets of wheels better! One running summer tyres one winter

Can be out of budget and just not worth it for a lot of people

 

[irie]

Can be out of budget and just not worth it for a lot of people

For a lot of people like me even if it is within budget an eMTB is a tool and less is more.

 

[maynard]

I've found cushcore helps a lot if you have a very heavy bike even if you don't do heavy riding

Too low pressure causes problems combined with hitting objects with out lifting ur weight.. the only time have damaged tryes has been poor riding by me .

 

[beanzz]

Too low pressure causes problems combined with hitting objects with out lifting ur weight.. the only time have damaged tryes has been poor riding by me .

I haven't gotten a flat in my tires for years but I'll still take inserts cos I find the extra weight doesn't really matter for me and the improvement for Carcass roll really helps

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

2 sets of wheels better! One running summer tyres one winter

I hear this a lot. So say £350 on new wheels, discs? New cassette? Would the discs be the same size as stock or an upgrade ? If an upgrade that’s 4 discs or you’re moving callipers about as well. Or you swap the cassette and discs over. All easy to do, fair enough but….

It’s not cheaper or easier than lobbing some goop in your tubes and swapping tyres. Is it!

That’s a flippant answer sorry, but on the other hand, most people do end up with another set of wheels it seems. ….why is that? We pay North of 4K for a bike. It might be an e bike it might not , yet it comes with crap wheels. Certainly entry level stuff does. So we buy wheel sets. Then we buy brake sets. Suspension as a set I suppose. Before we know it if we buy a frame we have two bikes.

Why stop there with wheels then. Why not say buy another bike purely for a tyre change.

Bloody daft idea. Don’t get me wrong of you’re a downhiller fine you need a sealing system to get you down. But let’s face it we’re not are we.

Cheapest easiest least messy option for us. Burger source in your tubes. Job done. Cush core aside of course

 

[beanzz]

New cassette

Why would you need a new cassette

 

[Shjay]

I hear this a lot. So say £350 on new wheels, discs? New cassette? Would the discs be the same size as stock or an upgrade ? If an upgrade that’s 4 discs or you’re moving callipers about as well. Or you swap the cassette and discs over. All easy to do, fair enough but….

It’s not cheaper or easier than lobbing some goop in your tubes and swapping tyres. Is it!

That’s a flippant answer sorry, but on the other hand, most people do end up with another set of wheels it seems. ….why is that? We pay North of 4K for a bike. It might be an e bike it might not , yet it comes with crap wheels. Certainly entry level stuff does. So we buy wheel sets. Then we buy brake sets. Suspension as a set I suppose. Before we know it if we buy a frame we have two bikes.

Why stop there with wheels then. Why not say buy another bike purely for a tyre change.

Bloody daft idea. Don’t get me wrong of you’re a downhiller fine you need a sealing system to get you down. But let’s face it we’re not are we.

Cheapest easiest least messy option for us. Burger source in your tubes. Job done. Cush core aside of course

For me I have always bought bikes as frame only! So often have a few spares, I bought the M20 rise as I had all the parts bar the rear shock, I rebuilt the wheels as the rims are ok just crap hubs, so already had spare wheels then rebuilt original wheels with new hubs. I swap cassette over but have rotors but swap front rotor as it’s 220mm

 

[mike_kelly]

So the main problem I have with tubeless is the mess.

The second problem I have is the insert making changes a pain

These are problems because, I change tyres a fair bit. Road tyres for road trips and some summer (schwalbe marathon they have that Kevlar (?) insert under the tread )

Winter E mazza 2.6 front and back for the clay and mud.

In between probably go back to the stock tyres or similar.

So that’s three tyres changes x2 a year minimum depending on road rides. Plus tubeless set ups do seem to go flat occasionally anyway.

I see a benefit of tubeless like running low pressures and the insert means you can run flat and stop pinch flats

But I run sealant in my tubes (not stans that burger source looking stuff) and that seems to seal ok. The only thing missing is the run flat insert element. Which I don’t miss really as intend to run higher pressures for less rolling resistance for battey life ( Orbea rise)

That’s kind of it really. What have i
missed ?

I hate tubeless. I understand for someone who truely lives with thorns everywhere. But I have ridden 70days in Tucson Az without a flat. I don't like that tires have been changed to suite tubeless and can be a real pain to get on and off. I would never deal with the goop all over the place. My wife decided to try tubeless due to peer pressure. First thing the tape on the rim broke causing the tire to lose air. Then back to the shop and goop all over to floor to fix it. She next got a flat because the valve was leaking. Next a burp and the goo is dripping. No thanks.

Like you I like to change tires out. I use super light Tubolito tubes which are the same weight as a tubeless setup. I have never had a flat with them. And no mess no fuss.

In all fairness I talked to a mechanic at a local shop who rode the Arizona Trail, Mexico to Utah and after he pull his tire off ,at the end, had 50 punctures. So there are applications.

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

Yeah also heard tell of numerous thorns on removing a tyre from a tubeless set up. Not saying it does not work as you say. I just think there’s other ways

Burger source here;
WELDTITE Puncture Management Inner Tube Sealant - Puncture Prevention for Inner Tubes - 250ml https://amzn.eu/d/3THv1Oy

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

For me I have always bought bikes as frame only! So often have a few spares, I bought the M20 rise as I had all the parts bar the rear shock, I rebuilt the wheels as the rims are ok just crap hubs, so already had spare wheels then rebuilt original wheels with new hubs. I swap cassette over but have rotors but swap front rotor as it’s 220mm

That’s how I used to do it too. Why buy twice as you say. But these days they don’t seem to sell a frame worth having unless it’s more £ than the cheapest complete bike in the range from what I’ve seen?

