Carbon or Ali bars to dampen out stutter bumps ?

[Waynemarlow]

Moved from a line of Marzocchi Bomber front shocks on various bikes I've used for the last 25 years to a Manitou fork ( suppossidly made by the same company now ) for cost reasons and up to this point I have been really dissapointed with the suppleness of Manitou fork over the very small high speed stutter bumps which seemed to vibrate the bars. In comparison to the Bomber forks they are like chalk and cheese, although the internals are pretty much of the same type.

Out of desperation after playing with the setup and trying to get the Manitou forks more supple in the initial travel, I had given up but thought I would try one last thing, replace the carbon bars ( which I have used on the Marzocchi's ) to a more standard Ali bar. Well what a difference, the Ali bars have just enough damping and flex to take the vibration out and voila we have a pretty comparable fork that doesn't vibrate the ferk out of your hands. Well worth a shot guys if your fork isn't quite doing as it should over the small bumps.

 

[KenX]

Or go for the Oneup carbon bars with flex/damping built in, really worked for me

 

[apac]

Or go for the Oneup carbon bars with flex/damping built in, really worked for me

Agree. I have these bars and the flex is great. Though other people may differ in opinion ?

 

[Gyre]

I love the OneUp handlebars, but if I'm being brutally honest, I'd say that they make 35mm bars bearable instead of ridiculous, where most people (especially lighter weight folks) would probably be better served with a 31.8 carbon bar.

I used a Deity Skywire 35mm last year that I won in a drawing prior to trying the OneUp. The Skywire was reputed to be one of the more comfortable 35mm bars out there. After my experience trying them, I'd say that if that's true, it's like saying falling on your top tube is more comfortable if you have a quality chamois.

But yeah, that taught me that picking the right handlebars actually matters if you're riding hard enough.

 

[roboticinvesting]

After some of the same concerns with brake bump/small bump performance on my downhill bike (not an eMTB) with a Fox 40 I was worried it was the fork as well as the handlebars (I run oneup carbon bars) as well as even maybe the grips.

Turns out my biggest problem was I was running too high of air pressure in my tires, especially my front tire. I was up to 26/28 psi (front/rear) thinking that because of riding park I needed to protect my rims more. However, as soon as I dropped to 17/19 psi it made a WORLD of difference on the feel of the bike. My hands no longer hurt and I didn't worry my teeth were going to shake out Plus even on the bigger jumps with more cases than I would prefer to admit, as well as some pretty rough sharp rocky tech sections I never nailed the rim and actually felt more in control.

Not sure if that will fix your problem, but my advice for what it is worth is to check those tire pressures and experiment with that as well.

 

[Akelu]

I've got a 31.8 ALU bar (pnw range kw) which is said to be quite compliant for what it is, but I've been thinking of swapping over to carbon for a bit more comfort. Heard about the one-up carbon 35 but just wondering how that would compare to the 31.8 Alu. I know the one-up tapers off quite fast so it's not like completely 35mm.

 

[Gyre]

I've got a 31.8 ALU bar (pnw range kw) which is said to be quite compliant for what it is, but I've been thinking of swapping over to carbon for a bit more comfort. Heard about the one-up carbon 35 but just wondering how that would compare to the 31.8 Alu. I know the one-up tapers off quite fast so it's not like completely 35mm.

I'd put the OneUp roughly in the same ballpark as a carbon 31.8 when it comes to dampening vibration.

 

[steve_sordy]

I went from Renthal Fatbar Lite (alloy) to the same width and rise Renthal Fatbar Lite Carbon. The effect was very noticeable indeed for the first few rides. After that it was the new normal.

It felt like every single rock has had its corners rounded off just for me. Trail vibration was reduced substantially. I cannot speak for other carbon bars because that was the only one I ever had.

 

[B1rdie]

I ride two trek bikes with aluminum frames, one with a rigid carbon fork and the other with manitou machete.
The manitou manual advises that it needs a break in period of 20 hours and it may feel harsh on first rides.
That said, the bike with manitou feels like butter if compared to the hard jaws one, so I tried a carbon bar. Bought an enve bar and it was more flexible and wider than the previous straight ali handlebars.
But soon my shoulders started to stress from the too wide stance and I cut the enve bars to the 760mm I use on orher bikes.
Even after shortenning the carbon bar to the same lengh of the aluminum one, it still has more flex.
In the end, front end trail chatter has more to do with how hard you grab the grips, how loose you keep the arms, front tyre pressure, grip material…
The flex of the handlebars being more noticeable on tha harder impacts imho.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Comparing a Manitou to a rigid fork, yup it’s going to feel like butter. Go one better and fit a Marzocchi and your Manitou is going to feel like your rigid fork .

Yup very aware of tyre pressures ( I run my front at 20 - 22 depending on time of year ) very aware of 25% - 30 % sag, very aware of tuning a fork to your weight, very aware of how not to grip / weight the bars and totally confused how most of you seem to think your carbon bars are more flexible than an Ali one.

Construction and materials would almost suggest the other way around but also very aware that with the correct layup of Carbon you can build in what ever flex you want. Perhaps my Carbon bar was built for downhill racing.

 

[cabbynate]

I have herd nothing but good things about these bars...
Fasst Company FlexX Suspension Handlebars Review

 

[apac]

I have herd nothing but good things about these bars...
Fasst Company FlexX Suspension Handlebars Review

£450.00..... seriously?

