Considering changing my Orbea Wild

[carlbiker]

So I did my best to get the right bike for me, me being an enthusiastic type willing to literally ‘throw’ myself into things (I’ll not mention what) and instead of getting the higher specced Cube I
followed advice from various sources stating ‘but the geometry’ is way better on the Orbea xyz.....

What this translates to for a novice is something super aggressive on DH, way too fast but turns like a bloody battleship in the trails, it’s not me I’ve tried other bikes, they turn better (cube, voodoo).

Now maybe it’s the 27.5 wheels, maybe the poorer geometry actually suits a starter better, maybe less travel 140-150 would also help but I’m fairly sure my DH enduro 29/160 isn’t the bike Im going to pick up necessary skills on as fast as something else, if anything it’s just making life harder then it probably should be.

So what is that something else? I’m seeing levos with 150 travel but I think there still 29 inch wheels and I’m not so sure about 140 with 27.5 like the Cubes but that probably is a safer bet than the one Im on currently, basically Im
just after something more agile I’ve more control
over then being my Wilds bitch!

Appreciate any thoughts, I’ve a couple training courses coming up, ones labelled road to enduro!! (Not planning to race ofc just learn! Slowly!)

 

[Gary]

The bike is not what's holding you back Carl. Impatience is.
Instead of changing it get a normal bike to compliment the Ebike and it'll be a lot more nimble and you'll find it a lot easier to learn basic skills on.

 

[Mteam]

If you've ridden other ebikes and you prefer those then get the one you most prefer.

Or go and test ride loads more different bikes (quite hard right now) and buy the one you prefer.

Changing bikes will be expensive though.

the geometry is not hugely different between the orbea and something like a levo or cube, there are differences, but not massive.

You could put 27. 5 wheels on the orbea (or just try 27.5 on the back) and see how that changes things, bb would be way low (if you swapped both wheels) , but might help you come to some kind of conclusion about wheel size. Don't buy new wheels though, see if you can borrow some for a quick ride.

Agree with Gary though in general, it's not the bike. Whilst different bikes do have different handling/riding characteristics, no one bike (as long as its of a minimum standard - as all the bikes you have listed are) will hold you back, and unfortunately you cant buy skills or experience.

 

[R120]

I got some sympathy with you on this, some of the current crop of long travel 29r EMTBs are big old barges IMO - fine in the right terrain but can be a handful on more regular trails.

Never riden the Orbea but have seen one out in the wild, and it dwarfed my E-Sommet.

Agree with the others that improving your skills will help, and skills course are great things to do. It definitely takes time to adjust to how quickly some of these bikes pick up speed, and how to recalibrate your braking, cornering etc. When I first got my E-Sommet it took a while to adjust.

 

[thebarber]

Being an international super star, sex symbol and riding god ?‍?
I'd say "run what yer brung "
I reckon one bike doesn't fit all, but I've thought this with every bike I've got and changed numerous things just to make things better and thrown a shitload o' coin at stuff to be no better than before.
Tyres, stems, pedals, bars ..etc....oh! if only CrC sold balls.....
Enjoy what you've got, there's always something 'better ' around the corner, but there's always another corner .
I still look for the New Best thing but keep looking back at the Awld girl and think 'she's a keeper'
Mabe work on yersen is the answer.
P.S.
It's 1:45am , Motley cruel, Skid Row time.
Boris keeps giving me beer money & I refuse nowt.
Peace and Barber oot ?

 

[carlbiker]

Being an international super star, sex symbol and riding god ?‍?
I'd say "run what yer brung "
I reckon one bike doesn't fit all, but I've thought this with every bike I've got and changed numerous things just to make things better and thrown a shitload o' coin at stuff to be no better than before.
Tyres, stems, pedals, bars ..etc....oh! if only CrC sold balls.....
Enjoy what you've got, there's always something 'better ' around the corner, but there's always another corner .
I still look for the New Best thing but keep looking back at the Awld girl and think 'she's a keeper'
Mabe work on yersen is the answer.
P.S.
It's 1:45am , Motley cruel, Skid Row time.
Boris keeps giving me beer money & I refuse nowt.
Peace and Barber oot ?

Kind of I guess... ?