Usually end up with a choice set of components I like. E bikes being slightly different being motor specific but wheels drive train suspension cockpit sadle being specific taste, why buy a complete bike. ….other than manufacturers won’t make frames easy to buy of course (or do they and I’ve not been looking in the right places?)

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Mess really isn't an issue once you're used to it. I swapped my tyres onto new wheels at the weekend. The tyres came off with the sealant still in. Fitted to new wheels without soiling a drop.

The decided to give a Dissector a go instead of the DHR2 so pulled the tyre off, decanted sealant into new tyre and fitted to the wheel.

No mess, no fuss.

Tubeless is lighter and there's less rolling resistance. I know we're on assisted bikes so things like that don't matter quote so much but it all helps. Quicker acceleration and easier pedalling above the assistance threshold will make a difference.

 

[Paulquattro]

No mess No fuss until you take out a tyre on a piece of slate that wont repair itself sealant all over the frame and rims etc
Then trailside putting in a tube with all the tubeless mess to deal with
Tubeless is ok in general but when it isn't it really isn't

 

[Richywalker64]

Once you have your rims sealed when tubless changing tyres is easy, just a little messy and the cost of extra sealed
But if you don't get many punctures I'd say probably just stick with tubes
The only reason I went tubless is fixing punctures on the trail is much easier as you don't need to remove the wheel or even the tyre

 

[Bob88]

Hate tubeless, love tubes.

 

[James_C]

... tyres came off with the sealant still in. Fitted to new wheels without soiling a drop...

how is this possible?, every time I take a tyre off I have to completely remove all dried sealant from the bead to make it seal again. (specialized tyres)

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

how is this possible?, every time I take a tyre off I have to completely remove all dried sealant from the bead to make it seal again. (specialized tyres)

Yeah, was surprised as well.

I looked at the dried sealant on the bead and thought I'd end up having to remove it but they inflated fine and sealed straight away.

Well, had to leave a tube in over night to stick the tape to the rim but after that, no issues.

Maxis tyres by the way. Minion DHF and Dissector.

 

[Dax]

It depends where you ride. Go ride some rocky trails in wales, coed y brenin, Nant y arain, mach, you’ll soon get fed up with fixing pinch flats and will understand the need for tubeless. Ride somewhere loamy, you’ll probably never have an issue with tubes. Personally fixing multiple flats/day in wales/alps/Canada gets me down, so I run tubeless.

 

[KnollyBro]

So the main problem I have with tubeless is the mess.

The second problem I have is the insert making changes a pain

Bob, you obviously don't need to run tubeless tires and seem to get along fine with your current setup, for where you ride. If you want to run tubeless for the benefits listed, you will need to practice changing tires until you have less trouble and make less of a mess. It can be done, but only practice and a need are required. If it is any consolation, it is MUCH more difficult to get a tire, with an insert in it, OFF of a wheel, than it is to put it on. Happy trails!

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

It depends where you ride. Go ride some rocky trails in wales, coed y brenin, Nant y arain, mach, you’ll soon get fed up with fixing pinch flats and will understand the need for tubeless. Ride somewhere loamy, you’ll probably never have an issue with tubes. Personally fixing multiple flats/day in wales/alps/Canada gets me down, so I run tubeless.

That I can see and understand. It’s the Cush core pinch flat element more than the foreign body through the tyre.

Zero need round here.

Locally yet to see a puncture that wasn’t a thorn.

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

Bob, you obviously don't need to run tubeless tires and seem to get along fine with your current setup, for where you ride. If you want to run tubeless for the benefits listed, you will need to practice changing tires until you have less trouble and make less of a mess. It can be done, but only practice and a need are required. If it is any consolation, it is MUCH more difficult to get a tire, with an insert in it, OFF of a wheel, than it is to put it on. Happy trails!

You ride rocky terrain ?

 

[Dax]

That I can see and understand. It’s the Cush core pinch flat element more than the foreign body through the tyre.

Zero need round here.

Locally yet to see a puncture that wasn’t a thorn.

I've never bothered with cush cores, I've I've only destroyed one rim which was definitely my fault, so don't really see the need to add the weight and hassle of cush cores.

 

[Dave_B]

2 sets of wheels better! One running summer tyres one winter

this ^

 

[Bob Orbea Rise]

this ^

No it’s not
As it needs another cassette and an other pair of discs. Swapping tyres with tubes is way quicker anyway and I have three sets of tyres as said. So three pairs of wheel 3 cassettes and 6 discs. Really? Why stop there, 3 bikes?

As it happens I do now have a spare set of wheels as the stock ones are chocolate, but that’s a whole other rant and I won’t be using those agsin

 

[beanzz]

cassette

This is really easy to do, it takes like 5 minutes at most. And brake rotors are like 100 quid at most for two.

But yes I still disagree with the two sets of weeks

 

[Dave_B]

it all comes down to practice I suppose. I can change my tubeless tyres in minutes and there is no need for any mess, mount and inflate them dry to get them seated, let the air out, inject some jizz and re inflate, simples.