Bullit Battery Range… So Disappointed

[Heysy100]

I’ve read a couple of threads below guys and so don’t want to just repeat previous discussion. But…..

Here’s my issue. I live in the Peak District. Hayfield/Hope/Edale is my back yard… basically not easy riding.

Today my Bullit XO1, died after 29km and 900m of climb…

I’m staggered. Frustrated an understatement.

It’s consistently poor. I’m a normal height and weight, riding 95% in Eco and it’s just shocking…..

I’ve not explored the app or a adjusting the settings and perhaps that’s now the only option but I’m reluctant. Why should I down grade the factory settings….It seems a solution papering the cracks if the bike and set up aren’t fit for purpose.

I guess my plea is to understand whether ive a anomaly of a bike and somethings wrong or is this standard… if it’s standard I’m amazed people are happy at a £10k price tag.

Some general thoughts would be great!

 

[Doomanic]

Use the app and check the settings; my mate's bullet was set up with more power in Eco than a Rise has in Turbo!

 

[Doomanic]

I did this ride on 40-60% of battery last week. I can't be more accurate than that, it was still showing 3 bars on the display but I don't know how close it was to dropping to 2. That was a Commencal Meta with the EP8 and 630Wh battery. Rides was all fireroads and at clockwork pace but I was still impressed compared to what I've seen from my mate's Bullit.

 

[VWsurfbum]

You a 100% need to get in the app and adjust the settings. the factory settings from Santa Cruz set it up so you have the wow factor out of the box but thats no good for normal riding where you actually need it to last.

 

[DJ57UMP]

Today my Bullit XO1, died after 29km and 900m of climb…

I had to convert as I'm in miles and feet... so 18+ miles and 2900+ foot of climbing.

It's my experience that distance isn't the biggest factor. Neither is when you are on a trail and pinning it. The biggest factor for me is climbing. I have a Heckler MX, EP8 with the smaller 504 battery.

I look at a planned ride and I know that with my detuned Heckler MX I get around 3000ft of climbing at most.

So for example if somebody was to say to me they were going to go do a 20 mile 2900ft ride I'd be happy to join them but I'd know I'd be at the limit of my range.

Now let's think about you and your bike...
- You say you are average size etc so that's a plus over me - so more range.
- Your bike is a long travel jobby - it's the equivalent of the Nomad, where mine is more 5010 - so plus for me and less range for you

What I'm trying to say is I think 3000ft of climbing on a Nomad travel bike is decent. I'd take it and have a smile from ear to ear for the descents. But as @VWsurfbum says if you de-tune the assistance as I have on my MX you'll find you get more range and the bike might even feel better (I know my Heckler with full kick in Eco was a bit too much).

Anwyay, I'd be buying a Bullit tomorrow if there was one in stock - so count yourself lucky and go ride!

 

[Heysy100]

I had to convert as I'm in miles and feet... so 18+ miles and 2900+ foot of climbing.

It's my experience that distance isn't the biggest factor. Neither is when you are on a trail and pinning it. The biggest factor for me is climbing. I have a Heckler MX, EP8 with the smaller 504 battery.

I look at a planned ride and I know that with my detuned Heckler MX I get around 3000ft of climbing at most.

So for example if somebody was to say to me they were going to go do a 20 mile 2900ft ride I'd be happy to join them but I'd know I'd be at the limit of my range.

Now let's think about you and your bike...
- You say you are average size etc so that's a plus over me - so more range.
- Your bike is a long travel jobby - it's the equivalent of the Nomad, where mine is more 5010 - so plus for me and less range for you

What I'm trying to say is I think 3000ft of climbing on a Nomad travel bike is decent. I'd take it and have a smile from ear to ear for the descents. But as @VWsurfbum says if you de-tune the assistance as I have on my MX you'll find you get more range and the bike might even feel better (I know my Heckler with full kick in Eco was a bit too much).

Anwyay, I'd be buying a Bullit tomorrow if there was one in stock - so count yourself lucky and go ride!

Thanks for that…. It’s fair what you write!! I guess I just thought I’d ride harder and go further than I could on my Bronson (my other bike) and just feel a bit Mis sold……

The bike is incredible, of that there is no doubt!! But the 50k 4 hour ride in the peaks I thought I was buying is a myth!! It seems it’s just a more pleasurable experience but there’s a cap on the time you can be out…. Just a shame.

I’ll try the app and see what the ‘de-tune’ gives me….

 

[DJ57UMP]

Thanks for that…. It’s fair what you write!! I guess I just thought I’d ride harder and go further than I could on my Bronson (my other bike) and just feel a bit Mis sold……

The bike is incredible, of that there is no doubt!! But the 50k 4 hour ride in the peaks I thought I was buying is a myth!! It seems it’s just a more pleasurable experience but there’s a cap on the time you can be out…. Just a shame.

