Can I purchase an M10 for my wife and for the difference in price of the Ltd get same weight or better?

[BobR]

I have a really good shot at getting an M10 in the color/size my wife wants but she is coming from a 23lb. Canyon Lux and wants to be able to ride the Rise w/the power off as well as assisted and is willing to put the money into it to go to as low as reasonable. As she is coming from an XC I know I can get lower on tire choice and there is even the BERD Poly Light spokes laced with a set of carbon hoops and choice of nice hubs... I can purchase the carbon cranks and it already comes w/carbon bars... Can I get close to the Ltd price of $11k US and beat the Ltd weight and hopefully quality? The thread on upgrades inspired me to make this thread. I know you guys have the answers!

 

[Gyre]

A bit of Googling says you'd need to drop greater than 3.3lbs with a budget of $2400 to beat the M-LTD without causing extra complication (I would definitely count BERD spokes as very poor in the complication/$/weight savings department). There's no answer but to pull out a spreadsheet and start churning away at your options.

 

[BobR]

Based on the upgrade thread I am hoping some will share their research for sure... part of what I am doing here is trying to collect the data to show my wife that within range we can get her a bike within a couple months and maybe a little more up to $1k more I am guessing and still getting her the weight she is asking for vs. waiting until next year for an ltd.

 

[Zimmerframe]

If she's coming from XC, she might just need to ride it as is first to get a feel. As far as emtb's go, it's pretty light and doesn't have that wresting with a bear feeling you can have with some of the heavier bikes when descending or working the bike. Most of the extra weight is very low in the frame.

So whilst it's heavier than she's used to, with the motor, that should more than negate that issue.

 

[RickBullotta]

The LTD weight is a bit of a deception - the saddle that comes with it is ABSURDLY expensive but also unrideable for any extended period of time - it's a roadie saddle spec'd to keep the weight down (I sold mine on eBay). And the grips that come spec'd are useless also. Going too light on the tires is always a compromise of course. And as you suggest, a good wheelset is the primary place to save (though if she doesn't like dropper posts, that's an easy place to save weight).

 

[BobR]

She has ridden an M10 and likes it very much but wants it lighter and wants to wait for an Ltd but I can't get her one until next year. I can get her an M10 in a couple months and hoping to make it an Ltd or better for around the same price. She call full fat' mopeds...

 

[BobR]

The LTD weight is a bit of a deception - the saddle that comes with it is ABSURDLY expensive but also unrideable for any extended period of time - it's a roadie saddle spec'd to keep the weight down (I sold mine on eBay). And the grips that come spec'd are useless also. Going too light on the tires is always a compromise of course. And as you suggest, a good wheelset is the primary place to save (though if she doesn't like dropper posts, that's an easy place to save weight).

She loves her dropper post but good idea... I do have the opportunity of explaining, getting to the best usable weight therefore avoiding issues like the saddle (thanks btw, very good data point).

 

[Andyzim]

How much heavier are the 36 forks on the M10 though compared to the 34 on the Ltd?

 

[BobR]

How much heavier are the 36 forks on the M10 though compared to the 34 on the Ltd?

My understanding is that is just an internal spring change but don't quote me on that. My LBS told me that.

 

[Andyzim]

I think it's the uppers are actually bigger on a 36

 

[RickBullotta]

My understanding is that is just an internal spring change but don't quote me on that. My LBS told me that.

Completely different fork. 1/2 pound difference. Also a completely different shock. Again, about a 1/2 pound difference.

However, this isn't just "weight" - the DPX2 is a much more capable shock than the DPS for aggressive riding, and the Fox 36 is obviously a burlier fork, and in Orbea's spec adds 10mm extra front travel.

Compared to the Canyon Lux, the DPS and Fox 34 would be a more similar spec, and would save about a full pound.

 

[Norange]

How much heavier are the 36 forks on the M10 though compared to the 34 on the Ltd?

