Brose or Bosch ?

[cousin jack]

hi all. I've had a levo 2019 hardtail for around 18 months(2000 miles clocked) and enjoyed every minute without any issues.
I find myself wanting to upgrade, but am torn between the spesh brose motor and the bosch gen 4.
The brose albeit the smaller 1.2 on my HT has been both reliable and extremely quiet, so was really tempted to go for the 2020 levo comp.
However, when browsing around I soon realised that for the top of my budget( £5-6k) I could have a much higher specced bike but would have to accept a change to the new bosch motor.
I had a quick spin on an Orbea Wild FS (bosch gen 4), and was disappointed with the much noisier motor than what I've been used to. Also I tend to do longer rides, so nothing less than 625wh and 29er wheels preferred.
I would definitely like to purchase from a local bike shop (Cornwall hasn't got many), so I've shortlisted it down to these.
1. Turbo levo comp 2020.
2.Trek rail
3.Cube stereo hybrid
4.Focus jam2
Any comments or opinions would be great.

 

[Bearing Man]

Buy with your heart, buy the bike that inspires you, the bike that you want to look at in the garage, the bike you don't care what noise it's making because you just love it!

 

[mak]

I've got a cube 140 race bosch gen 4 motor, with the 85nm upgrade its perfect, plenty of power all through the cadence range in eco, tour mode is nuts, you still have 2 more modes and there no friction past the limit . If your willing to put the effort in you can achieve over 70 miles of range on the gen 4 over several rides.

There's no dream YouTube bike parks or trails near where I live unfortunately, I just make the best of what I have so with regards to suspension I don't wont to be bobbing up and down on a 160 bike wasting energy.

The bosch 4 has been faultless over 11 months and 1900 miles, so much so I've just upgraded to another bosch 4 motor bike ( cube 140 AT) not delivered yet but cant wait 5-6k is a decent budget so make it count .

 

[JoeBlow]

Reliability issues aside it has to be Bosch for me. Yes it's a little on the noisy side but not excessively so and in any case that's a small price to pay for the immediacy of the response on steep, gnarly, technical uphill trails where, lets face it, you get the most benefit from a motor. The Gen4 motor with the 85nm patch is far better in this regard than the Gen3 and I find myself using EMTB mode most of the time as this seems to be responsive and convenient. I can get up trails with the Gen4 that I could not get up with the Gen3 on my Trek.

Al

 

[Bearing Man]

Don't forget the Gen 3 was only ever fitted into road bikes. Your Trek had a Gen 2

 

[JoeBlow]

Don't forget the Gen 3 was only ever fitted into road bikes. Your Trek had a Gen 2

I can't forget, I never knew in the first place. Thanks for that. Apart from it being slightly noisier I'm not too keen on the displays on offer and much prefer the minimalist Brose approach.

Al

 

[PhilBaker]

I have the Bosch and the "rattle" is a minor thing in my view. I ride with lot's of Levo's and their Brose motor's definitely sound quieter than mine and they are pretty much all on their second or third motor.

If noise is. big thing for you, then you could prioritise the Brose motor, but for most people I don't think this should be a major concern...

 

[Beekeeper]

Don't forget the Gen 3 was only ever fitted into road bikes. Your Trek had a Gen 2

Surely some new Cube mountain bikes have Gen 3 motors like this one.... 65nm of torque

 

[Forever Wild]

Buy with your hart, buy the bike that inspires you, the bike that you want to look at in the garage, the bike you don't care what noise it's making because you just love it!

This!
I have both motors. I like them both for different reasons.

 

[Hamina]

I have GEN4 Bosch and I don't remember anymore if it makes any additional sounds.

 

[Bearing Man]

Surely some new Cube mountain bikes have Gen 3 motors like this one.... 65nm of torque

View attachment 45891

Dare I say with controversy, this is technically a "Trail" or "Gravel" bike and not really intended for going up the side of a mountain, hence 65Nm.
The only reason I am so passionate about this is because Bosch went straight from Gen 2 to Gen 4 on 99% of off road bikes, so many people think they have a Gen 3 motor. When people email us or phone up for help and I am trying to diagnose a problem on their "Gen 3" or sell them parts for their "Gen 3" (and most people are absolutely amendment that their motor is a "Gen 3"), 9 times out of 10 it's a Gen 2! and I have wasted another half hour talking about the wrong motor!
Bosch Gen 1 "Classic" 2010 - 2014 (Mostly road bikes, very few mountain bikes)
Bosch Gen 2 "Active Line", "Performance Line" 2014 - 2016 (road bikes and mountain bikes)
Bosch Gen 2 "Performance Line CX" 2016 - 2019(mountain bikes)
Bosch Gen 3 "Active Line", "Active Line PLUS" and "Performance Line" 2018 to current day (Road bikes and trail/gravel bikes)
Bosch Gen 4 "Performance Line CX" 2020 to current day (Mountain bikes)

Note the big chainring on the Bosch Gen 3 in the picture, if your motor has a small 15 or 16 tooth front chainring...IT'S NOT A GEN 3!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Note the big chainring on the Bosch Gen 3 in the picture, if your motor has a small 15 or 16 tooth front chainring...IT'S NOT A GEN 3!

