Canyon Grail

[Ducman71]

The Grail:ON CF 8 eTap arrived and I'm pretty stoked about it and although we are still pretty firmly in the grip of winter, I've braced against the cold and took her for a couple of spins. At this point my concerns about the gearing potentially not being low enough have mostly evaporated, and I'm pleased with the sizing, it seems to fit me well (I'm 6'-3.5" 215 lbs. and bought the XL).

The 50mm Schwalbe G-One Bite tires have tons of grip on the few surfaces I've tested but the tread is a bit more pronounced than expected and this makes them a little slower than I was expecting on asphalt and chip seal. The rubber seems really grippy and like it will work well in the wet even though I've seen on-line reviews that these tires are not very suitable for wet conditions. They do feel a little loose when on the edge, even in the dry, but I think this is due to the height of the tread "fingers" that reduce in number towards the edge of the tread. I wonder if people who thought these tires were crap in the wet were fooled by that loose feeling caused by tread squirm? I do think I would like these tires more if they kept a higher density of tread fingers right to the edge of the tread but the reduced density of tread "blocks" near the edge prevents them from letting go suddenly and turns it into a more controllable, progressive feeling.

I plan to eventually try out some Schwalbe G-One Speeds, probably in 40mm as I'm not convinced I need the 50mm width for my intended purposes of backroads, gravel roads and relatively flat paths. I've been riding them in the mid 50's PSI but have reduced them closer to the minimum sidewall pressure of 45 PSI that I'm looking forward to being able to try out. I knew I would appreciate the grip of all those little fingers on slippery surfaces but on high grip surfaces like clean, dry asphalt, they really seem to "fight" each other and slow you down, even when pumped up hard. These are tires I expect to get significantly faster as they wear. I'm a little confused about the pressure rating of these tires because, given their 50 mm width, it seems like they should be able to handle pressures lower than the 45 PSI minimum molded into the sidewall.

The split carbon fiber seat post provides a meaningful amount of help with bumpy terrain without feeling too flexy or nebulous. It actually feels pretty rigid but with the edge taken off harder hits to the bum. One thing to keep in mind if you are in-between frame sizes is that bike sizing will have a very significant effect on how compliant the seat suspension is. My seat post is 65mm above the maximum insertion depth on the scale printed on the seat post and think I would like the feel even better if I could have another 10-15mm exposed (75-80mm on the printed scale). Of course, it must be set where it fits, so those on relatively smaller frames for their inseam will have more (softer) suspension action while the opposite is true for those on relatively larger frames for their inseam length.

I like the cockpit although it's going to take a few rides to train myself to keep my thumbs high when switching to the forward drop position (otherwise they run into the cross-member instead of slipping comfortably over it). It's just a matter of developing the muscle memory when changing grip positions. The bar tape is super nice with the perfect blend of bump absorption without feeling nebulous or too soft. The resiliency of the tape, combined with the carbon bars is very nice in cold weather in terms of not conducting heat away from your hands.

The 160mm brakes seem undersized for my 215 lbs. since I encounter some pretty steep/fast descents, so I'll probably upgrade the front to 180 mm, I would go larger but don't know if that's available. I've barely bedded them in so maybe they will continue to improve.

So far, I'm really sold on the electric derailleur, sweet shifts and super easy to pair with my phone and make micro-adjustments. My enthusiasm could wane if it ever become a hassle but, so far, so good. Battery life is good, so I'm not worried about running out of power on a ride.

The Canyon webpage says it comes with the faster Bosch 4 amp charger but it was shipped with the slower 2 amp charger. When I pointed this out to Canyon, they provided a link where I could order the 4 amp unit and said they would credit my card for the amount. They did say this bike is supposed to ship with the 2 amp unit but the webpage still indicates 4 amps.

As to the power delivery, I can only compare it to my Scott Strike eMTB with its Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 drive unit and 625 Wh battery. The Mountain bike has a more pronounced power hit when getting on it in Turbo mode while the Grail feels more refined and natural with less acceleration, even with its lighter wheels/tires. It's more than adequate but it did surprise me as I was expecting it to feel slightly more powerful, not less. I'm not disappointed in this as it suits the way I intended to ride this bike just fine. It's still very early in my experience with this bike but I'm already more confident that the range of the 500Wh battery will handily exceed that of my 625Wh battery on my eMTB due to the better aero, lighter weight and more efficient tires.

Glad to hear it is working out mostly as you hoped! Tires are so dependent on individual preference and the surface condition/terrain you ride (same as with motos), so it's damn near impossible for a manufacturer to find a tire that satisfies everyone. There is always a compromise. Your points on the tires make sense. All I can add is that when I've done rides solely on pavement, I've been running 60 psi, and at that pressure they roll pretty well for what they are (compared to my expectation). On the other end of the scale, I have run them a bit lower than 45psi for mixed terrain (pavement and dirt) rides, and it feels to me like they could go quite a bit lower on dirt; the feasible low end of the range does depend on rider weight though.

Good catch on the charger. I had not noticed the specs on the website showed the 4A standard charger. I've also found customer service at Canyon to be responsive and easy to work with.

 

[glovemtb77]

Negative. Assuming I understood the pictograph guides correctly, when the stem is flush with the top tube, that *is* the highest level you can go. If you look at the photo below, there are two spacers under the stem. Your only option from here is to lower the bar by removing one or both spacers and replace them with corresponding spacers that sit under the top cap.

View attachment 97929


Yes and yes. 650b is the original name for the standard (originally derived from touring bikes apparently) that eventually became christened as 27.5.