But I don’t recalI the part where I said I wanted to win DH Enduro races, how can this not be the bike? ?‍

it’s like never passing your driving test (or theory test lol) and then being told a drag car is the best car to go for (maybe they mention go faster stripes or something too, better wind to paint ratios or some stuff that doesn’t apply to my uses) but then you find out the steering wheel doesn’t turn as it should! I’ve a new stem and bars but it’s defo not as agile as others I’ve tried which really surprised me

 

[Zimmerframe]

Kind of I guess... ?

But I don’t recalI the part where I said I wanted to win DH Enduro races, how can this not be the bike? ?‍

it’s like never passing your driving test (or theory test lol) and then being told a drag car is the best car to go for (maybe they mention go faster stripes or something too, better wind to paint ratios or some stuff that doesn’t apply to my uses) but then you find out the steering wheel doesn’t turn as it should! I’ve a new stem and bars but it’s defo not as agile as others I’ve tried which really surprised me

I know you'd be sad if you ever had to sell it ... If it helps, I run an emtb adoption service .. It takes all the stress and hassle out of having to sell. We're here to help ! Best of all, our service is 100% free !

Any bike is a compromise in one direction or another. You might find once you have your mojo back and you've kicked things up a notch that you then prefer the advantages of this bike.

Just knob about and do some stupid things with it for now .. like a line of cones in a large grass area, pine cones if you like. Play with your body position when turning. Get used to the bike from scratch but not in an environment where you might be worried about falling off for now. Don't set any targets or expectations. Just pretend you're 5 and you're on a striker for the first time.

 

[Gary]

That's a really poor analogy Carl

There's absolutely nothing outrageous about the Orbea Wild's geometry or suspension.
infact it's fairly conservative for a 2021 FS trail bike.

There are quite a few ways to make any bike more responsive and nimble. some are free. but you'll be glad to know others involve spending money

First the FREE stuff -

• improve the rider's strength, weight and skills. (but we'll ignore that for now)
• Bike set-up (FREE). Setting up your tyre pressures to be supportive. your suspension stiff, supportive and fairly fast improves responsiveness and pop.
• taking time to set-up your control points. Bar height, roll, width. lever angle placement and saddle position

Next the costly stuff -

• a shorter stem or higher rise bar can make raising the front a lot easier - but be careful of going too high as this can reduce how much weight you have over the front and be detrimental to your cornering grip
• Tyre compounds, casings and treads affect handling massively. and choosing the stickiest burliest option can actually be detrimental to a bikes nimbility/maneuverability - Especially for a beginner
• Smaller lighter wheels are more nimble - FACT
• shorter frames are massively more maneuverable - FACT
• Lighter bikes are both more nimble and maneuverable - FACT

What size is your orbea? and what height are you?

it is a fairly long and very heavy bike for a beginner to be learning basic skills on which is why I suggested riding a normal bike to let you progress faster.

 

[carlbiker]

If you've ridden other ebikes and you prefer those then get the one you most prefer.

Or go and test ride loads more different bikes (quite hard right now) and buy the one you prefer.

Changing bikes will be expensive though.

the geometry is not hugely different between the orbea and something like a levo or cube, there are differences, but not massive.

You could put 27. 5 wheels on the orbea (or just try 27.5 on the back) and see how that changes things, bb would be way low (if you swapped both wheels) , but might help you come to some kind of conclusion about wheel size. Don't buy new wheels though, see if you can borrow some for a quick ride.

Agree with Gary though in general, it's not the bike. Whilst different bikes do have different handling/riding characteristics, no one bike (as long as its of a minimum standard - as all the bikes you have listed are) will hold you back, and unfortunately you cant buy skills or experience.

I’ll try the rear 27.5 cheers ?. My current one is on back to front which you’d think would slow it down (Another bike shop classic)

As for buying skills, until the matrix chair comes out I guess your right ? Until then the other thing ‘training’ exists but from day 1 it’s been almost impossible to find......the years of experience you have, I bet if I sat down for a day with you and paid for it, I’d be twice the rider the next day and maybe that tree incident doesn’t happen?

Like how do you learn which line to pick, whats in front of you, what are the dangers, roots do you go near to the tree where less slippy because people all go on the same part etc, a-z, millions of little details.....I don’t feel it’s wiser to try reinvent the wheel and make my own shit up when you can probably get closer to getting it right first time (and avoid future accidents) if you just get the basics in your head by learning from others or resources (?)

when I sampled the tree, I didn’t know it can take
2 seconds to jump off a rock, slip crazily on mud, push off a tree and end up crashing into tree 2....I didn’t have the knowledge to calculate the risks or even appreciate whats in front of me. Now if I see a tree I cry for mummy and avoid any 360 jumps ambitions or even 2ft rock jumps ?