About 200g. Not much around lighter than a 34 I don't think - not with 150mm travel. You could put a SID on it Can't see it being impossible, but you'll be ebaying a lot of stuff! Definitely light wheelset and tyres. You could go for a smaller range cassette - Rotor 11-39 would save you another 100g. But you'd need an XG freehub so not sure if that's more of a pain.

I'd say buy it, swap out forks and wheels/tyres immediately, then see how you go.

 

[RickBullotta]

About 200g. Not much around lighter than a 34 I don't think - not with 150mm travel. You could put a SID on it Can't see it being impossible, but you'll be ebaying a lot of stuff! Definitely light wheelset and tyres. You could go for a smaller range cassette - Rotor 11-39 would save you another 100g. But you'd need an XG freehub so not sure if that's more of a pain.

I'd say buy it, swap out forks and wheels/tyres immediately, then see how you go.

...and swapping the shock to a DPS is another 200-250g savings. You'd likely be able to see the 36 and the DPX2 for more than the 34 and the DPS cost you.

 

[Norange]

Also, a bike that you can't ride for 9 months is a piece of shit, no matter how much it weighs

 

[BobR]

Completely different fork. 1/2 pound difference. Also a completely different shock. Again, about a 1/2 pound difference.

However, this isn't just "weight" - the DPX2 is a much more capable shock than the DPS for aggressive riding, and the Fox 36 is obviously a burlier fork, and in Orbea's spec adds 10mm extra front travel.

Compared to the Canyon Lux, the DPS and Fox 34 would be a more similar spec, and would save about a full pound.

Very good points Rick... the Fox 34 is on the M20 as well, correct?

 

[BobR]

Also, a bike that you can't ride for 9 months is a piece of shit, no matter how much it weighs

A BIRD IN THE HAND...

 

[RickBullotta]

Very good points Rick... the Fox 34 is on the M20 as well, correct?

Correct, as is the DPS shock.

 

[jka]

Dropping three pounds is a very expensive endeavor on a bike with pretty good parts specs to begin with. It can be done, but I think to get a bike that is really a good ride and not just a super lightweight frankenbike as well as reliable, you're going to spend way more than what you would waiting on an LTD. Superlight wheelset on a 36 pound bike that is meant to be ridden hard isn't going to last very long. Like Rick said, the LTD weight is a bit overblown and when you get parts on it that are really usable (grips, saddle), the weight difference from LTD to M10 is even less. The main thing I look at is that losing 3 pounds from a 40 pound bike is no way in the world like losing 3 pounds on a 26 pound bike. Has she ridden an M10 AND an LTD back to back to compare? I doubt she would really notice a huge difference in the weight between the two. Just my thoughts.

 

[RickBullotta]

Dropping three pounds is a very expensive endeavor on a bike with pretty good parts specs to begin with. It can be done, but I think to get a bike that is really a good ride and not just a super lightweight frankenbike as well as reliable, you're going to spend way more than what you would waiting on an LTD. Superlight wheelset on a 36 pound bike that is meant to be ridden hard isn't going to last very long. Like Rick said, the LTD weight is a bit overblown and when you get parts on it that are really usable (grips, saddle), the weight difference from LTD to M10 is even less. The main thing I look at is that losing 3 pounds from a 40 pound bike is no way in the world like losing 3 pounds on a 26 pound bike. Has she ridden an M10 AND an LTD back to back to compare? I doubt she would really notice a huge difference in the weight between the two. Just my thoughts.

My take is simple for anyone concerned about weight: Go with the Fox 34 and DPS, upgrade the wheelset, and go ride. ;-) If you want to go spendy and add carbon cranks, go for it. But if you swapped with the Fox 34/DPS, you'd actually get money back and save a pound (assuming you could sell the 36 and DPX2 for a decent price)!