OK, So I've checked, I have the big chain ring on my Kenevo, so that's the Gen 3 right ? Can I have your number and let me know when it's least convenient to call for an hour to discuss any future requirements I may or may not have. Thanks, Zim.

 

[Bearing Man]

OK, So I've checked, I have the big chain ring on my Kenevo, so that's the Gen 3 right ? Can I have your number and let me know when it's least convenient to call for an hour to discuss any future requirements I may or may not have. Thanks, Zim.

Exactly! ?

 

[Beekeeper]

hi all. I've had a levo 2019 hardtail for around 18 months(2000 miles clocked) and enjoyed every minute without any issues.
I find myself wanting to upgrade, but am torn between the spesh brose motor and the bosch gen 4.
The brose albeit the smaller 1.2 on my HT has been both reliable and extremely quiet, so was really tempted to go for the 2020 levo comp.
However, when browsing around I soon realised that for the top of my budget( £5-6k) I could have a much higher specced bike but would have to accept a change to the new bosch motor.
I had a quick spin on an Orbea Wild FS (bosch gen 4), and was disappointed with the much noisier motor than what I've been used to. Also I tend to do longer rides, so nothing less than 625wh and 29er wheels preferred.
I would definitely like to purchase from a local bike shop (Cornwall hasn't got many), so I've shortlisted it down to these.
1. Turbo levo comp 2020.
2.Trek rail
3.Cube stereo hybrid
4.Focus jam2
Any comments or opinions would be great.

From a current cube hardtail, I like the look of the Focus Jam2.

Dare I say with controversy, this is technically a "Trail" or "Gravel" bike and not really intended for going up the side of a mountain, hence 65Nm.
The only reason I am so passionate about this is because Bosch went straight from Gen 2 to Gen 4 on 99% of off road bikes, so many people think they have a Gen 3 motor. When people email us or phone up for help and I am trying to diagnose a problem on their "Gen 3" or sell them parts for their "Gen 3" (and most people are absolutely amendment that their motor is a "Gen 3"), 9 times out of 10 it's a Gen 2! and I have wasted another half hour talking about the wrong motor!
Bosch Gen 1 "Classic" 2010 - 2014 (Mostly road bikes, very few mountain bikes)
Bosch Gen 2 "Active Line", "Performance Line" 2014 - 2016 (road bikes and mountain bikes)
Bosch Gen 2 "Performance Line CX" 2016 - 2019(mountain bikes)
Bosch Gen 3 "Active Line", "Active Line PLUS" and "Performance Line" 2018 to current day (Road bikes and trail/gravel bikes)
Bosch Gen 4 "Performance Line CX" 2020 to current day (Mountain bikes)

Note the big chainring on the Bosch Gen 3 in the picture, if your motor has a small 15 or 16 tooth front chainring...IT'S NOT A GEN 3!

View attachment 45911

So presumably when Bosch eventually update their Gen 3 it will be called a Gen 5 ?
I think you will need to disconnect your phone in future years

 

[Bearing Man]

So presumably when Bosch eventually update their Gen 3 it will be called a Gen 5 ?
I think you will need to disconnect your phone in future years
[/QUOTE]
It's already so messy with a few different Active lines and a few different Performance Lines, then a load of "Gens" all in different order!! ??

 

[Beekeeper]

So presumably when Bosch eventually update their Gen 3 it will be called a Gen 5 ?
I think you will need to disconnect your phone in future years

It's already so messy with a few different Active lines and a few different Performance Lines, then a load of "Gens" all in different order!! ??
[/QUOTE]


At least you repair motors and not iPhones.
You would not only be faced with Gens 3-12 but also have S, GS, C, Plus, SE, X, XS, Max, Pro, ProMax and Mini to deal with ?
Fortunately I’ve never had a bearing fail yet on a smart phone

 

[jb3112]

What about range on brose vs Bosch
Is there snu difference om consumption
Om looking on turbo levo with 500wh and cube Bosch cx gen4 with 625wh

 

[Rusty]

