Breaking my Vitus eSommet for parts

[DavidL]

So my motor (e7000) developed the E010 torque sensor fault at the start of the year after hitting standing water on a single track trail. I took it to my local Shimano service center who has just yesterday contacted me to inform me that Shimano will not replace the motor under warranty as it had been chipped (steps unlocker). The cost of replacing it has been quoted at £1000 all in. I have decided that this is the end for me and ebikes. I am looking at breaking it for parts. I have two batteries one of which had only been used a couple of times. What would people suggest I sell these for?

 

[InRustWeTrust]

Why not just remove the engine and sell it? .
think it makes it easier for you, also think you will get more if you sell it that way.

 

[Gary]

What size ESommet is it?

 

[jimbob]

Out of interest, did you return the motor settings to standard before you took it in for work?

 

[Zimmerframe]

You could buy an e8000 motor and drop that in :

Shimano Étapes DU-E8000 Moteur Central E8000 70Nm 250W E-Bike Noir - Neuf | eBay

Les meilleures offres pour Shimano Étapes DU-E8000 Moteur Central E8000 70Nm 250W E-Bike Noir - Neuf sont sur eBay ✓ Comparez les prix et les spécificités des produits neufs et d'occasion ✓ Pleins d'articles en livraison gratuite!

www.ebay.fr

Or send the e7000 here to be repaired - possibly. It's not the easiest thing to repair though.

Services – E-Motor Repairs

From noisy motors to diagnosing error codes, we’ve got you covered! Take a look through our services below to find the right option for servicing or repairing your E-Bike Motor.

www.e-motorrepairs.co.uk

 

[DavidL]

What size ESommet is it?

It's xl size

 

[DavidL]

Out of interest, did you return the motor settings to standard before you took it in for work?

Yep I flashed it back. The shop also uploaded the latest Shimano firmware. Shimano were insistent on having the motor full diagnostic readout. This took months as the shop did not have the correct harness plug, then had to wait for 3 months due to covid related supply chain issues ?

 

[RickBullotta]

Used battery quality is hit-or-miss so you might not get much value for them, plus the complexity of shipping them. Most of the more generic components should sell fairly easily. Or you could spend about £600-700 for the motor and do the install yourself and then sell the bike.

 

[DavidL]

You could buy an e8000 motor and drop that in :

Shimano Étapes DU-E8000 Moteur Central E8000 70Nm 250W E-Bike Noir - Neuf | eBay

Les meilleures offres pour Shimano Étapes DU-E8000 Moteur Central E8000 70Nm 250W E-Bike Noir - Neuf sont sur eBay ✓ Comparez les prix et les spécificités des produits neufs et d'occasion ✓ Pleins d'articles en livraison gratuite!

www.ebay.fr

Or send the e7000 here to be repaired - possibly. It's not the easiest thing to repair though.

Services – E-Motor Repairs

From noisy motors to diagnosing error codes, we’ve got you covered! Take a look through our services below to find the right option for servicing or repairing your E-Bike Motor.

www.e-motorrepairs.co.uk

Thanks for the links, I'm just not sure emtb are for me. Sure I like the speed uphill, but I like to go further than they have capacity for. I've ridden it for 15 months and on a good day I could get between 40-50 miles with about 3-4000 vertical ft accent. But I can do the same or more on my analogue bike without having to worry about when the last battery bar is going to go. Plus I can do without the expense of having so many bikes (5). I have enjoyed it, but am happy to return to no pedal assist.

 

[DavidL]

Used battery quality is hit-or-miss so you might not get much value for them, plus the complexity of shipping them. Most of the more generic components should sell fairly easily. Or you could spend about £600-700 for the motor and do the install yourself and then sell the bike.

That is not music to my ears! I think the extra battery cost me just over £400 and I used it 3 times maximum ?

 

[RickBullotta]

That is not music to my ears! I think the extra battery cost me just over £400 and I used it 3 times maximum ?

