Carbon Wheels?

[BBear]

Took my 6 week old Rail 9.8XT to the Brecon Beacons for a big ride with mates on Wednesday and mistimed a hop over a rock lined drainage gulley and slammed the rear wheel into a rock which badly dented the aluminium rim and of course the tyre blew. Impossible to get the tyre to seal so ended up putting a tube in which got me home.

Took the bike into my Trek dealer this morning and the wheel is a write off. The guy in there suggested carbon wheels for an improved performance (stiffer?) tho that would mean replacing both wheels and they cost around £1k. Nearly went for it but decided just to replace the aluminium wheel which is around £130.

in fairness the guy wasn’t giving a hard sell, but do you think carbon would be a worthwhile upgrade for a Joe average rider? One plus is that the carbon wheels have a 2 year replacement guarantee if damaged for whatever reason.

 

[BBear]

Yeah, apart from the high cost, common sense (which I don’t have much of) was telling me that carbon isn’t good with impact damage.

So that’s why I went for aluminium, but curious to know whether carbon wheels are ever a practical option - Maybe it’s just a racing/expert thing?

 

[jbrown15]

Dude carbon rims are retarded for that suggestion!!!! With a carbon wheel you’d be walking home not just a bent rim. Just get it rebuilt with an aluminum one.

If the impact is strong enough to damage a GOOD carbon rim, there's no way your riding the bike with only a bent rim if it was aluminum......lol

Good carbon rims can take a much higher impact than and aluminum one, so if the impact is strong enough to break the carbon you would have completely taco'd the aluminum one too.

 

[R120]

The simple answer is that in terms of the issue you had, and avoiding it, a decent Aluminium rim or Carbon rim will do the job.

the difference is one costs about 5 times as much as the other.

there is no definitive answer to what is best over a top end Carbon or top end alloy wheels, a lot of it is down to preference and to be able to tell the difference IMO you need to be a pretty good rider.

personally I stick with a good quality alloy one as ultimately wheels get knackered and I am not going to waste money ona carbon rim that isn’t going to make a jot of difference to me or my riding when alloy ones do the job fine

 

[fenwick458]

If the impact is strong enough to damage a GOOD carbon rim, there's no way your riding the bike with only a bent rim if it was aluminum......lol

Good carbon rims can take a much higher impact than and aluminum one, so if the impact is strong enough to break the carbon you would have completely taco'd the aluminum one too.

In my opinion carbon seems to be hit and miss. so you might be right, and it may be stronger, if the person who laid it up has done it 100% correctly. but maybe they haven't, and in which case its weaker, and fails in some bizzare way!

I also don't think there a massive weight saving with carbon rims on E-MTB's, not that weight matters anyway, so what is the reason for doing it?
i think if you mis time a jump over a drainage gulley and slam the rear wheel into a square edge on a 25kg EMTB then it doesn't matter what you have, it's going to be toast!
I'd just stick with aluminium, it's cheaper to replace

 

[RustyIron]

Aluminum rims easily bend, dent, fatigue, crack, and require retentioning. Carbon is more durable in all regards, and is more trouble-free.

If you're rolling on groomed trails, aluminum might be fine. If you're banging through epic rock gardens at maximum speed, then carbon will probably be your better choice.

This video isn't a scientific comparison, and you still might hate carbon, but it's certainly amusing.

 

[RustyIron]

In my opinion carbon seems to be hit and miss. so you might be right, and it may be stronger, if the person who laid it up has done it 100% correctly. but maybe they haven't, and in which case its weaker, and fails in some bizzare way!

You might be right. But in the interest of consistency, do you ride a carbon frame? Carbon bars? Carbon brake levers? Carbon cranks?

 

[GMLS]

I've been looking and was going to go with these until I got a 2nd hand set at a good price.

HUNT E_Enduro Wide E-MTB 29 Wheelset

Developed for full-power, E-Enduro bikes for hard-hitting terrain and adventures. Wide 37mm alloy rims offer optimal tyre shape for enhanced braking performance and traction. 25% thicker alloy construction and 41% more material at the rim bed for incredible durability.

www.huntbikewheels.com

They do carbon as well if you really want carbon or there are these but p&p adds a lump

 

[Mikerb]