How many experienced guys could have recovered from that tree hit and bailed even? Maybe slamming on the brakes would have helped but then tree 1 was there instantly so could you bail in less than a second really? I only know @Zimmerframe who would tackle it in only one way which would be to spread all fours and really go for full on tree hug but I can’t think that fast!

recap
Yesterday I was riding and my handle bars turned upwards after a bike shop had fit new bars and hadn’t tightened, so some maintenance stuff I need to learn properly before going out for other
silly, checks xyz

currently there is a nice chap who has had his fair share of painful learning experiences over 25yrs and runs his own bike mechanic shop etc who does training too so I’ll get some booked in. Months ago I did book in (before eating tree) some training elsewhere (ironically at greno) but it keeps getting pushed, even now it’s looking like June

I’ve rode other non e bikes and it’s like slow motion with less travel, lighter etc but I’d like to stay e ideally, I agree Gary is right suggesting to learn on one of those but with the dodgy disc it presents a challenge somewhat ?

 

[carlbiker]

That's a really poor analogy Carl

There's absolutely nothing outrageous about the Orbea Wild's geometry or suspension.
infact it's fairly conservative for a 2021 FS trail bike.

There are quite a few ways to make any bike more responsive and nimble. some are free. but you'll be glad to know others involve spending money

First the FREE stuff -

• improve the rider's strength, weight and skills. (but we'll ignore that for now)
• Bike set-up (FREE). Setting up your tyre pressures to be supportive. your suspension stiff, supportive and fairly fast improves responsiveness and pop.
• taking time to set-up your control points. Bar height, roll, width. lever angle placement and saddle position

Next the costly stuff -

• a shorter stem or higher rise bar can make raising the front a lot easier - but be careful of going too high as this can reduce how much weight you have over the front and be detrimental to your cornering grip
• Tyre compounds, casings and treads affect handling massively. and choosing the stickiest burliest option can actually be detrimental to a bikes nimbility/maneuverability - Especially for a beginner
• Smaller lighter wheels are more nimble - FACT
• shorter frames are massively more maneuverable - FACT
• Lighter bikes are both more nimble and maneuverable - FACT

What size is your orbea? and what height are you?

it is a fairly long and very heavy bike for a beginner to be learning basic skills on which is why I suggested riding a normal bike to let you progress faster.

Good shiz this Gazza thanks!

It’s size L I’m 6ft 85kg, but then pack more weight on with coating every limb in body armour for fun too!

I’d argue the analogy stands a little:

• Car theory test raises awareness
• Car practical test ensures skills are there
• Car that you learn in can turn
• Car doesn’t have invisible propellor blades
• Car roads don’t have trees/other close to car

Apply this to my situation, I honestly think the tree doesn’t happen!

I’m going to make a note on what you said there and action it where I can ?

Zimmer made sense with the practice in fields xyz I need to NOB about, a NOB NOBBING yes! ?

 

[Mteam]

Its just a case of getting time in the saddle riding the sort of stuff you want to ride and building up experience, it doesnt really happen overnight. But even then getting out of control on some mud (I noticed the bloke in front in the video still slipped to one side a little on landing) happens sometimes and thats the way it goes. crashes are part of mountain biking - I dont crash often, I'm no pro (far from it) , but I do still crash usually when riding stuff slightly out of my comfort zone/skill limit.

you didnt crash into that tree because of the bike, you crashed because you lost control in such a way for a fraction of a second and didnt have the experience to recover from it .


How long have you been riding a mountain bike for - 6 months? thats not long, give it time, build up to stuff.


That said - if you really havent a clue what a well set up bike looks like (tyre pressures, suspension set up, bar/stem setup etc etc etc) and neither do your mates then that will put you at a large disadvantage unless you happen to stumble across a half decent setup by accident early on.

 

[Gary]

time on the pedals > time in the saddle = MOAR SKILLZ

and a super playful bike is NOT anywhere near what most trail riders would consider a well set up bike.

 

[carlbiker]

Its just a case of getting time in the saddle riding the sort of stuff you want to ride and building up experience, it doesnt really happen overnight. But even then getting out of control on some mud (I noticed the bloke in front in the video still slipped to one side a little on landing) happens sometimes and thats the way it goes. crashes are part of mountain biking - I dont crash often, I'm no pro (far from it) , but I do still crash usually when riding stuff slightly out of my comfort zone.


