Converting 29er and Butcher 2.6” tyres.

[junglie69]

Hi having a bit of a posting frenzy at the moment hope this is of use. Love the Levo however really wanted to stay on a 29er, as a taller rider and having ridden them for a number of years it’s just my preference. I managed to get my Levo at a bargain price so not complaining. I stumbled across this thread recently

Test: 29” Hillbilly and Butcher tyres on the Specialized Turbo Levo – why make the change? – eMTB-News.de

That and a set of 29 x 29mm a dealer was upgrading on a new Stumpjumper Carbon Comp and I was away.

I will admit haven’t been a fan of the 2.8” Butchers, too unpredictable in mud or loose over hard or crossing ruts, something to do with the gap between the outer and middle knobs? The recent offer from Specalized of buy one get the other half price and a return if not happy promise swayed me to try the 29 x 2.6”. A much better tyre IMHO, predictable breakaway much better in the mud and I can cross ruts with some confidence.

Has been mentioned on here before I’ll mention again just to annoy Specialized the 2.6” tyres measure up at 2.4” that’s on 29mm inner rims and at 30psi, not clever. I put them side to side there are some differences the main one is the side knobs are closer to the middle row and they roll better although that could be the 29er effect. Clearance at the front is fine, a little close at the rear but no closer that some production setups.

Have a look at the photos and make your own minds up.

 

[Topov]

Well you wont be fitting a rear hugger any time soon, let us al know how it rides

 

[Gary]

Butchers are basically specializeds "copy" of the Maxxis Minion. Also manufactured by CST so very similar in construction too.
Minions are one of my few go to ALL conditions tyre choices so I know their handling traits very very well.
The gap between the centre and outer tread is there for a very good reason. it's for cornering transition from upright to leant over and actually is designed to allow some drift. the problem with this is. if you are not a very compitent rider you probably won't have the best cornering techniques and that drift zone can get a less skilled rider into a lot of trouble.
Hope this explanation helps a little.

Also. A 2.4" tyre is far more useful in all conditions on a mtb than a 2.6" tyre is.
I've said this tons. and I know it get's certain people's backs up. but 2.8" tyres are actually terrible in many conditions and for many applications. I'd absolutely never choose one as an all conditions UK tyre.

Disclaimer: The above is just factual information and there's no need for anyone to take it personally because they bought into the whole plus tyre fad.

 

[Topov]

I agree with a lot you are saying, but I feel the sweet spot is actually the 2.6 tyre, now summer is here I will be experimenting myself with some on my Kenevo and see how my times are affected

 

[junglie69]

Thanks for the input, I will happily admit to an average skill set off road.

I bought into Levo, not particularly for the fat tire malarkey and after a couple of rides am more happy with the Butcher 2.4” or 2.6” as Specialized call them.

Funnily enough I took the rear mudhugger off because as you rightly say I can’t run it as was. I have chopped it up a little and have it mounted above the cross brace with some success, will post some photos when I can.

Initial impressions are it rides like a 29er, all be it a heavy one. I much prefer it to the 27.5 but then as I am mainly cross country with a few steep up and down gradients that suits me, horses for courses, I posted so anyone thinking of going that way would have a reference not trying to convert everyone to bigger wheels.

 

[Topov]

Junglie69 its always good to have input from everyone, infact I am sure that the Levo is/was sold in Europe as a 29er and 27.5 just never came over here for some reason

 

[Topov]

Found this that might interest you......... Test: 29” Hillbilly and Butcher tyres on the Specialized Turbo Levo – why make the change? – eMTB-News.de

 

[Kernow]

I would agree 2.8 is too fat sketchy ride etc , 2.4 is about the optimum on a normal enduro bike, usually with 3o mm rims , however I think an enduro ebike 2.5-2.6 is more suited , mainly due to the extra wieght , more air volume , you hit things harder and faster , especially climbing when the wieght is harder on the rear . Also on most enduro ebikes the rims tend to be a bit wider ie35mm , could be my opinion because Iam quite heavy though .

 

[junglie69]

Hi Topov yes you are right input from a variety of sources all helps develop the thread. When I was hunting down a new Levo I saw that you could get the Levo as a 29er ST in the rest of Europe, it was just to expensive. So now I have a long travel version which seems to work.

I think the link you kindly posted is the same as mine above. It was useful in seeing what I could get in the frame.

Kernow mentions 2.5-2.6” as an ideal for emtb and that’s what I was originally trying to achieve all be it with 30mm inner rims. Specialized unfortunately decided in their infinite wisdom to market a 2.3”ish tyre as 2.6”, I’ll try them and if I don’t like, I’ll try Minions.

 

[ccrdave]

I like minion dhr11 i have 2.8 x 27.5 front and back on 29mm lightweight spesh wheels, they measure up at 2.6

 

[caterhamnut]

Um, that is an interesting article re:29’er

After reading threads on here I changed my front tyre to a 2.6 Hillbilly, and my confidence in the front grip doubled. Muddy conditions here, and I felt the front 2.8 Butcher just floated, and wet grass was horrible....I can sit and see the extra corner ‘sharpness’ of the Hillbilly blocks cutting in and gripping, so works for me....