 

[7869hodgy]

These arrived today thanks to this thread. I’ll let you know how it goes…

View attachment 69524

 

[geehaw]

the Ali bars have just enough damping and flex to take the vibration out

Interesting comment. As a general rule carbon should have more flex than Al. But whatever works.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Yup very aware of tyre pressures ( I run my front at 20 - 22 depending on time of year ) very aware of 25% - 30 % sag, very aware of tuning a fork to your weight, very aware of how not to grip / weight the bars and totally confused how most of you seem to think your carbon bars are more flexible than an Ali one.

Construction and materials would almost suggest the other way around but also very aware that with the correct layup of Carbon you can build in what ever flex you want. Perhaps my Carbon bar was built for downhill racing.

I'm relatively new to the experience of carbon bars but love my one ups & doing the research before buying I did not see one piece of evidence or even opinion saying Ali bars were regarded as more flexible than carbon. In the search for trail comfort all the articles I read recommended swapping to carbon. I've been following your other posts & advice & realise this isn't your first rodeo & would like to know why you regard ali as more flexible than carbon?
The oneups purport to be layered up to stop lateral flex but allow vertical flex.

 

[cabbynate]

£450.00..... seriously?

Yep. Sometimes you can find them a little cheaper but not often. The people that ride them love them. Kinda like wireless dropper post and shifting. You gotta pay to play...

 

[Gyre]

I'm relatively new to the experience of carbon bars but love my one ups & doing the research before buying I did not see one piece of evidence or even opinion saying Ali bars were regarded as more flexible than carbon.

I don't recall hearing about any aluminum bars being flexxier than carbon either, but anyone who's ever ridden a 80's Vitus or Fat Chance frame can tell you that metal (be it CroMo or Aluminum) can have more compliance than carbon. Just depends on the details and metallurgy I suppose.

 

[DtEW]

Moved from a line of Marzocchi Bomber front shocks on various bikes I've used for the last 25 years to a Manitou fork ( suppossidly made by the same company now ) for cost reasons

Where did you hear this?

Marzocchi was bought out by Tenneco in the mid-Aughts. The brand was folded by its owner and then was bought by Fox in the mid-Teens. Current Marzocchi forks are made by Fox.

Manitou was bought out by Answer in the mid-'90s. Answer Manitou was then bought out by Hayes in the mid-Aughts, where it remains.

AFAIK there's been no intersection of Marzocchi and Manitou.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I'm relatively new to the experience of carbon bars but love my one ups & doing the research before buying I did not see one piece of evidence or even opinion saying Ali bars were regarded as more flexible than carbon. In the search for trail comfort all the articles I read recommended swapping to carbon. I've been following your other posts & advice & realise this isn't your first rodeo & would like to know why you regard ali as more flexible than carbon?
The oneups purport to be layered up to stop lateral flex but allow vertical flex.

Flex is probably the wrong thing to be talking about here and I think the thread has moved from damping to be more concerned with flex. I don't consider them the same and I believe its a combination of flex and damping inherent in the material that we need to talk about. A small test for you, tap both a Carbon bar and Ali bar with a small diameter long length screwdriver blade and tell me which one resonates the handle of the screwdriver the most ? Now if we were to talk about glassfibre bars then we would have a good combination of the properties of both but alas at the expense of weight to get the same characteristics. This article is a good primer on the difference between the materials. Carbon fiber vs aluminium - comprasion

Carbon is inherently "designable" to what ever flex you want. Equally Ali is designable by the extrusion process to bend in a certain manner. Carbon is lighter and stronger and hence its used in bars. It does in my view have downsides, it breaks when over stressed where as Ali will bend, albeit not back to its original form but it will stay intact to get you home. Would I prefer Carbon bars, yup been using them for over 10 years. On this particular setup it would seem the bars I have ( which I had used with great sucess on the Marzocchi's ) were probably too liable to transmit the higher frequency stutter bump vibration resonance in the suspension movement and the replacement Ali bars suited the setup better. Nothing more, nothing less.

Be also aware with any vibration resonance even things like the rubber grips, the brake units, whatever is attached to bars will all change or amplify the resonance, its a very dark art to get sound and vibration sorted.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Where did you hear this?

Marzocchi was bought out by Tenneco in the mid-Aughts. The brand was folded by its owner and then was bought by Fox in the mid-Teens. Current Marzocchi forks are made by Fox.

Manitou was bought out by Answer in the mid-'90s. Answer Manitou was then bought out by Hayes in the mid-Aughts, where it remains.

AFAIK there's been no intersection of Marzocchi and Manitou.

I bow to greater knowledge. Mine was only what was written on a review of the fork I have, I think its contention was that the Manitou and Fox were all made in the same factory and had some common components in the damping stack within the fork. Possibly a bike pundits take on things.

 

[Janc]

We ride a lot of local trails that have cow hoof holes in them and this is awful for stutter bumps in the dry. Apart from suspension setup we find just dropping a couple of PSI to 26 or 27 in the front can vastly improve things. Did a ride yesterday that included hoof depressions and square edge rocks and upped the pressure to 30 to protect the tyres and wheels and really suffered (it was a big ride).