How long have you been riding a mountain bike for - 6 months? thats not long, give it time, build up to stuff.


That said - if you really havent a clue what a well set up bike looks like (tyre pressures, suspension set up, bar/stem setup etc etc etc) and neither do your mates then that will put you at a large disadvantage unless you happen to stumble across a half decent setup by accident early on.

I’ve 200 miles to my entire mtb career...

it was dialled in from a shop for me and felt fairly nice actually, I’ve tackled stainburn inc off piste sections and surprising took it on well but maybe I just got lucky that day, I had 4 offs but that was actually on the flat rocky slower stuff and since I don’t have enough handling skills it’s harder, but then the thing is a tank im not sure many would be able to go slow and tackle techs stuff without a fight on a 25kg bike.

Don’t get me wrong, there are times where I’ve felt in my element with it but most the guys are non e and on dh I overtake them without peddling! ?. The other lads I’ve been out with (on emtb cubes) at times get stuck on steep boggy hills ive managed so there are some things I love, I just hate the turning arc....oh and the DH speed at times! They must use special BB or something ?

I’ll be learning setup stuff by next week and some
nobbing

 

[Mteam]

I’ve 200 miles to my entire mtb career...

it was dialled in from a shop for me and felt fairly nice actually,

200 miles is nothing, keep at it and it will get easier and the crashes less frequent (but when you do crash you'll probably be going much faster ), play about on flat ground, try and hop the bike, try dropping off kerbs but trying to land both wheels at the same time, learn to manual - if only for a fraction of a second - just having the ability to lift the front wheel with a weight transfer as opposed to pull on the bars or using the pedals/motor to lift the front will help hugely. learn to pump , learn to go round flat corners, bermed corners.

re bike setup , If it was a reputable shop they should have at least got it in the right ballpark, even if its not ideal (hint there is no one perfect setup, just the setup you like best) , but still have a play with things, make a note of current settings so you can go back to a known good baseline, but try playing with different settings and see if its better or worse than before. Have a google for "bracketing suspension settings", read the links at the top of this forum etc etc.

 

[paul-g]

Good shiz this Gazza thanks!

It’s size L I’m 6ft 85kg, but then pack more weight on with coating every limb in body armour for fun too!

I’d argue the analogy stands a little:

• Car theory test raises awareness
• Car practical test ensures skills are there
• Car that you learn in can turn
• Car doesn’t have invisible propellor blades
• Car roads don’t have trees/other close to car

Apply this to my situation, I honestly think the tree doesn’t happen!

I’m going to make a note on what you said there and action it where I can ?

Zimmer made sense with the practice in fields xyz I need to NOB about, a NOB NOBBING yes! ?

there you are you`ve just changed your name from "Caribiker" to "Nob Nobbing"
you will be known in the future as "Nob Nobbing"

 

[Gary]

Miles don't actually matter.
Time on the bike does.
And you don't need to go anywhere or build anything to ride to get bike riding time in.
The street where you live is more than enough to learn and improve on basic bike handling skills

 

[Zimmerframe]

I’ve 200 miles to my entire mtb career...

Like they've said .. that's nothing !! You're expecting too much from yourself. No one else expects anything from you, so there's no need, accept it takes time. It just happens .. slowly !

Look at good riders, it's all second nature. That's come from riding. Muscle memory. Subconscious reactions. It becomes like walking. Think of yourself as a toddler, I bet you were a crap walker in the first 6 months but you didn't complain then about your little pink baby slippers

I spent WAYYYY too much time riding too hard trails at the start thinking I'd progress faster. It doesn't work. It might if you're 18, but we're older. I've seen your video's, you're what 80 ? 85 now ? I could be doing you an injustice and I apologise if you're actually late 70's. It takes longer to learn these types of things when you're not a teen.

I finally started to improve faster when I found a 30k circular loop which was actually pretty flat. Through woods, roots, over banks, bogs all that kind of crap. I only did it to map the strava segments, but it was a revelation. The difference is that when gravity isn't pushing you along, you have more control of your speed. You're not naturally accelerating - you don't need that whilst you're trying to get used to basic bike control. It adds pressure, pressure makes you tense, tense makes you unable to turn properly, unable to turn properly hugely increases the likely hood of a crash !