I usually fit a medium or medium-large in mountain bikes and typically ride a 55cm road frame. In the case of Canyon, their website, geometry charts, and various forums seem to concur that their sizing runs large and Medium wouldn't be a good fit (Bummer because I'd really prefer the 700c wheels).

Same problem here with their screwy sizing and putting 275ers on really a medium frame (their size small), in the rest of the known universe, medium. I went with a medium and at 175mm/69"/5'9" will be strecthed out but could not go with those small wheels. (Yes, I understand about 650b's as I was one of the first 2 guys to test them on 26" mtb's from Santa Cruz back in the day. Advocated them for smaller height riders than me in many cases.)
Had and ridden many of them so.....
I have been on 29er frames road and mtb for many years now and will not go to the smaller sized frame that is from a different mold and you could not get a 700cc wheel back there. Really stupid of them to do this.
I liked to be stretched out and the seat height set to minimum at ~714mm will work. The reach should not be bad since the 75mm stem all my other bikes are at 110. We will see when it arrives.

 

[glovemtb77]

Here is a nice read on this weird handlebar So what's the deal with Canyon's unique new Hover bar?

 

[MountainBoy]

Glad to hear it is working out mostly as you hoped! Tires are so dependent on individual preference and the surface condition/terrain you ride (same as with motos), so it's damn near impossible for a manufacturer to find a tire that satisfies everyone. There is always a compromise. Your points on the tires make sense. All I can add is that when I've done rides solely on pavement, I've been running 60 psi, and at that pressure they roll pretty well for what they are (compared to my expectation). On the other end of the scale, I have run them a bit lower than 45psi for mixed terrain (pavement and dirt) rides, and it feels to me like they could go quite a bit lower on dirt; the feasible low end of the range does depend on rider weight though.

Good catch on the charger. I had not noticed the specs on the website showed the 4A standard charger. I've also found customer service at Canyon to be responsive and easy to work with.

The tires seem to have become faster on coarse blacktop and the chipseal I've been riding on with the lowering of pressure to 45/46 psi. I'm not sure if it's the reduced pressure, or the little tread nubbins losing their sharp edges and injection "hairs", or the rubber and fabric layers in the sidewalls becoming more compliant (or a combination of two or more factors). But they do feel quite a bit faster than when new (even though I only have around 120 miles on them).

I'm really liking the way this bike rides, it feels stiff and efficient when pedaled hard, but it has a compliance to it that reduces harshness. Since I'm really between size Large and X-Large (according to Canyon's sizing calculator), and I like roomy bikes, I went with the X-Large. I've flipped the rail clamp at the top of the seatpost 180 degrees to move the saddle forward (but haven't slid the saddle all the way forward in the rails). I also tilted the saddle forward a couple of degrees. This caused me to raise the saddle in the seat tube about 5mm and these changes seemed to make the saddle ride even softer than before.

Other random thoughts about the Grail ON: CF 8 eTap

I've purchased 180 mm front rotors as I found the front brake to be lacking on really steep descents, but I haven't had an opportunity to install the new rotors yet. The range of this bike is impressive, and ECO and TOUR modes provide plenty of assistance for anything but trying to keep up with traffic or climbing really steep hills. I haven't been charging it fully because most of my rides so far in the early season have only been one to one and a half hours. The bike pedals well, even with the motor off, which is a big surprise to me since the Bosch 4th Gen drive unit on my Scott Strike eMTB seems excessively draggy when it's off. Other than the additional weight and slight aero penalty of the large downtube, I don't think there is any additional penalty for having the electric drive unit there.

This is the first time in my life that I've taken aerodynamics seriously in terms of clothing and riding position and it really does make a big difference, especially in windy conditions or at the higher speeds the motor assist encourages. I purchased the Canyon frame bag to hold my pump and other necessities and plan to get a large tail bag for further aero gains. The Canyon frame bag is super slick in that it has "wings" that blend seamlessly with the stem, top tube and seat tube. I feel like this is a really practical road bike for less than ideal pavement and gravel/hardpacked roads/trails, especially for bigger, heavier riders like myself. While it can do the more rugged terrain that is often highlighted in YouTube videos, that is not it's real home, at least not for me. It's a fast bike that unabashedly wears wide tires, an all-purpose bicycle.


Earlier I wrote about trying 40mm Schwalb Speeds but now that the 50mm Schwalb G-One Bites have picked up some speed, I'm thinking I might be happy with some 50 mm Schwalb All-Rounders or maybe even some 50 mm Pirelli Cinturato Gravel-H if I can get past the reports of lack of flat protection. I really do like fast rolling tires, but I also don't like having to stop to fix flats. Maybe the G-One Speeds in 50mm if they have better flat protection than the Pirelli. I think the square blocks of the Cinturato Gravel-H's might encourage more punctures between the blocks.

The eTap shifting is the slickest/quietest I've ever experienced, just effortless. I like the hover bar cockpit and I think the double-decker engineering design softens the vibrations of rough surfaces even when on the hoods. The thin top bar allows the main bar to be less strong/rigid because the top bar supports it by going into tension when taking impacts on the hoods. The result is good shock absorption, even on the hoods, while not feeling mushy or excessively flexy. And I like the way the lower bar supports the thumbs on fast descents.

 

[Ducman71]

For those in the US... Canyon just dropped sale pricing on a number of models throughout the range, and the pricing on the Grail:ON CF7 and CF8 is pretty stunning, below $4k USD. If they have your size, it's a good time to be buying. Thankfully I've quite enjoyed mine over the past few months, otherwise I'd be annoyed by this, as it is considerably less than what I paid. It's a lot of bike for that money.