If you can sell locally, it'll be much less hassle. Hopefully it's a battery that's not readily available and you'll be able to fetch a fair price for it. Good luck!

 

[Sidepod]

Oh the irony. Electric vehicles are supposed to save the planet and here we are again just filing up the land fill.

 

[DavidL]

Oh the irony. Electric vehicles are supposed to save the planet and here we are again just filing up the land fill.

Absolutely, they should be made to be repairable. It's BS that a small electronic sensor failing renders the motor inoperable.

 

[Mike D.]

So... you're abandoning e-biking because you forgot to keep your engine away from an immersive soaking...

 

[DavidL]

So... you're abandoning e-biking because you forgot to keep your engine away from an immersive soaking...

You could put it that way. I live in Scotland and cycle all season and all-weather. If an ebike is incapable of functioning as a result of water spray from the front wheel then yes they are not for me.

 

[Gary]

I see you're also in Edinburgh. I'll PM you.

 

[Dave_h34]

I sold my 2nd battery (11 cycles) for £315 locally, less than 10 miles away in fact, so it can be done. You should get £350ish for it if you're willing to post and hope the planets don't align and your battery is found to have been the cause of burning down the courier main national sorting centre :-D. There is no way to send 2nd hand batteries from personal sellers legitimately (that I could find).

 

[Old Mike]

Does anyone else think £1000 for a little electrical motor is ridiculous?

 

[Gary]

If it was just a motor yes.

 

[Old Mike]

It is just a motor isn't it?

" Shimano will not replace the motor under warranty as it had been chipped (steps unlocker). The cost of replacing it has been quoted at £1000 all in. "

 

[Old Mike]

For comparison here's the cost of manufacturing a powerful motor for an electric car.

Anybody defending £1000 ($1400) for an ebike motor is an idiot.

They're taking the piss.

And yes I do understand the difference between manufacturing cost and selling cost. That still doesn't explain the obscene price.

 

[Gary]

Oh great another motor vehicle "expert" wading in to whinge on about bicycle part prices

Anybody defending £1000 ($1400) for an ebike motor is an idiot.

And anyone comparing motor vehicle trade prices with bicycle part retail prices isn't?

The motors you have used as an example are not even vaguely comparable. But good luck fitting one of them to your Ebike

 

[Old Mike]

Oh great another motor vehicle "expert" wading in to whinge on about bicycle part prices


And anyone comparing motor vehicle trade prices with bicycle part retail prices isn't?

The motors you have used as an example are not even vaguely comparable. But good luck fitting one of them to your Ebike

I'm comparing one complex manufactured item with another.

I've worked in Manufacturing on and off my whole life - manufacturing cost is normally proportional to batch size, complexity, longevity and size. The eike motor is smaller, simpler and has less expected longevity than an electric car moror. I'm guessing batch sizes are comparable (except for Tesla and the Prius).

So your argument is a Strawman, designed to deflect. And f**k off with the winky when you're just being a twat.

And why are you defending these prices?

As an ebike rider I fail to see any advantage in ebike riders getting ripped off, which they most definitely are.

Voluntarily ripped off, I may add. Any manufacturer is ALLOWED to charge whatever they want, in fact I'd expect them to in a hot market like this, but denying they are adding a huge markup is just ridiculous on your part when its obvious they are.

Apple for instance charge 10 times more for phones that cost twice as much to manufacture than cheaper phones. I don't see that as a problem I see it as a functioning market - people are happy to pay for the prestige and design of an Apple product. But that doesn't alter the fact that Apple charge a HUUUGE markup and have massive margins. Yet you still get Apple fanboys trying to say they're value for money, rather than a fashion accessory like an Armarni handbag.

 

[Gary]

Ok. Then off you fuck to put your money where your typing digits are and manufacture us all this cheap alternative you're harping on about.

While you do Imna get off the guys thread before derailling it any further. I'm not really interested in reading any more of your unsubstantiated irrelevant ignorant nonsense.