Do other nobby things. Stick a line of bricks on the floor or small logs and ride over them repeatedly at different speeds. Get some barkless logs and ride over them. Wet them (not with your beer) and then ride over them some more, hit them at angles, get used to the bike slipping and regaining traction. Get used to weighting one side of the bike or the other to limit the slip. Move on to hopping the front over with pre-load. Just keep it all really simple. It doesn't have to be crazy to be fun. If you make tiny improvements, you'll become more confident and capable and will feel good !

 

[Gary]

A nice new FS mtb isn't going to hold you back but riding a hardtail will absolutely help you gain skills faster. A heavyAF E hardtail way less so.
The average mtb rider has pretty poor base skills and a basic hardtail is perfect to learn and practice ALL of them on.
You don't need to spend a whole lot. £500 should get you a nicely spec'd jump hardtail that would be great for pissing about learning skills at home or taking to jumps/pumptracks and trail centres. Don't fit a dropper. slam the saddle and leave it that way. It'll make you far stronger, improve your stability and put a complete stop to lazy habbits.

I'm pleased you may finally be realising you can't "short cut" or buy your way to proficiency Carl.
Even with skills courses and coaching. The improvements learned won't actually happen until you put in the time.

 

[carlbiker]

there you are you`ve just changed your name from "Caribiker" to "Nob Nobbing"
you will be known in the future as "Nob Nobbing"

@R120 please can you adequately edit my name to the more apt ‘Carlnobber’ until I deserve my rather misplaced current name? ?

 

[Rahr85]

At least you are willing to accept that there are improvements to be made. The majority of people have something new to learn you just have to be willing to do it at a pace you are comfortable with. If you have somewhere nearby that you can just play about in it could do you a world of good. If your location is leeds like it says then maybe hit up the urban bike park but just stick to the open areas (blue + bmx pump tracks). I wouldn't really recommend most of the red stuff there not the big tables until you feel more in control of the bike.

Attempting greno woods straight away probably not the brightest idea but i appreciate the ambition, i take it you stayed away from wharncliffe? I find the worst crashes and the ones where the bars clip a tree as it takes a fair bit of strength to not have it pull you down. My times at cannock chase made me run narrower bars than the 800mm standard as there were quite a few near misses.

What might help is just getting some riding time with others who don't pressure you into doing stuff you aren't ready for and once you get a bit more time on the bike (if not taking the gary method of having another bike) to be familiar with it perhaps try swapping bikes with others of a similar height and see how their bike feels.

For a 27.5 bike my e180 is quite 'monster trucky' but what it has allowed is for me to be more comfortable taking on jumps knowing the rear end will smooth out mistakes i make allowing me to progress faster into getting the correct speed.

I think i'm lucky in that whilst my friends are sending it over huge jumps/drops i don't feel i need to prove anything to them and am just working up to their level at my own pace and when i feel comfortable on the bike. It doesn't have to be linear progression, you can reach a point that you are happy with but drop down a few pegs on the next few rides whilst the confidence returns.

When we are allowed to travel again i'd be happy to nip up the m1 and mess about at leeds. My medium is on the small size for someone 6ft though

 

[R120]

As long as your having fun, thats all the matters - there will always be better riders out there than you, all the matters is that you riding with a smile on your face.

 

[carlbiker]

At least you are willing to accept that there are improvements to be made. The majority of people have something new to learn you just have to be willing to do it at a pace you are comfortable with. If you have somewhere nearby that you can just play about in it could do you a world of good. If your location is leeds like it says then maybe hit up the urban bike park but just stick to the open areas (blue + bmx pump tracks). I wouldn't really recommend most of the red stuff there not the big tables until you feel more in control of the bike.

Attempting greno woods straight away probably not the brightest idea but i appreciate the ambition, i take it you stayed away from wharncliffe? I find the worst crashes and the ones where the bars clip a tree as it takes a fair bit of strength to not have it pull you down. My times at cannock chase made me run narrower bars than the 800mm standard as there were quite a few near misses.

What might help is just getting some riding time with others who don't pressure you into doing stuff you aren't ready for and once you get a bit more time on the bike (if not taking the gary method of having another bike) to be familiar with it perhaps try swapping bikes with others of a similar height and see how their bike feels.

For a 27.5 bike my e180 is quite 'monster trucky' but what it has allowed is for me to be more comfortable taking on jumps knowing the rear end will smooth out mistakes i make allowing me to progress faster into getting the correct speed.