I’ll try the app and see what the ‘de-tune’ gives me….

And you do make a good point. The video of the Heckler form Santa Cruz over in Downieville quotes rides of 40km and 5000ft of climbing. It's kind of what sold the idea of the bike to me. Not sure if I'd say miss-selling but definitely some of the promotional goods on ebikes is on the optimistic side.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Also worth looking at the tyres - they come with MaxxGrip out the box I think? If you were happy to change those out to the MaxTerra no doubt you'll be able to get a bit more range. The MaxxGrip are really quite draggy.

 

[JetSetDemo]

I’ve read a couple of threads below guys and so don’t want to just repeat previous discussion. But…..

Here’s my issue. I live in the Peak District. Hayfield/Hope/Edale is my back yard… basically not easy riding.

Today my Bullit XO1, died after 29km and 900m of climb…

I’m staggered. Frustrated an understatement.

It’s consistently poor. I’m a normal height and weight, riding 95% in Eco and it’s just shocking…..

I’ve not explored the app or a adjusting the settings and perhaps that’s now the only option but I’m reluctant. Why should I down grade the factory settings….It seems a solution papering the cracks if the bike and set up aren’t fit for purpose.

I guess my plea is to understand whether ive a anomaly of a bike and somethings wrong or is this standard… if it’s standard I’m amazed people are happy at a £10k price tag.

Some general thoughts would be great!

Hi I am @Doomanic ’s mate with the bullet and my experience and feeling is almost exactly as you have found, so you are not alone/

I am 80kg and 5.9 on a medium and struggle to get much more distance than you have been able to get running mostly in eco.

I do love the bike it’s just the ep8 system is not a patch on my Levo with 700 battery (reliability aside).

I am just south of the peaks and ride a lot solo in the peaks when I’m not meeting up further south, maybe it would be good to hit cut gate and Ladybower together in the new year for a comparison/bitch and moan about the range.

 

[Heysy100]

Also worth looking at the tyres - they come with MaxxGrip out the box I think? If you were happy to change those out to the MaxTerra no doubt you'll be able to get a bit more range. The MaxxGrip are really quite draggy.

Yeah I’ve seen lots of chat on that…. I’ll see what I get with the app changes then think of tyres. Thanks chaps.

 

[Mungalot]

I usually only use 2-3 bars on 2.5 to 4k ft climbing rides on mostly trail mode. Have you kept updating your firmware and have you checked for any brake rub?

 

[RustyIron]

Today my Bullit XO1, died after 29km and 900m of climb…

I'm on a Heckler MX X01, with the 504wh battery. My experience is completely different than what you describe.
Here are some of my recent rides

10/14/2021 22.37 miles 3552 feet 50% battery remaining

10/16/2021 15.32 miles 3169 feet 50% battery remaining
On this ride, my buddy was on an Orbea Rise. He was also showing 50% battery remaining.

10/06/2021 23.64 miles 3854 feet Remaining Range showed 2 miles left on the battery.
On this ride, I was shredding fast in the uphill, so draining the battery was no surprise.

Running a DHR II Maxx-Terra and a DHF Maxx-Grip on the front.

 

[Mteam]

Thats not much range/altitude. I have a couple of mates with the canyon spectral on with the ep8 and 630wh battery, they can easily get 50km and 5000 feet using a combination of eco and trail they have ~10% left . This is also in the peak district

Your low range can only be a combination of draggy tyres and santa cruz default assist settings being on the high side (if other people have checked and they are not set the same as shimanos out of the box defaults) - surely its got to be mostly due to the assist settings being high.

 

[Richwall]

Defo need to get in the app & dial things back, i was the same after my first ride on the Bullit. After dialling things down and ditching the Maxx grip Assegai for a Max Terra Dhf I did this ride in the peaks & got back to the car with 1 mile range not bad considering im 6ft & 16 st.

 

[Heysy100]

Thats not much range/altitude. I have a couple of mates with the canyon spectral on with the ep8 and 630wh battery, they can easily get 50km and 5000 feet using a combination of eco and trail they have ~10% left . This is also in the peak district

Your low range can only be a combination of draggy tyres and santa cruz default assist settings being on the high side (if other people have checked and they are not set the same as shimanos out of the box defaults) - surely its got to be mostly due to the assist settings being high.

Yeah… 900m and 29km….. just crazy. Next stop, the App and try to reduce the assistance…..

 

[RustyIron]

Next stop, the App and try to reduce the assistance…..

