Chain cleaner

[frankenbike]

To each her/his own, but is saving ~ $2 worth the risk? Not to me - I bought a 4-pack of powerlock links for $10. I rarely need to remove my chain. I keep one in my onboard toolkit for emergencies. Of course on the internet you can always find someone who agrees with your opinion - the following link (pun intended) seems a reasonable commentary that includes rationale and consult with factory tech - Q & A: Can a SRAM PowerLock Chain Link be Reused? - Road Bike Rider Cycling Site
I have also personally noticed that used powerlock links snap into place less positively and with less effort.

 

[Gary]

*sigh* Your link is just quoting SRAMs information, which I've already said in reality is not actually the case.

Great that you've found a good deal on them for $10. and yeah, happily keep reusing them to re-fit your chain if you prefer and think you're getting good value
RRP for a single 12speed quick link is around £4 and depending on filth and how much you ride you could be looking at replacing 3 or 4 a month if you regualrly remove your chain to clean it.
Thing is rather than spending that £4 (or even $2.50 you've found them for) you could simply have re-fitted your first perfectly re-useable link each time you remove and re-fit your chain.
New chains all come with them so in actual fact other than for an emergency spare like Steve carries there's no good reason to ever buy one for the life of your chain. (and stick the old one in your pack. #BelikeSteve
Seriously mate, all the internet links in the world doesn't change the fact I remove and re-fit quick links to bicycle chains almost daily and i've yet to come across a single use quick link that can't be re-used and afterwards is perfectly "secure" for riding. It has honestlynever caused an issues

I have also personally noticed that used powerlock links snap into place less positively and with less effort.

and exactly what makes you think it would have to snap into place any more positively than a 7, 8, 9, 10 speed and all re-useable quick links do?

 

[lumpy]

For chain cleaning I've used one of those Park enclosed scrubbing chain things you snap around the chain and spin the cranks for many years.
Recently I've been using an ultrasonic cleaner with Simple Green. I figure it'll get more of the tiny gunk out of the pin-roller gap as that's where the wear is. Can't say it's any better but the chain looks brand new when it comes out.

As for the quick links, I reuse them and haven't had one fail yet. I also carry an extra along with a chain tool just in case

 

[HORSPWR]

To each her/his own, but is saving ~ $2 worth the risk? Not to me - I bought a 4-pack of powerlock links for $10. I rarely need to remove my chain. I keep one in my onboard toolkit for emergencies. Of course on the internet you can always find someone who agrees with your opinion - the following link (pun intended) seems a reasonable commentary that includes rationale and consult with factory tech - Q & A: Can a SRAM PowerLock Chain Link be Reused? - Road Bike Rider Cycling Site
I have also personally noticed that used powerlock links snap into place less positively and with less effort.

C'mon mate, you should know better!
@Gary is an expert on all things global and should not be questioned!

 

[steve_sordy]

Dude. how do you think I measured those 3 chains?
I'm not new to this.
You're not actually disagreeing with me, you're simply not listening , or seeing the bigger picture.
I'll spell it out again for you very simply.

ONE VERY SLIGHTLY WORN QUICKLINK IN A NEW 120LINK(ish) CHAIN WON'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE

I agree that using one worn quicklink will not make a measurable difference in the length of a 120 link chain. But that is not the point. The point is that the link is as worn as the chain that has just been discarded. Compared to the new chain you have just fitted it is literally a weak link. For the cost of a link, why bother? The old link is still strong of course, which is why I offer them to those that need one to get home.

This approach of using the link as many times as you like for the life of the chain and then discarding it along with the chain is a sensible approach. It avoids the extreme of discarding after one use and the extreme of never throwing it away.

 

[Gary]

The point is that the link is as worn as the chain that has just been discarded. Compared to the new chain you have just fitted it is literally a weak link.