I think i'm lucky in that whilst my friends are sending it over huge jumps/drops i don't feel i need to prove anything to them and am just working up to their level at my own pace and when i feel comfortable on the bike. It doesn't have to be linear progression, you can reach a point that you are happy with but drop down a few pegs on the next few rides whilst the confidence returns.

When we are allowed to travel again i'd be happy to nip up the m1 and mess about at leeds. My medium is on the small size for someone 6ft though

I wasn’t wise enough to avoid wharny, a little bit here and a bonus fail at the end, you’ll probably recognise that one! Oh and the camo
rock was the funniest off Ive had so far


LUBP I live next to this place so I’ve been a few times, I remember buying a cube kathmandu before realising trails existing in England and kind of stumbled on it not expecting anything then went down the whole red trail ending up at the quarry and utterly shitting myself going down the red decent sporting pannier bags and all! I had to go as two ladies who were worried went and then there two kids.....I nobbed at the start of the decent and ofc I couldn’t get my balance, bikes started to slide down even with the brakes on so I just let go and hoped for the best!

Crazy thing to do as had zero protection (other than crap helmet) but I gave zero fks about any dangers, they didn’t exist to me in that moment! That changed when I would see ambulances each time I went....

I woke the next day and instantly swapped it for the full suss thinking hmmm I kind of want that buzz again! ?.

 

[Rahr85]

I was dropping off my bike at Je James for a check over and whilst waiting decided to have a walk around wharncliffe, i couldn't believe how hard it was to even walk down some of the bottom sections, it's properly gnarly and the road gap is probably something i'd never even dream of hitting.
stolen off my facebook messenger so apologies for potato.

 

[Rosemount]

Balance exercises every 2nd day for the next 3 months .
Track stands , skinnies and figure 8s . I promise you will fall off at low speed waaay less .

And dude you look in decent shape physically . I thought you were like 20 years older and 30 Kg heavier and ready for the retirement village from reading your posts .
There`s a 101 MTB coaches on You Tube , find one you relate to and get practicing .

 

[thebarber]

Brown Ale works for me.
I could usually defeat anything with a few of these and funny you mentioned them, I'm well dug into 8 of them now with a couple fosters starters but hopefully no chasers. I've got work tommo......

 

[thebarber]

Brown Ale works for me.
I could usually defeat anything with a few of these and funny you mentioned them, I'm well dug into 8 of them now with a couple fosters starters but hopefully no chasers. I've got work tommo......

Hawld on.....
I'm not officially back till 12th of April.
Jack surprise anyone?....

 

[carlbiker]

Some of wharncliffe if anyone hasn’t seen! That’s probably about 20% of it and then there’s grenoside across the road, good day out for all levels really.

Guys who clearly know what there doing but still nearly end up in a&e ?! That lad who flies between trees is blessed by the mtb gods

As fun as it might be it’s only a matter of time until something serious happens I think. Maybe for single guys it’s not major to break stuff or have permanent damage or not be able to eat solids one day but what pissed me off was when I couldn’t pick my kids up (after tree) or give them a wrestle, you soon end up with a dilemma at that point! Trouble is it’s not all down to skill, it’s pure bad/good luck sometimes!

Flying at that speed between trees this close is probably amazing fun until a tree smash and then it’s kinda lame but that’s the risk/reward buzz factor I guess

 

[paul-g]

Some of wharncliffe if anyone hasn’t seen! That’s probably about 20% of it and then there’s grenoside across the road, good day out for all levels really.

Guys who clearly know what there doing but still nearly end up in a&e ?! That lad who flies between trees is blessed by the mtb gods

As fun as it might be it’s only a matter of time until something serious happens I think. Maybe for single guys it’s not major to break stuff or have permanent damage or not be able to eat solids one day but what pissed me off was when I couldn’t pick my kids up (after tree) or give them a wrestle, you soon end up with a dilemma at that point! Trouble is it’s not all down to skill, it’s pure bad/good luck sometimes!

Flying at that speed between trees this close is probably amazing fun until a tree smash and then it’s kinda lame but that’s the risk/reward buzz factor I guess

4 miles away from me
above my pay grade !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[steve_sordy]

I've been to Wharncliffe years ago, there was ice everywhere. I don't remember any of those trails, but I was going a LOT slower of course!
Those guys are good! Wayyyyy better than me for sure.

 

[Rahr85]

that's the path gap i was on about. not a chance i'm hitting that. the videos really struggle to give an indication of how steep it is.