I thought of you today as I finished my ride. It was 15.6 miles, 3350 feet of climbing,. The first 23 of the ride was in my Profile 2 Eco mode, and the last 1/3 of the ride was in Trail and Boost modes. At the end of the ride, I had 37% battery remaining.

I'm attaching a pic of my assist profiles. Profile 1 is my "Serious" profile, for those rides that are going to be long and in the remote wilderness. Profile 2 is my "Play" profile, for those rides that don't require a lot of commitment, like today's.

Figuring out how to sync your phone to Shimano's eTube app might take 5 or 10 minutes the first time you do it. Actually changing the assist profiles takes less than 5 minutes. You really need to get on this, as everything is just random guesses until you're certain how your assist profiles are programmed.

You should copy my profiles and spend most of your time in Eco mode, until you figure out how this whole eMTB thing works.

 

[Mungalot]

Ok, the stock profile 2 that is stock on the 2021 ep8 Santa Cruz bullit has plenty of range period. That’s it.

 

[Gavalar]

Santa Cruz have always sold snake oil.

 

[Coolcmsc]

I hope the new settings and a tyre if you can afford/find that sort things out.
I’m 65, not very fit and plagued by arthritis, but I have started to work out how to ride an emtb (Levo then Bullit). In truth, the main difference with a tyre change up front on the Bullit on the same trails (Edale Peak’s my local too), is that the battery is bigger in the Levo. I adjusted both motors to my style with their apps.
I manage quite a lot more on my Bullit than your data suggests with that change in settings and a front DHF.
At Dalby, I can routinely get to 46 km and whatever the height is (~2500ft?) before changing the battery on the second circuit. I’ve put some Peak District data below too.
I found that changing the Assegai to DHF (but still MaxGrip as that was all I could find) helped. I did a little free-rolling test down a gravel slope to an unaided stop through friction before and after changing the front wheel and I rolled 30% further on the DHF. That’s not scientific, but it shows the DHF is less sticky.
In the Peaks, I’m getting similar figures as @Richwall (see above).
For bigger expeditions, for example Langset over CutGate all around the Edale Peaks and back, I bought a second battery.
Here are two expeditions in the Peak from Strava. I changed battery when the first cut out, which is not good for them I’ve put an arrow where I changed the battery.
I changed the battery during the first just after the shepherds shelter at Grindle Clough above Ladybower when I’d done about 40km and about 3900ft climbing (arrow). When I finished roughly 7km later I’d used maybe 5% of the second battery - for example after the battery change, for the downhill parts, most of the time I was at or over 25kph not using the battery at all.
And I don’t race up hill in Boost, as you can see from my average speed, which also shows I ride consistently between the two expeditions over the same trails. Also, my average power is similar between the two, which is intentional and includes trying to maintain cadance by changing gears rather than power mode.
I changed the battery during the second trip at the start of the Lockerbrook run (arrow). I can’t remember how far I’d gone/height climbed when I swapped - you can guess as you know the area. Anyway, there was 60% left after many more Km, including a trip up the steep climb through Grindle Clough, a rather circuitous climb back up to Win Hill and the trip down the Roman road and then tarmac to a field outside Castletown where I started.

 

[lnnaie]

I’ve read a couple of threads below guys and so don’t want to just repeat previous discussion. But…..

Here’s my issue. I live in the Peak District. Hayfield/Hope/Edale is my back yard… basically not easy riding.

Today my Bullit XO1, died after 29km and 900m of climb…

I’m staggered. Frustrated an understatement.

It’s consistently poor. I’m a normal height and weight, riding 95% in Eco and it’s just shocking…..

I’ve not explored the app or a adjusting the settings and perhaps that’s now the only option but I’m reluctant. Why should I down grade the factory settings….It seems a solution papering the cracks if the bike and set up aren’t fit for purpose.

I guess my plea is to understand whether ive a anomaly of a bike and somethings wrong or is this standard… if it’s standard I’m amazed people are happy at a £10k price tag.

Some general thoughts would be great!

I got cannondale moterra with bosch. Does better than yours in km. But going up it’s also a problem. I have to keep it in echo mode (the cheapest mode) and do the workout to have it going for longer. It’s the norm for this ebike generation.

 

[seamarsh]

Gotta keep your cadence high to get most from battery. Keep it 80-90 range. I get 4200 feet of climbing on my decoy in trail mode set to full power on a 540wah e8000. I use heavy tires and coil front and rear! It’s about 56lbs. You should not have to change tires..that’s crazy.

you have to put in effort on ebikes and cadence is key.. if you are being lazy with the pedals you can suck the power down in no time.

also think of feet or meters climbed not miles.. my rides are all under 20 miles but I’ll hit the 4200’ consistently..