 

[caterhamnut]

Ok - can anyone recommend a ‘sensibly’ priced 29 wheel set suitable for our e-bikes? ‘Sensible’ enough to try the larger size out, without committing to top price/carbon etc etc?

 

[junglie69]

Hi re the affordable 29er wheels mine were a set off a Stumpjumper Carbon Comp 29er that was being upgraded from new so unused and a straight fit for less than £200. There are some deals out there. As for the Butcher 29 x 2.6 the bead was so tight on the rim they wouldn’t seal and couldn’t run without a tube so I returned then to Specialized, now running Minions.



And one more for Topov. After butchering a mudhugger (pun intended) I have been able to get it to fit on a 29er.

 

[outerlimits]

I am still running the standard 27.5x2.8 Butcher front and a Maxxis 27.5x2.8 minion DHR our back
I do not like the vagueness of the Butcher out front and it pings off the rocks and roots because of it’s width. It is also heavy and doughy to turn. I also don’t like the low bottom bracket hitting rocks ect. The Rear is perfect and is very well suited.
I would like to try a 29er up front only, but don’t know what width to run.
Any thoughts or a 27.5 plus rear and a 29er front ?
What width front 29er ?
Don’t want to upset the geometry, but if I can get it better, it would be great.

 

[junglie69]

I believe CCrdave has tried 29er front and 27.5 plus rear, he might be along to ask later or try the specialized Turbo Levo thread page 4 or 5 I think. I went 29er all round as my preference would have been one of the short travel 29ers available to Europe (that’s not us?). Here is a link to a German test of the ST 29er for reference:

Specialized Turbo Levo FSR ST Comp CE 29 im Test

You might have to view in Google chrome to translate.

 

[Kernow]

I am still running the standard 27.5x2.8 Butcher front and a Maxxis 27.5x2.8 minion DHR our back
I do not like the vagueness of the Butcher out front and it pings off the rocks and roots because of it’s width. It is also heavy and doughy to turn. I also don’t like the low bottom bracket hitting rocks ect. The Rear is perfect and is very well suited.
I would like to try a 29er up front only, but don’t know what width to run.
Any thoughts or a 27.5 plus rear and a 29er front ?
What width front 29er ?
Don’t want to upset the geometry, but if I can get it better, it would be great.

Would it be worth swapping your tyres front to rear , I dont know the butcher too well but I think you could have the grippiest tyre on the wrong end of the bike .

 

[ccrdave]

Yes i have tried mixing wheel sizes and admit to being a bit of a tyre geek
Im not sure if i like the wheel mix or not , 2.8 minion dhr2 on the back and a 29 2.5 maxxis shorty on the front it does raise the bb and slacken the head angle maybe too much gonna ride it some more but i think I will end up with the minion dhr front and back they are nice tyres and not too wide

 

[outerlimits]

Would it be worth swapping your tyres front to rear , I dont know the butcher too well but I think you could have the grippiest tyre on the wrong end of the bike .

The plan was to put a DHF up front, but I have noticed a ding in the rim. So now looking at the 29er option. The Butcher for my area is crap, but would be good in soft loam.

 

[outerlimits]

Yes i have tried mixing wheel sizes and admit to being a bit of a tyre geek
Im not sure if i like the wheel mix or not , 2.8 minion dhr2 on the back and a 29 2.5 maxxis shorty on the front it does raise the bb and slacken the head angle maybe too much gonna ride it some more but i think I will end up with the minion dhr front and back they are nice tyres and not too wide

I was thinking of a 29x 2.3 minion dhf up front with the current 27.5x2.8 DHR on the back.
The 29x 2.3 will be good for the diameter being a little taller but unsure if it would be too narrow.
Thoughts ?

 

[ccrdave]

Im not a fan of the minion fronts they are almost identical to butchers which i also dont like
I tried a 29x 2.3 minion rear and it was ok but for me it was a bit too narrow didnt give me much confidence and i lost the front end a couple of times
I have also put 29ers front and rear with 2.5 shortys and that was very good but bike was quite long and a bit tough on tight switchbacks but every where else it was good but bb was a bit high and i lost the stable feel i got with the 2.8 minions at 27.5

 

[Trininatx]

The 29" fell really great on the Levo, I went with the Santa Cruz Reserve 29er 30mm, DT Swiss hub with Butcher 2.6..I am in Austin Texas and it just rolls over almost anything. I am on the taller side as well (6'4") and am much more comfortable on 29" wheels...

 

[Pat2203]

Well I’m different to most I’m running 27.5 front spec hillbilly 2.6 and 27.5 eddy current 2.8 and they are amazing bags of grip front and rear and exceptional handling

 

[tabrat]

Butchers are basically specializeds "copy" of the Maxxis Minion. Also manufactured by CST so very similar in construction too.
Minions are one of my few go to ALL conditions tyre choices so I know their handling traits very very well.
The gap between the centre and outer tread is there for a very good reason. it's for cornering transition from upright to leant over and actually is designed to allow some drift. the problem with this is. if you are not a very compitent rider you probably won't have the best cornering techniques and that drift zone can get a less skilled rider into a lot of trouble.
Hope this explanation helps a little.

