Chains again, sorry.

[fat&grey]

After measuring my chain recently I was disappointed to see it’s at .75 after 240 miles. Then reading posts about chains noticed people changing at .5 as my Park tool only has .75 & 1 I figured maybe I should change the Park tool as I brought it for a 10 speed. Is there a tool for 10 and one for 11 speed, is the pitch different?
Thanks

 

[Pdoz]

There are 2 different park tool measuring devices, the cc 2 is a blue tool with the ability to measure progressively rather than just yes / no . As an added bonus, you can measure your brand new chain and find it's already "25% worn" so then never really know if it's the tool reading wrong or the chain should be replaced at 50/75/100% wear....and then stop measuring because you have lost faith in the black art of chains....

 

[SquireRides]

After measuring my chain recently I was disappointed to see it’s at .75 after 240 miles. Then reading posts about chains noticed people changing at .5 as my Park tool only has .75 & 1 I figured maybe I should change the Park tool as I brought it for a 10 speed. Is there a tool for 10 and one for 11 speed, is the pitch different?
Thanks

Chain tools dont care if the chain is 10, 11 or 12 speed. Speedage affects the chain width, not the length of the links.

 

[fat&grey]

Ok thanks

 

[steve_sordy]

After measuring my chain recently I was disappointed to see it’s at .75 after 240 miles. Then reading posts about chains noticed people changing at .5 as my Park tool only has .75 & 1 I figured maybe I should change the Park tool as I brought it for a 10 speed. Is there a tool for 10 and one for 11 speed, is the pitch different?
Thanks

All bike chain is half inch pitch, it seems to be one of the few things that have not been metricated.
I don't use a go/nogo gauge; too crude. Instead I use a vernier caliper. When the chain is new I measure a length of chain and record it. I measure at several places around the chain and take the average. Yes, chains do vary along the length! They shouldn't but they do. Its not my measuring technique because I get the same result if I remeasure in the same place.
Then at intervals, I remeasure the chain and then work out the % by which the chain has apparently stretched.
If you don't want to use a vernier caliper or are not confident in using one, then direct measurement is an easy thing to do. Remove the chain and lay it out on a flat surface. Pull the chain tight and then measure at least 100 links (50") with a steel tape measure. Measure from the centre of one pin to the centre of another 100 links away. If you get 50 and one quarter inches, then the chain has "stretched" by 50.25/50 = 1.005 = 0.5%

This method averages out any variation and is easy to do and requires no investment (everyone has a steel tape measure, surely?). But you do have to remove the chain, so invest in some magic links.

 

[HikerDave]

All bike chain is half inch pitch, it seems to be one of the few things that have not been metricated.
I don't use a go/nogo gauge; too crude. Instead I use a vernier caliper. When the chain is new I measure a length of chain and record it. I measure at several places around the chain and take the average. Yes, chains do vary along the length! They shouldn't but they do. Its not my measuring technique because I get the same result if I remeasure in the same place.
Then at intervals, I remeasure the chain and then work out the % by which the chain has apparently stretched.
If you don't want to use a vernier caliper or are not confident in using one, then direct measurement is an easy thing to do. Remove the chain and lay it out on a flat surface. Pull the chain tight and then measure at least 100 links (50") with a steel tape measure. Measure from the centre of one pin to the centre of another 100 links away. If you get 50 and one quarter inches, then the chain has "stretched" by 50.25/50 = 1.005 = 0.5%

This method averages out any variation and is easy to do and requires no investment (everyone has a steel tape measure, surely?). But you do have to remove the chain, so invest in some magic links.

I have to wonder why some people experience so much chain stretch and others so little. My Arizona-based eBike has unmeasurable chain stretch after 1200 miles and it’s very dusty around here. Maybe it’s what’s in the dust or dirt that matters.

 

[JimBo]

I have to wonder why some people experience so much chain stretch and others so little. My Arizona-based eBike has unmeasurable chain stretch after 1200 miles and it’s very dusty around here. Maybe it’s what’s in the dust or dirt that matters.

For me, it's elevation gain as much as miles ridden that affects chain wear.

 

[Gary]

I have to wonder why some people experience so much chain stretch and others so little. My Arizona-based eBike has unmeasurable chain stretch after 1200 miles and it’s very dusty around here. Maybe it’s what’s in the dust or dirt that matters.

chain plates don't stretch.
it's the rollers/pivots that wear.
poor shifting has a greater affect on wear than milege alone.
as will lube/dirt

 

[Gary]

For me, it's elevation gain as much as miles ridden that affects chain wear.

torque you mean?

 

[Russell]

I suspect it's because wet mud sticks to the tyre and is then scraped off on the chain.

 

[JimBo]

torque you mean?

Indeed, the amount of torque required to climb exceeds what's needed on flatter terrain. I have some steep-ass hills in my backyard state park, so mileage alone isn't the prevailing factor in how quickly I go through chains.

 

[steve_sordy]

chain plates don't stretch.
it's the rollers/pivots that wear.
poor shifting has a greater affect on wear than milege alone.
as will lube/dirt

I agree with all of that, except that although rollers do wear, it does not affect the increase in chain length, except in the most minimal way. It's the pivots where the damage is done.

 

[steve_sordy]

I have to wonder why some people experience so much chain stretch and others so little. My Arizona-based eBike has unmeasurable chain stretch after 1200 miles and it’s very dusty around here. Maybe it’s what’s in the dust or dirt that matters.

A lightweight rider, one that puts little stress on the crank arms, who has mechanical sympathy, rides in dry and non dusty terrain and who keeps the chain clean and lubed with an appropriate lube will have a long lived chain.