 

[Old Mike]

Ok. Then off you **** to put your money where your typing digits are and manufacture us all this cheap alternative you're harping on about.

While you do Imna get off the guys thread before derailling it any further. I'm not really interested in reading any more of your unsubstantiated irrelevant ignorant nonsense.

"Then off you **** to put your money where your typing digits are and manufacture us all this cheap alternative you're harping on about."

I never said I could. But that's got nothing to do with this argument. Another Strawman, you're good at them. In fact its all you've got.

But its perfectly reasonable to compare one electric motor with gears with another and conclude that one of the manufacturers is charging a huge markup. As a closer example Bafang will RETAIL you a mid drive motor for £400 including all shipping and taxes. Is the Shimano one really going to cost 150% more to manufacture? In fact more than 150% because shipping, packing etc. will cost the same for the Bafang and the Shimano.

Shimano charge more because they can, simple as.

"'m not really interested in reading any more of your unsubstantiated irrelevant ignorant nonsense."

Excellent, because I'm tired of arguing with a manufacturer fanboy.

 

[Zimmerframe]

View attachment 68886

For comparison here's the cost of manufacturing a powerful motor for an electric car.

Anybody defending £1000 ($1400) for an ebike motor is an idiot.

They're taking the piss.

And yes I do understand the difference between manufacturing cost and selling cost. That still doesn't explain the obscene price.

But you can buy a bike motor quite cheaply. Those are production costs you've quoted, not retail, but you can buy a bike motor for less than £100 retail :

Wheel Hub Motor 42 Nm EST-500 V2

Wheel Hub Motor 42 Nm EST-500 V2 null Designed for replacing the wheel on your Rockrider E-ST 500 mountain bike

www.decathlon.co.uk

I think where you're missing the differences is the technology incorporated into a mid drive "motor" which is far more than just the "motor". You only have to ride the different bikes and different configurations to appreciate the vast differences in how they perform. If you're lucky enough not to notice or care, then fantastic, you can save a sh1t load of money and buy a cheaper and simpler alternative. If you want the more complicated and advanced version, it costs more. No ones forcing anyone. There are alternatives. You can buy a whole e-bike for less than £500 if you want. Complaining that expensive bikes are expensive is plain mad. If you don't want an expensive bike, buy a cheap bike.

 

[Old Mike]

But you can buy a bike motor quite cheaply. Those are production costs you've quoted, not retail, but you can buy a bike motor for less than £100 retail :

Wheel Hub Motor 42 Nm EST-500 V2

Wheel Hub Motor 42 Nm EST-500 V2 null Designed for replacing the wheel on your Rockrider E-ST 500 mountain bike

www.decathlon.co.uk

I think where you're missing the differences is the technology incorporated into a mid drive "motor" which is far more than just the "motor". You only have to ride the different bikes and different configurations to appreciate the vast differences in how they perform. If you're lucky enough not to notice or care, then fantastic, you can save a sh1t load of money and buy a cheaper and simpler alternative. If you want the more complicated and advanced version, it costs more. No ones forcing anyone. There are alternatives. You can buy a whole e-bike for less than £500 if you want. Complaining that expensive bikes are expensive is plain mad. If you don't want an expensive bike, buy a cheap bike.

Re; Those are production costs you've quoted, not retail, but you can buy a bike motor for less than £100 retail :

I addressed that.

Re; I think where you're missing the differences is the technology incorporated into a mid drive "motor" which is far more than just the "motor".

Nope, Bafang do that as well, for 40% of the cost.

Re: No ones forcing anyone. There are alternatives.

I literally said that. Just like Apple phones. I'm not BLAMING the manufacturer, simply stating that £1000 is a lot of money for an electric motor. No way does it cost them anything like that to manufacture, not even 30% of that is my guess.

But they are absolutely allowed to charge whatever they want. And I am absolutely allowed to think that its a lot of money for what you get.