Thanks captain obvious! But let's just stop now, eh?
You literally have no idea how much that ever so slightly worn quick link is weakened by and you literally have no actual experience of re-using one yourself.
Do yourself a favour and put your mind at rest by taking calipers to one of the used quick links in your pack and comparing its pin thickness to that of the one in your current chain?

This approach of using the link as many times as you like for the life of the chain and then discarding it along with the chain is a sensible approach. It avoids the extreme of discarding after one use and the extreme of never throwing it away.

And yet. You keep them to hand out to your "friends".

*slow clap*

 

[frankenbike]

Not sure what is more worn out - those reused master links....or this thread.

 

[wepn]

Today an expert (not Gary) recommended I swap Rock n Roll for Finish Line E-bike Lube. Lasts much longer & cuts down on wear so sayonara R&R.

Finish Line - Bicycle Lubricants and Care Products - e-Bike Chain Lube™

 

[wepn]

They also make the cleaners "available as solo unit."

I'd send Gary one if I knew he wouldn't take that literally & end up in emergency.

 

[steve_sordy]

Thanks captain obvious! But let's just stop now, eh?
You literally have no idea how much that ever so slightly worn quick link is weakened by and you literally have no actual experience of re-using one yourself.
Do yourself a favour and put your mind at rest by taking calipers to one of the used quick links in your pack and comparing its pin thickness to that of the one in your current chain?


And yet. You keep them to hand out to your "friends".

*slow clap*

I do know how much that ever so slightly worn link is weakened. It is worn by the same amount that every other link has worn, ie 0.75%, or whatever % the rest of the chain was worn at when it was rejected as too worn to go on the bike.

Assuming that all links wear evenly (and I know they don't) 0.75% of a half inch link is just under 0.004". That figure is shared between the pins of the outer link and the side plates of the inner link. Another assumption is that the figure is shared evenly. Therefore I'd be looking for 0.002" larger figure than normal when measuring between the inside faces of the pins. If I was looking to measure just one pin, then I'd be looking for a difference of 0.001" (smaller), but only along the centreline of the link, not at right angles.
I have an internal vernier caliper that is perfectly capable of measuring that accurately and repeatedly. And I have the skill to do so repeatedly and accurately. But I'd have to have measured a new pin before hand to be able to compare. Why would I want to do that? To find out if the master link that was part of a chain that I have already decided is too worn to use is still OK?

Why are you so critical of me handing these used links to other riders? I only do it for people that are in desperate need and I tell them it's a used one. "Friends" or not, they are always very grateful! How can my helpful practice be so bad when you "remove and re-fit quick links to bicycle chains almost daily and i've yet to come across a single use quick link that can't be re-used and afterwards is perfectly "secure" for riding. It has honestlynever caused an issues".

I too have yet to come across a quick link that can't be reused and is secure for riding. But I cannot escape the fact that the link is worn beyond an acceptable limit for the chain as a whole. This is my rationale for using the quick link frequently throughout the life of the chain and then using a new one on a new chain.

And I literally do have experience of using a worn quicklink myself, I have used my one of own when I jammed a chain and had to discard a few links and reconnect with one from my pack.

I fail to understand why you need to be so irritable when discussing this sort of topic. What I'm saying and doing is neither dangerous, nor wrong, not even unethical.

 

[Gary]

Hahaha ?
That's the exact opposite of stopping!
I didn't ask you to measure a new link.
You don't even seem to understand what part of the link I was asking you to measure.
So just forget it entirely

 

[steve_sordy]

Hahaha ?
That's the exact opposite of stopping!
I didn't ask you to measure a new link.
You don't even seem to understand what part of the link I was asking you to measure.
So just forget it entirely

I would like to learn, you are saying that I have something to learn, so teach me. What part of the link would you measure?

 

[Mcharza]

Today an expert (not Gary) recommended I swap Rock n Roll for Finish Line E-bike Lube. Lasts much longer & cuts down on wear so sayonara R&R.