A heavy rider who hero heaves his way up every hill, stamps on the pedals, shifts under power without mercy, rides in wet and gritty conditions, then fails to clean and/or lubes the chain with WD40, that person will have a short chain life.

 

[Gary]

I agree with all of that, except...

You're not disagreeing with me Steve.
I didn't mention what increases the overall chain length. (it's kind of obvious if you know how a chain is constructed).
roller wear increases wear on pivots and pins and chainring/sprocket teeth. Just as tooth wear increases wear rate of chains.

 

[steve_sordy]

It's the wear between the pins and the sideplates that cause the length extension. I agree that the outside diameter of the pin in contact with the inside diameter of the rollers wear each other, but that wear does not increase the chain length. As the chain lengthens, the pitch increases and the rollers no longer sit as well into the teeth. Instead they start to slide up and down the tooth profile, wearing the tooth. If you could magically remove the rollers from a worn chain, it would still measure the same.

 

[Gary]

Yes. Steve.
That's the obvious part I was talking about.I didn't really think it needed explaining.
It's somewhat irrelevant seeing as all chains are constructed pretty much the same way.

 

[HikerDave]

A lightweight rider, one that puts little stress on the crank arms, who has mechanical sympathy, rides in dry and non dusty terrain and who keeps the chain clean and lubed with an appropriate lube will have a long lived chain.

A heavy rider who hero heaves his way up every hill, stamps on the pedals, shifts under power without mercy, rides in wet and gritty conditions, then fails to clean and/or lubes the chain with WD40, that person will have a short chain life.

I made that costly WD40 mistake when I was very young and very strong and didn't own a car. That was a very expensive lesson.

I still use WD40 very sparingly to wet a paper towel in order clean the side plates of the chain the day after I oil it and then carefully dry off the WD-40; the idea is that I don't want the excess oil from the chain to attract dirt and gunk that might otherwise get down inside the pins and rollers of the chain the next time that I oil it.

When in Idaho I went through chains a little faster, but I was younger and the climbs were more sustained. The ground is different there though, granite in the higher elevations and Basalt everywhere in lower elevations because of all the prehistoric lava flow.

In the Snake River Canyon in spring a kind of moon dust develops that you sink into about 6 inches; it poofs up everywhere and can clean a chain completely dry to the point of squeaking in less than a mile. A four wheel drive can get stuck in that.

 

[outerlimits]

My chain stretched, so next time round I put steel one on. Never really liked the idea of using a rubber chain, I could tho wind it up like a rubber band and get a little more speed. My rubber tyres on the other hand seem to wear out, well before they streach.

It’s a strange world where steel chains streach and rubber tyres wear. I really thought it would’ve been the other way round ?‍

 

[Kernow]

I agree with all of that, except that although rollers do wear, it does not affect the increase in chain length, except in the most minimal way. It's the pivots where the damage is done.

That’s exactly why a chainguage tool is IMO the best quickest and by far the easiest most idiot proof way to check your chain . It’s taking into account the total effective wear in both pins and rollers . It doesn’t matter which of the two has the most wear the effect of the longer distance between the rollers is what causes the rest of the system to wear so fast .
Just change chains at .75 and the rest of drivetrain will last forever . No need for any more fuss than a regular check with a five quid chain gauge

 

[steve_sordy]

I agree that a simple chain gauge is exactly that, simple. It is wayyyyyy better than nothing. But I have discovered that chains vary depending upon where along the length you measure them. I struggle to see why, because all the components are manufactured separately, mixed in large bins (or many small ones) that effectively randomise them. Then the separate bits are assembled into chains. But vary they do.

So I use either of two methods. The most accurate is to lay the chain down and measure a long length with a steel tape measure, say 100 pitches. This removes any variation. The other is to leave the chain on the bike and measure with a vernier caliper gauge. This requires measuring at various points around the chain. I only started measuring at various points when I didn't believe the reading that I got. Apparently the chain had shrunk! After checking my measuring technique and getting exactly the same result I measured different places and got different results.

So if you don't like the result you get with your chain gauge, measure somewhere else!

 

[Gary]

I think what Steve might be getting at is that because chain measurement tools don't differentiate between roller slop and pivot wear many are not actually all that accurate.
If your pockets are deep this will work in your favour though as you'll always be replacing chains too early rather than too late.
It is just a guide though. and time is often way more important than the cost of a chain.

[EDIT] typed at the same time as Steve

Ps. I agree. a 12" steel rule is actually most accurate and does not require removing the chain either.

Having said all that. I don't swap chains at all.

 

[steve_sordy]

...............

Ps. I agree. a 12" steel rule is actually most accurate and does not require removing the chain either.

......

I use a roll up steel tape measure (I think its steel, it might not be, it sure is springy enough). When I measure, I go for 100 links, ie 50", so even fractions of 1% are easy to discriminate.

 

[Gary]

I think you're more than a little bit over obsessive about the whole measuriing chains thing TBH.
we all have our traits though. eh?

FWIW I rarely ever measure chains on my own bikes. but do when replacing parts on customers bikes to make the repair as economical as possible for them.

 

[steve_sordy]

I think you're more than a little bit over obsessive about the whole measuriing chains thing TBH.
we all have our traits though. eh?

FWIW I rarely ever measure chains on my own bikes. but do when replacing parts on customers bikes to make the repair as economical as possible for them.

Guilty as charged!
I have a vernier caliper gauge and know how to use it. I like to know what is happening to my kit. I am retired and have the time, so why not!

I am (or rather was) an apprentice trained engineer; the apprenticeship was served at a power transmission company (gearboxes, clutches, couplings, variable speed drives etc). The parent company was a very big chain manufacturer at which I worked for a spell, and some of their chain knowledge rubbed off on me.