Re; Complaining that expensive bikes are expensive is plain mad.

Why is it mad?

My exact quote was "Does anyone else think £1000 for a little electrical motor is ridiculous? "

Which it is.

I never said anyone should stop ebiking. I still ride my ebike (Cube 160 full suss from 2017, external battery, looks like ancient technology now), but because I'm not very rich I run an old one with spare Bosch motors off ebay and the help of bearing man.

As long as people keep paying the prices, they'll keep charging them, which is as it should be, they're not a charity.

But at least grant me the option to gasp and say "HOW MUCH???" when I see the latest carbon fibre monstrosity that costs more than a superbike.

 

[Gary]

Firstly the E7000 motor doesn't have a retail price of a grand at all. It is also not actually an off the shelf retail product so how you think Shimano and bike shops are making a fortune off selling them to punters is quite laughable. FYI Way way more are replaced FOC via warranty than are ever sold to punters like yourself. infact if you had a decent relationship with your LBS instead of slagging "them" off for "ripping you off" all the time you'd probably only be charged trade price + labour for an out of warranty motor replacement.
Shimano's largest market by far for their motors is the OEM market and guess what? Bike manufacturers don't pay anywhere near the amount you are banding about per motor. and as they buy them in bulk along with thousands of other components that price is a lot less than the trade price a bike shop would have to pay.
I'm not a fan boy in the slightest. I just happen to know a lot more about the cycle industry and how it actually works than you.
don't forget to collect your prize on the way out.

 

[Gary]

He' right £1000 is a lot of money to many people.

But he seems to have forgotten whinging on and on about the cost of everything reduces your attractiveness to women unmeasurably.

 

[Old Mike]

Firstly the E7000 motor doesn't have a retail price of a grand at all. It is also not actually an off the shelf retail product so how you think Shimano and bike shops are making a fortune off selling them to punters is quite laughable. FYI Way way more are replaced FOC via warranty than are ever sold to punters like yourself. infact if you had a decent relationship with your LBS instead of slagging "them" off for "ripping you off" all the time you'd probably only be charged trade price + labour for an out of warranty motor replacement.
Shimano's largest market by far for their motors is the OEM market and guess what? Bike manufacturers don't pay anywhere near the amount you are banding about per motor. and as they buy them in bulk along with thousands of other components that price is a lot less than the trade price a bike shop would have to pay.
I'm not a fan boy in the slightest. I just happen to know a lot more about the cycle industry and how it actually works than you.
don't forget to collect your prize on the way out.

Re: I'm not a fan boy in the slightest.

LOL

You dont fool me mate. If it walks like a duck etc. You absolutely are a fanboy.

Re: Firstly the E7000 motor doesn't have a retail price of a grand at all.

In that case why are they charging him a grand?

We'll be generous and say £100 labour. That leaves £900. Still ridiculous.

Re: infact if you had a decent relationship with your LBS instead of slagging "them" off for "ripping you off" all the time you'd probably only be charged trade price + labour for an out of warranty motor replacement.

Why would I want to do that when they do a shite job and I can fit a motor I get for half the price off ebay for free. Last time they fitted one for me under warranty they routed the harness wrong and it snapped when I was out on the moors. And fucked up my dropper post cable. And mis-adjusted my deraileur. And ripped me off for a £100 cassette I didn't need. Basically they are shit.

Another example of you simply begging to give the industry money, or begging punters to give you money in the industry.

Well done.

Re: Shimano's largest market by far for their motors is the OEM market and guess what? Bike manufacturers don't pay anywhere near the amount you are banding about per motor.

Way to go mate, you've literally just proved my point - they're ripping him off charging £1000 because its out of warranty and he has nowhere else to go. Thank you.

And I'm not "banding" anything about - its them that quoted £1000, not me.

I like arguing with you. Its like being in a boxing ring with someone who punches himself in the face all the time.