 

[1oldfart]

What is the size of the battery?
How many pounds do you weight?
--- Using your transmission is key.

 

[Emailsucks98]

Based on my Norco Sight VLT with SHimano E8000 and 630 battery:

Don’t leave your bike charging overnight. Using a Garmin+ Shimano EW-En100 I discovered my battery drops to 89% if I leave it plugged in overnight, but 100% if I charge it just 3.5hrs.

Eco isn’t neccesarily saving you battery. There’s a local 100’ climb and I’ve found I use the same amount of battery in Eco & Trail modes. Seems like the trick is to keep your cadence up.

Weight makes a huge difference. My lightweight girlfriend gets endless range on her Turbo Levo. I weigh 185lbs and regularly get 4750’ vert using trail mode and not worrying about it too much. Definitely use the app- I like setting Eco up as higher in power, and Boost turned all the way down, so all 3 settings are relatively close in range.

 

[seamarsh]

Based on my Norco Sight VLT with SHimano E8000 and 630 battery:

Don’t leave your bike charging overnight. Using a Garmin+ Shimano EW-En100 I discovered my battery drops to 89% if I leave it plugged in overnight, but 100% if I charge it just 3.5hrs.

Eco isn’t neccesarily saving you battery. There’s a local 100’ climb and I’ve found I use the same amount of battery in Eco & Trail modes. Seems like the trick is to keep your cadence up.

Weight makes a huge difference. My lightweight girlfriend gets endless range on her Turbo Levo. I weigh 185lbs and regularly get 4750’ vert using trail mode and not worrying about it too much. Definitely use the app- I like setting Eco up as higher in power, and Boost turned all the way down, so all 3 settings are relatively close in range.

Cool, interesting info about the battery droppage! Ill have to try that.

 

[frizz]

I’ve read a couple of threads below guys and so don’t want to just repeat previous discussion. But…..

Here’s my issue. I live in the Peak District. Hayfield/Hope/Edale is my back yard… basically not easy riding.

Today my Bullit XO1, died after 29km and 900m of climb…

I’m staggered. Frustrated an understatement.

It’s consistently poor. I’m a normal height and weight, riding 95% in Eco and it’s just shocking…..

I’ve not explored the app or a adjusting the settings and perhaps that’s now the only option but I’m reluctant. Why should I down grade the factory settings….It seems a solution papering the cracks if the bike and set up aren’t fit for purpose.

I guess my plea is to understand whether ive a anomaly of a bike and somethings wrong or is this standard… if it’s standard I’m amazed people are happy at a £10k price tag.

Some general thoughts would be great!

I weigh 115kgs and I recently did this ride. Did the first 700m in ECO and the last 300m in Boost. Still had 49% battery.

I

 

[seamarsh]

Most surprising thing about this thread is how many poeple ride in ECO! Wtf! Trail/emtb mode for the win!

i added a 34t chainring because 36 were out of stock, seems to help keep the cadence up!/)

 

[Madmountainman]

I'm 1.98m, 117kg and pretty fit for my age and weight penalty. I test rode the Heckler at FoD, mostly in Trail/Boost to see how quick I could burn out the range and got 20 miles with over 3000 feet of climbing. At the end of the test ride I was showing two bars, but had been on that for a while. I've always used high cadence to spin in order to counter my physical size going uphill, so the Shimano system suits me. Fitness plays a huge role in e-bike range. Put more effort in, get more range. I found I was overwhelming the motor when really cranking the power down, so there's an obvious sweet spot for the motor. The 504 battery and E8000 just wasn't enough for me so I waited and then the Bullit appeared. The order went straight in as the bike's got one of the best geo's for taller riders, has a great all up weight limit and the larger battery should give me the right range for full fat fun on my local trails and I can adjust the settings for more range when i'm out on longer trail rides. I've also ordered a spare battery for those all day epics. Now all i've got to do is patiently wait for an XXL XT to finally arrive at my LBS.

 

[Heysy100]

So this was my factory settings….. what do the coloured dots mean please?? Do you adjust those as well as the blue ‘power’ dot?! Sorry if that’s a stupid question but I’m completely in dark….

 

[Heysy100]

So this was my factory settings….. what do the coloured dots mean please?? Do you adjust those as well as the blue ‘power’ dot?! Sorry if that’s a stupid question but I’m completely in dark….

View attachment 74500

Sorry…. Sussed it. They are the other modes…..

 

[seamarsh]

I forgot to mention the biggest battery suck for me is starting and stopping.. especially on technical up hills! That initial burst of energy really taxes the battery.