Finish Line - Bicycle Lubricants and Care Products - e-Bike Chain Lube™

Agree, used it couple of year. Better than Muck-off, because the chain stays dry and the dust does not stick to it

 

[OldGoatMTB]

<snip>
Why are you so critical of me handing these used links to other riders?
<snip>
I fail to understand why you need to be so irritable when discussing this sort of topic. What I'm saying and doing is neither dangerous, nor wrong, not even unethical.

I would be very grateful if I had a broken chain and someone helped my get going with a used link. I'm probably replacing the entire chance at the earliest opportunity, anyway.

 

[HORSPWR]

Today an expert (not Gary) recommended I swap Rock n Roll for Finish Line E-bike Lube. Lasts much longer & cuts down on wear so sayonara R&R.

Finish Line - Bicycle Lubricants and Care Products - e-Bike Chain Lube™

I can't wait for Gary to get a hold of this product and pull it to pieces
I can hear it now, "no need to use specific e-bike lubes, I've been using the nut juice from Scottish sheep for decades, best stuff ever"!

 

[wepn]

Have a laf Gary! Or turn up the good humour dial. Direct it at me and I'll laugh. If you don't I will.

Zimmer does the best job. I strive to be like him. Let go of the frown or whatever, it feels good. This is a difficult time so let's try & make it all a little bit easier.

 

[EMTBSEAN]

I’m gonna be a chicken on this one and thanks to everyone for your help and advice on the subject of chain cleaning and links ?

 

[Sapientiea]

Is it not the rollers that are wearing ever so slightly? Then the quick-link wear should be minimal. I personally do not re-use quick-links. They stay as long as the chain is OK. Replacing the quick-link after taking the chain off for cleaning is of course stupid.......

 

[IanVersion2]

Pretty sure you're actually better off re-using quick links. I mean, think about it. If you need a plumber who are you booking, the 'old-hand' veteran who has laid more metres of copper than you've had hot dinners, or the straight outta college, rookie who's read all the books but never turned a wrench in his life?

Same with chain links. Don't give me no rookie, straight-out-the-packet links. I want a been-there, done-that, battle-hardened, tried and trusted veteran quick link holding my shit together. Ain't that right @Gary ?

?

 

[Mikerb]

A quicklink uses a "v" taper to provide a secure connection to the pin. The edges of the taper are chamfered to make the metal weaker than the pin. As per any v taper it is sacrificial.....the edge is worn by the action of fully engaging with the pin. It is therefore a less secure fit if re used and probably completely knackered after being fitted twice.

 

[Sapientiea]

A quicklink uses a "v" taper to provide a secure connection to the pin. The edges of the taper are chamfered to make the metal weaker than the pin. As per any v taper it is sacrificial.....the edge is worn by the action of fully engaging with the pin. It is therefore a less secure fit if re used and probably completely knackered after being fitted twice.

So that means changing quick-links every time you take your chain off? Haven't done that in years and never had a problem with it....But I also carry a spare always....

 

[MrBrownstone]

Lube sparingly and properly and you’ll never have to use chain degreaser.

 

[simonrwarner]

washing up liquid works well. the park cm5-2 chain cleaner is awesome. I've scrubbed mine with a brush then done it with the park tool as a test, water was black, and chain felt much nicer.

I test it by twisting the chain and feeling for grittiness. The park tool is the only thing that makes it feel like new.

Be careful with washing up liquid. I read that you shouldn’t wash a car, motorbike etc using washing up liquid because it contains salt which will corrode metal.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Be careful with washing up liquid. I read that you shouldn’t wash a car, motorbike etc using washing up liquid because it contains salt which will corrode metal.

Dawn is pretty much all I use for car/bike washing.

 

[Nicho]

Be careful with washing up liquid. I read that you shouldn’t wash a car, motorbike etc using washing up liquid because it contains salt which will corrode metal.

Yes, and it also takes the expensive coatings off your expensive prescription / sun glasses.

 

[Philly G]

Lube sparingly and properly and you’ll never have to use chain degreaser.