What about range on brose vs Bosch
Is there snu difference om consumption
Om looking on turbo levo with 500wh and cube Bosch cx gen4 with 625wh

I have run a 2019 Scott with Shimano e8000, 2019 Levo Comp with Brose and 2020 Scott with Bosch G4.
I did not like the Brose as much as I thought I would and like many had a belt failure with only a few hundred kms on the clock. Over an average range of country there is not a hell of a lot between them really.
On my 45km loop I am in Eco mostly and use Trail on the hilly bits with Turbo only sparingly when I hit a couple pinch climbs. I do even turn off for about 1.5 - 2km where the trail is a slight decline.
With the Shimano and 504Wh battery I was running short and only getting around 40-42km.
On the Levo with the 700Wh battery I was completeing the loop and had a few % left in reserve.
The Bosch with the 625Wh battery is run mainly in Eco or Tour and EMTB for the pinch climbs and I can complete the loop with 1-5% remaining. I have recently been using Tour a little more and find the results only slightly different.

In your case of the 500Wh on the Brose or 625Wh with the Bosch I expect you will get more range on the Cube, solely due to the slightly bigger battery.

 

[jb3112]

I have run a 2019 Scott with Shimano e8000, 2019 Levo Comp with Brose and 2020 Scott with Bosch G4.
I did not like the Brose as much as I thought I would and like many had a belt failure with only a few hundred kms on the clock. Over an average range of country there is not a hell of a lot between them really.
On my 45km loop I am in Eco mostly and use Trail on the hilly bits with Turbo only sparingly when I hit a couple pinch climbs. I do even turn off for about 1.5 - 2km where the trail is a slight decline.
With the Shimano and 504Wh battery I was running short and only getting around 40-42km.
On the Levo with the 700Wh battery I was completeing the loop and had a few % left in reserve.
The Bosch with the 625Wh battery is run mainly in Eco or Tour and EMTB for the pinch climbs and I can complete the loop with 1-5% remaining. I have recently been using Tour a little more and find the results only slightly different.

In your case of the 500Wh on the Brose or 625Wh with the Bosch I expect you will get more range on the Cube, solely due to the slightly bigger battery.

So you get almost the same consumption on brose and Bosch

 

[Rusty]

Per W/h there is a not a lot of difference ... for Me. I got marginally more with the 700Wh battery on the Brose than I do with the 625 on the Bosch. With the 500Wh battery in the Brose I was not a lot different from the 504Wh in the Shimano.
I am a big unit at around 112kg and ride fairly agressively so my results will differ with others.

 

[jb3112]

Per W/h there is a not a lot of difference ... for Me. I got marginally more with the 700Wh battery on the Brose than I do with the 625 on the Bosch. With the 500Wh battery in the Brose I was not a lot different from the 504Wh in the Shimano.
I am a big unit at around 112kg and ride fairly agressively so my results will differ with others.

Thank you
Relay god reply

 

[jb3112]

I have run a 2019 Scott with Shimano e8000, 2019 Levo Comp with Brose and 2020 Scott with Bosch G4.
I did not like the Brose as much as I thought I would and like many had a belt failure with only a few hundred kms on the clock. Over an average range of country there is not a hell of a lot between them really.
On my 45km loop I am in Eco mostly and use Trail on the hilly bits with Turbo only sparingly when I hit a couple pinch climbs. I do even turn off for about 1.5 - 2km where the trail is a slight decline.
With the Shimano and 504Wh battery I was running short and only getting around 40-42km.
On the Levo with the 700Wh battery I was completeing the loop and had a few % left in reserve.
The Bosch with the 625Wh battery is run mainly in Eco or Tour and EMTB for the pinch climbs and I can complete the loop with 1-5% remaining. I have recently been using Tour a little more and find the results only slightly different.

In your case of the 500Wh on the Brose or 625Wh with the Bosch I expect you will get more range on the Cube, solely due to the slightly bigger battery.

Power and feel what motor du you prefer

 

[Rusty]

I actually thought the Shimano e8000 was the more natural feeling of the three. However, occasionally it felt a little weak. I sort of liked the Brose but found when I go to 30kph that I could not pedal through the 32kph limit as I could on the Shimano. The Bosch is not as good as the Shimano in that respect but better than the Brose.
I would have to say that overall I prefer the Bosch given the range of riding I do. I think that could be a little biased over the Shimano due to the larger battery. Both the Shimano and Bosch were in Scott Genius eRide bikes with similar geometry, which I prefer over the Levo. I also prefer the Fox suspension and Shimano brakes on the Scotts over the Rockshox/SRAM brakes on the Levo, which of course can colour ones opinion.