Also. A 2.4" tyre is far more useful in all conditions on a mtb than a 2.6" tyre is.
I've said this tons. and I know it get's certain people's backs up. but 2.8" tyres are actually terrible in many conditions and for many applications. I'd absolutely never choose one as an all conditions UK tyre.

Disclaimer: The above is just factual information and there's no need for anyone to take it personally because they bought into the whole plus tyre fad.

First, there is no way the Butchers compare to a Maxxis Minion or Assegai in handling if you are a larger rider and they will wash out as the side knobs roll over. Second, your statement about 2.4 is okay for the lighter rider but if you are a larger rider and want run lower pressures a 2.6 works great but you need the right combo. Third, Cush Core for ebikes is a wonderful adder.

 

[tabrat]

Well I’m different to most I’m running 27.5 front spec hillbilly 2.6 and 27.5 eddy current 2.8 and they are amazing bags of grip front and rear and exceptional handling

What you said is what matters. I am running a 2.6 EXO+ Assegai in front and 2.6 Eddy Current in rear since it is so stable and love the combo. I also added Cush Core for extra stability and flat protection and to be able to run lower pressures and it works great.

 

[tabrat]

Im not a fan of the minion fronts they are almost identical to butchers which i also dont like
I tried a 29x 2.3 minion rear and it was ok but for me it was a bit too narrow didnt give me much confidence and i lost the front end a couple of times
I have also put 29ers front and rear with 2.5 shortys and that was very good but bike was quite long and a bit tough on tight switchbacks but every where else it was good but bb was a bit high and i lost the stable feel i got with the 2.8 minions at 27.5

Have you tried the Maxxis Assegai? It is really a great from tire and I got it with the Maxterra compound for longer lasting and it still handles awesome. It was rated a 10 for cornering.

 

[Gary]

First, there is no way the Butchers compare to a Maxxis Minion or Assegai in handling if you are a larger rider and they will wash out as the side knobs roll over. Second, your statement about 2.4 is okay for the lighter rider but if you are a larger rider and want run lower pressures a 2.6 works great but you need the right combo. Third, Cush Core for ebikes is a wonderful adder.

You're talking pish on all 3 counts.
Butchers handle just fine under a skilled rider.
HEAVY riders shouldn't be running low pressures.
Butcher sideknobs only "roll over" if run at low enough pressures for the sidewall to fold. Ie. TOO LOW.
Cushcore was designed to allow DH racers to run slightly lower pressures and still give support to their tyres, to lock the bead in to the rim well and to protect rims from run ending damage due to the strikes lower pressures leaves you open to with the bonus of being able to keep rolling even with a flat. It wasn't designed for overweight clumsy Ebike riders.. But I do see why so many fit inserts.

 

[CA320]

First, there is no way the Butchers compare to a Maxxis Minion or Assegai in handling if you are a larger rider and they will wash out as the side knobs roll over. Second, your statement about 2.4 is okay for the lighter rider but if you are a larger rider and want run lower pressures a 2.6 works great but you need the right combo. Third, Cush Core for ebikes is a wonderful adder.

The 2.6 27.5 black diamond butchers are really good that were stock on my kenevo. I had been running an assegai 2.6 exo+ max terra on the front of my Levo for the last few months so I ordered a set right away for the kenevo. After waiting a while for the assegai’s to show up I started to realize that the black diamond casing is a completely different tyre to the older design butcher grid that came stock on my 2019 Levo.

I put the assegai 2.6 exo+ on front for a comparison and ended up going back to the blk diamond as it gave me more confidence on my local SoCal trails. The dampening of the blk diamond was better and the grip was level was very close.

The Older style paper thin butchers on my Levo were a different story. When I would get them to a pressure where I actually felt they would grip tyre would roll over when you pushed it hard in a corner.

 

[Mcharza]

The 2.6 27.5" Butcher Black diamond version has been amazing good on the rear of my Kenovo. Ridden all conditions this year. Front I like more Michelin Wild Enduro X-Gum

 

[CA320]

The 2.6 27.5" Butcher Black diamond version has been amazing good on the rear of my Kenovo. Ridden all conditions this year. Front I like more Michelin Wild Enduro X-Gum

I’m looking at trying the Michelin’s after hearing a lot of good feedback.

I have a Magic Mary DH on the front of the kenevo at the moment and it works well even in my dry conditions.
I have purchased 2 but can’t get myself to take off that blk diamond butcher from the rear yet. Thinking the Magic Mary might be a little draggy on the rear.

 

[Mcharza]

I’m looking at trying the Michelin’s after hearing a lot of good feedback.

I have a Magic Mary DH on the front of the kenevo at the moment and it works well even in my dry conditions.
I have purchased 2 but can’t get myself to take off that blk diamond butcher from the rear yet. Thinking the Magic Mary might be a little draggy on the rear.

If the MM is Addix soft, it also wears out quickly as a rear tire. Schwalbe has a new rear tire Big Betty, which is very promising

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