I am in danger of repeating myself here! Saying something is made of carbon is not different than saying something is made of plastic. There are literally hundreds of different plastics all with different properties. Similarly a product described as "carbon " tells you very little except it is likely to be expensive because the manufacturing process is labour intensive. Any "carbon" product is made of composite layers of fibre matting. If that matting does indeed comprise only carbon fibres the next question is what modulus carbon was used and what is the design of the matting...unidirectional/matrix/ 45 degrees/30 degrees. Costs, strength, and intended direction of compression, stretch, flex, varies dependant on the matting lay up. Next the composite may not in fact be 100% carbon. A mat may be a mix of carbon, glass, kevlar etc.
Lastly there are several choices of epoxy resin that can be used. In most applications where impact resistance and high torsional strength is required a carbon composite ( correct terms as opposed to "carbon") is unlikely to be 100% carbon or much lighter than an alloy equivalent. The greatest difference is the a bility of a highly skilled carbon composite designer/ fabricator to vary the performance characteristics either as a whole or in specific parts of the overall structure. So you can build a wheel with more flex......but carbon has a high reflex so it restores shape very quickly; or make it very stiff.
Merely classifying a wheel, set of bars etc as ally similarly tells you nothing. Just like carbon there are many different types of ally and they vary in terms of cost and their performance characteristics. 6000 series for example is cheaper heavier and not as stiff as 7000 series......but 7075 is more difficult to bend to shape and beyond a certain bend angle it becomes weaker.

Long story short.........a good quality ally for 99% of riders is better value for money and better suited for the job.

 

[fenwick458]

You might be right. But in the interest of consistency, do you ride a carbon frame? Carbon bars? Carbon brake levers? Carbon cranks?

i've had a carbon hardtail, 2 x carbon FS MTB's and the current carbon EMTB (Orbea Wild FS M20 with alu rear triangle)
also had 2 carbon road bikes, the latter one fitted with carbon seatpost, and carbon bars/stem
(the carbon integrated bars & stem came from china, and I made a few YT vids about it , the first pair arrived with a hairline crack which i'm guessing happened in shipping, and although it didn't look bad at first glance when I tested it in the vice it just sheared right off. but I couldn't break the other side for trying. even several friends tried to break them, but couldn't. I got a second set sent for free and they were perfect, tested them first and then rode them on the bike fine)
and currently ride a full carbon Orbea Gain M30
I still think there is a lot to be learned in the quality control of carbon manufacturing, got no doubts it can be made strong and outperform alloy, but there is still a large percentage of failures.
carbon fibre is all hand made isn't it? I think thats where the problem is. get it all automated and it might be more consistent.

 

[R120]

Most of the EWS pros and the Downhill pros use Alloy wheels. Nowt wrong with Carbon but four hauling ass on heavy duty bikes no tangable benefits.

Ultimately if you put cost aside and you are a good enough rider to actually discern the differences between different wheel sets, choosing between one wheel set and another, Carbon or alloy, is all about personal preference.

throw in tyre choice and pressure and what rims play nicely with that then you have a whole other load of I flunces on what will work best for you.

the people I know who know their onions and ride Carbon wheels do so because they like the feel of the overall wheel set, not because it is Carbon.

the rim is only part of the equation, spokes and the hub pay as equal a part - if you are a real wheel nerd the spokes are probably the most significant aspect of a wheel build

 

[dixie600mhz]

I have alloy rims on my rail and carbon rims on my acoustic bikes. The weight savings (if any) from carbon on a rail don't make sense. The difference in feel is that the alloy flexes, sometimes in a good way. The carbon rims are much harsher so there's definitely a feel difference. Since our rails are heavy already, I went for all out durability over weight. The 100+ engagement points of the cheap alloy rim and hub is amazing. Stick a cushcore in the alloy and plenty sealant and blaze through anything. No carbon rims for me on the rail. It doesn't make sense.

 

[PAC]

Sense is a sensible thing but not always easy to sense.......since you mention it........there's also nonsense......which I prefer.......but that may just be me..........

 

[John B]

I have carbon rims on my rail 9.8, but only because I had them already.(off my old slash) I would not buy them again if they needed replacing. I have already been through one but it was replaced under warranty.

 

[Bomble]

I seem to have the opposite experience to many here. I have fitted carbon wheels to my rail and the difference is night and day, one of the best upgrades I’ve done.

 

[RickBullotta]

FWIW, the commentary from the UCI Downhill race at Snowshoe pointed out that the pros on aluminum rims were having issues with damage whereas those on carbon rims were not. I have had carbon rims on most of my bikes, and I would say that the advantages are primarily in damage resistance. I've not had a single issue with them, whereas I've flatspotted, cracked, or tacoed many an aluminum rim. However, I don't sense any performance difference from carbon vs aluminum.

 

[Doomanic]

Get a good ally rim (DT Swiss EX511 would be my choice) laced on to your existing hub and fit a Cushcore rim protector. Run sensible tyre pressures and you'll be golden.

Bonty (and pretty much all OEM ) aluminium rims are trash; I've even flat-spotted my front FFS!