 

[BobR]

Dropping three pounds is a very expensive endeavor on a bike with pretty good parts specs to begin with. It can be done, but I think to get a bike that is really a good ride and not just a super lightweight frankenbike as well as reliable, you're going to spend way more than what you would waiting on an LTD. Superlight wheelset on a 36 pound bike that is meant to be ridden hard isn't going to last very long. Like Rick said, the LTD weight is a bit overblown and when you get parts on it that are really usable (grips, saddle), the weight difference from LTD to M10 is even less. The main thing I look at is that losing 3 pounds from a 40 pound bike is no way in the world like losing 3 pounds on a 26 pound bike. Has she ridden an M10 AND an LTD back to back to compare? I doubt she would really notice a huge difference in the weight between the two. Just my thoughts.

No Ltd’s available... and I agree with you btw

 

[BobR]

My take is simple for anyone concerned about weight: Go with the Fox 34 and DPS, upgrade the wheelset, and go ride. ;-) If you want to go spendy and add carbon cranks, go for it. But if you swapped with the Fox 34/DPS, you'd actually get money back and save a pound (assuming you could sell the 36 and DPX2 for a decent price)!

So if I could find an M20 and upgrade from there for what would be best for her... this is all good discussion guys!

 

[BobR]

Completely different fork. 1/2 pound difference. Also a completely different shock. Again, about a 1/2 pound difference.

However, this isn't just "weight" - the DPX2 is a much more capable shock than the DPS for aggressive riding, and the Fox 36 is obviously a burlier fork, and in Orbea's spec adds 10mm extra front travel.

Compared to the Canyon Lux, the DPS and Fox 34 would be a more similar spec, and would save about a full pound.

To be fair to my LBS they said they could change the travel on the 36 so not about reducing weight on their part

 

[flash]

The simple reality is she almost certainly won't ride with the motor off, even if she thinks she will now. I have ridden my eZesty exactly zero times without the battery and that bike is designed to be ridden without the battery and motor. I bought the sleeve and everything. If you wanted a ride like that you'd get the Trek. Anyway the Shimano motor has little resistance but it does not feel like a traditional bottom bracket.

Set up the 2nd profile at the absolute minimum assistance levels and you'll just be providing enough power to get rid of the extra weight and it'll feel pretty natural with a lot of rider input. And the battery will last forever.

If she must have a bike with no assistance keep an acoustic in the shed.

Gordon

 

[RickBullotta]

To be fair to my LBS they said they could change the travel on the 36 so not about reducing weight on their part

IMO the 150mm fork makes for a better balanced bike.

 

[Pdoz]

My lbs has indicated that if an m10 they have on order hasn't been built yet , they can phone and change the spec ( within reason) to suit what I prefer. Have you considered getting the m10 you have an option on but opting for lighter parts

 

[Jcolborn48]

Bob, if you end up swapping the suspension out, I have a brand new Fox 34 and DPS that came off my Levo SL .

 

[BobR]

Bob, if you end up swapping the suspension out, I have a brand new Fox 34 and DPS that came off my Levo SL .

Appreciate that! All good points for consideration!

My lbs has indicated that if an m10 they have on order hasn't been built yet , they can phone and change the spec ( within reason) to suit what I prefer. Have you considered getting the m10 you have an option on but opting for lighter parts

i have not locked in on the M10 yet but with all these great points I might be!

 

[Chicane]

Bob, if you end up swapping the suspension out, I have a brand new Fox 34 and DPS that came off my Levo SL .

FYI, This Fox 34 has cast lowers(heavier than Factory 34) and it's built Ebike specific, which means heavier all around. I'm guessing it weighs similar to the Fox 36 Factory that comes stock on the M10.

 

[soundwave]

How about an 'eXC' like Trek's E-Caliber instead?

 

[Bigtuna00]

How about an 'eXC' like Trek's E-Caliber instead?

As much as I'd love to recommend the Rise, this may actually be the perfect fit for your wife. The M-LTD is decently light (~38lbs), and can be made about a pound lighter reasonably, but the E-Caliber claims to be 33lbs with the XTR build. There's no way you're going to get a Rise that light. Both have way more power than the Levo SL too.