 

[Forever Wild]

hi all. I've had a levo 2019 hardtail for around 18 months(2000 miles clocked) and enjoyed every minute without any issues.
I find myself wanting to upgrade, but am torn between the spesh brose motor and the bosch gen 4.
The brose albeit the smaller 1.2 on my HT has been both reliable and extremely quiet, so was really tempted to go for the 2020 levo comp.
However, when browsing around I soon realised that for the top of my budget( £5-6k) I could have a much higher specced bike but would have to accept a change to the new bosch motor.
I had a quick spin on an Orbea Wild FS (bosch gen 4), and was disappointed with the much noisier motor than what I've been used to. Also I tend to do longer rides, so nothing less than 625wh and 29er wheels preferred.
I would definitely like to purchase from a local bike shop (Cornwall hasn't got many), so I've shortlisted it down to these.
1. Turbo levo comp 2020.
2.Trek rail
3.Cube stereo hybrid
4.Focus jam2
Any comments or opinions would be great.

I own a gen 2 Bosch. It’s noisy but power is good and I feel confident it won’t fail (maybe just a feeling). I like my brose 1.2e. Power is good; It’s supposed to have less power than my Bosch but i seriously can’t tell. It feels just as strong and I find them both adequate and i don’t need more power ( even when routinely climbing 22% grades).

The brose is silent but.... it makes a weird sound for a few seconds after I stop pedaling in high cadence (I generally ride with high cadence). At low cadence I don’t hear the sound. Sounds like a bearing or a belt. It’s making me think it’s about to have an issue. Anyone else experience this. @Bearing Man ... is this a problem?

My next bike will have a shimano or Yamaha motor.

I’m done with the German engineering for now. Trying the Japanese engineering next. ?

 

[Bearing Man]

I own a gen 2 Bosch. It’s noisy but power is good and I feel confident it won’t fail (maybe just a feeling). I like my brose 1.2e. Power is good; It’s supposed to have less power than my Bosch but i seriously can’t tell. It feels just as strong and I find them both adequate and i don’t need more power ( even when routinely climbing 22% grades).

The brose is silent but.... it makes a weird sound for a few seconds after I stop pedaling in high cadence (I generally ride with high cadence). At low cadence I don’t hear the sound. Sounds like a bearing or a belt. It’s making me think it’s about to have an issue. Anyone else experience this. @Bearing Man ... is this a problem?

My next bike will have a shimano or Yamaha motor.

I’m done with the German engineering for now. Trying the Japanese engineering next. ?

This is usually signalling the beginning of the end for your sprag bearing.

 

[Forever Wild]

This is usually signalling the beginning of the end for your sprag bearing.

someone said this to me in a private message

“.. I think the noise is the belt and part of the inner mechanism still spinning, but when you stop pedalling something disconnects and I guess it's just free spinning for a second with no load on it. It's not a mechanically confidence inspiring sound.”

There’s no accompanying power, just a second of whirring sound after I stop pedaling from high cadence (90+ rpm).

Can the sprag bearing be repaired ?

 

[Bearing Man]

Yes, but if I had to guess, I would say it is the large drive pulley sprag bearing and this one is a little more tricky. Take a look at the Brose “how to” video on my site The home of ebike motor parts -

 

[nasamorpheus]

I have Bosch gen 4 , 625Wh on cube stereo hybrid. Here is my 50 km some flat , then 1400 m elevation .. battery was 0 percent left when I came home. I have 102 kg. I think it is good result for terrain (steep forest and rocky trails).

 

[Zimmerframe]

Yes, but if I had to guess, I would say it is the large drive pulley sprag bearing and this one is a little more tricky. Take a look at the Brose “how to” video on my site The home of ebike motor parts -

Blimey, it's interesting seeing your range expand over time !!!! TOP !!

Will you be adding Bafang to your list ? Some Rob bloke on the forum's building an M500 bike at the moment which can only help create interest and the Forestal Siryon has a bafang which will probably need repairing/servicing at some point.

Once @Rob Rides EMTB has ridden the purple monster maybe he can expand the thread with another "B" Bosch , Brose or Bafang ...

 

[Hamina]

The newest Bosch CX Gen 4 variant with EMTB lite should be the one to compare to others. The occurred problems if any are different than Gen 2. It seems like the Gen 2 was made for dry urban city use and therefore all the bearing problems.

Based on my experience the new EMTB Lite mode makes the bike more natural as the maximum assistance is limited to 250% (EMTB 340%). Its difficult to compare but I would say on my riding this gives approx 10-20% more range. We might have more precise results during the spring if people update their bikes.