 

[BiGJZ74]

My last 5 wheelsets on three bikes, 3 carbon, 2 alloy. 2 alloys on a total of 17 rides and both rear rims damaged beyond repair. 3 others are Santa Cruz Reserve Carbons. Combined 400+ rides on the same trails without issue, surface scratches, big rock strikes, all still run true. Carbon all the way for me.

 

[apac]

I seem to have the opposite experience to many here. I have fitted carbon wheels to my rail and the difference is night and day, one of the best upgrades I’ve done.

I agree. I love the feel of the stiffer wheel. They also roll noticeably better, but that's when running lighter thinner tyres. Less noticeable with more heavy duty wellies. The stiffer the better?

 

[Yoak]

I got carbon rims for the replacement guarantee. If they break, I get a replacement. It did break after 6 weeks though. Rail 9.8

 

[jbrown15]

I still love my carbon WeAreOnes, just ordered two more rims to build another set of wheels. Life time no questions asked warranty, nothing about “hey you’ve broken two rims the next time the warranty is pro rated” to worry about.

and if you ship them the damaged wheel they’ll rebuild it for free and ship it back.

 

[JetSedgwick]

I have carbon rims, I can't say I notice any difference.

 

[jbrown15]

Did yalls break because too low tire pressure or actual failure?

I’ve had my wheels for a year now without a single issue. Not even a lose spoke.

I have a buddy that’s broken two WeAreOne rims but only because he’s been using their lightest XC model for Enduro use and does some pretty big hucks on them. On his third wheel he finally asked them to replace it with their enduro rim and he hasn’t had an issue since. I’m rolling on their DH rim and it’s been absolutely bulletproof.

 

[jbrown15]

It’s insane that the ENVE wheels are back ordered right now until aug 2022.

shows how good they are and how insane mtbers are.
Also trickstuff brakes. Madness.

WeAreOne is back ordered on I9 Hydra hubs, but my rims arrived a week after ordering them just last week.

 

[BiGJZ74]

Ha yeah I have the WAO strife and union on my DH bike. No issues so far. Beautiful wheels. I have the enve M5s on my Levo SL. Fairly hard on them for XC wheels but I sure wouldn’t do anything crazy on them.

I'm gonna build up a set of Nobl Tr32's for my Transition Spur I have on order....Either DT Swiss 180's or 240's w/ sapim CX Rays, so pretty light, ~1350g set. I plan on running a bit beefier suspension since i'm a big guy but don't think It'll be a big issue as this bike is more for longer less technical rides. I'm trying to offset the heavier suspension w/ lighter strong carbon wheels, plus Nobl says if you do break a few sets under warranty, they'd replace to a stronger rim if needed, so no loss in trying. I've got 2 big bikes, Wreckoning V3 and a Rallon for that stuff, plus my Rail 7 which is long stroked for 169mm rear travel. The Rail 7 can pretty much tackle anything but I still like to pedal on Solo rides. Rail 7 I really just ride socially with my normal sized friends so I don't slow down the group. Mostly run Eco/emtb lite

 

[jbrown15]

I'm gonna build up a set of Nobl Tr32's for my Transition Spur I have on order....Either DT Swiss 180's or 240's w/ sapim CX Rays, so pretty light, ~1350g set. I plan on running a bit beefier suspension since i'm a big guy but don't think It'll be a big issue as this bike is more for longer less technical rides. I'm trying to offset the heavier suspension w/ lighter strong carbon wheels, plus Nobl says if you do break a few sets under warranty, they'd replace to a stronger rim if needed, so no loss in trying. I've got 2 big bikes, Wreckoning V3 and a Rallon for that stuff, plus my Rail 7 which is long stroked for 169mm rear travel. The Rail 7 can pretty much tackle anything but I still like to pedal on Solo rides. Rail 7 I really just ride socially with my normal sized friends so I don't slow down the group. Mostly run Eco/emtb lite

Holy bikes Batman…..lol
Sounds like it’ll be a nice setup, depending on where you’re located I hope your local shop has those hubs in stock. DT Swiss has some serious delays. I’ve had some 240’s on order since March and they are quoting ETA’s for late 2022 for allot of their hubs.

 

[Yoak]

Did yalls break because too low tire pressure or actual failure?

I hit a rock after a 5 foot drop. Psi was around 25, no cushcore

 

[Mcharza]

I hit a rock after a 5 foot drop. Psi was around 25, no cushcore

At that high drop, the pressures are pretty low. At least for the rear tire

 

[R120]

Yup. Def. Was about 32 for this drop and burped the back.
View attachment 72583

That is a sick feature - I take it that a purpose built drop resembling rising though a house?

 

[Zimmerframe]

That is a sick feature - I take it that a purpose built drop resembling rising though a house?

This is bambam .. it's more likely he just rode through someones house to see some lady naked ..