^^^ 100% agree with this. I almost never need to degrease my chain. After trying lots of lube, I have settled on WPL, which I love. 100% organic, and the crap washes off with water without cleaning off all the lube (you need decent pressure, the lube won't wash off in the rain) Really good stuff. I use their dry lube all year round, no problem as long as I re-lube regularly, stops the chain getting mucky, so no need to degrease. Of course wet lube better suited to riders who regularly ride in very wet and muddy / sandy conditions. For cleaning/degreasing I use Guy Martin's Proper cleaners, also 100% organic and work very well. I do have the Park Tool chain cleaner which works very well, but I also find I can just brush the degreaser on and hose it off, job done. Kind to the environment, and easy job.
No way would I ever bother breaking my chain just to clean it, but on the subject of quicklinks, I have followed this entertaining debate with interest.
Chucking in my 5 cent's worth: I agree the quicklink wears at the same rate as the rest of the chain, how can it not? Interesting what MikerB said about the v-taper, makes sense. Having said that, I have absolutely reused quicklinks with no trouble whatsoever, and will continue to do so. I don't break my chains super regularly, however. On a new chain though of course I would use the brand new link that came with it, I mean why wouldn't you. As for Steve carrying a few used quicklinks in his pack - mate if you appeared in my hour of need with a used quicklink, I would not be able to thank you enough.
some (quick) links for anyone who might be interested:

Degreaser by Guy Martin: Refill pouch making 1.5 litres of Drivetrain cleaner!!

Proper Degreaser by Guy Martin!! 70% of the world is water, why ship it!! Refill pouch only! Note, bottle not included. Proper Degreaser from Proper Cleaner by Guy Martin, is a drivetrain cleaner, perfect for cleaning Chainrings, Sprockets, Cassettes and Chains on both Bikes and Motorbikes...

www.guymartinproper.com

proper cleaner | Chain Reaction

proper cleaner - Get the Lowest Prices from the Worlds Largest Online Bike Store - Chain Reaction Cycles

www.chainreactioncycles.com

Bicycle Chain Dry Lube

WPL Dry Chain Lube is a premium bio-based chain lube formulated for dry and dusty riding conditions. The endurance formulate has been designed to penetrate deep into chain links to maximize pedal efficiency and facilitate gear-shifting. The biodegradable, non-toxic, and PTFE-free formula keeps...

us.wplbike.com

 

[Flatslide]

I've been using Rock N Roll - Holy Cow lube. It cleans and lubes in one application. Chain maintenance has never been so easy.

 

[Banktramp]

No Nonsense Heavy Duty Degreaser 5Ltr

 

[salko]

IMHO chain cleaners/degreasers are just for sucking money out of your pockets or if your main goal is to have a perfectly clean chain - which doesn't necessary mean it will last longer. I like to keep it simple and don't wanna put much time and money in chain maintenance. I just lube the chain with MucOff Dry/Wet lube every 60-80km (or after washing the bike), I wipe the chain with a cloth sprayed with Würth brake cleaner before every 2-3x lubing to remove most of old lube+dirt, but not to make it perfectly clean. This works for me perfectly, X01 Eagle chain lasts about 2000-2500km before 0,5% wear (measured with steel ruler), which I think is very nice range for 12spd drivetrain on emtb ...

 

[Mr President]

IMHO chain cleaners/degreasers are just for sucking money out of your pockets or if your main goal is to have a perfectly clean chain - which doesn't necessary mean it will last longer. I like to keep it simple and don't wanna put much time and money in chain maintenance. I just lube the chain with MucOff Dry/Wet lube every 60-80km (or after washing the bike), I wipe the chain with a cloth sprayed with Würth brake cleaner before every 2-3x lubing to remove most of old lube+dirt, but not to make it perfectly clean. This works for me perfectly, X01 Eagle chain lasts about 2000-2500km before 0,5% wear (measured with steel ruler), which I think is very nice range for 12spd drivetrain on emtb ...

that's astonishing. Where do you ride?