Brakes - feel & long level throw.

[Major Stare]

2022 Focus Sam2 6.8.
Have done just over 100 miles, with some steep decents and mixed dry, wet, muddy rides.

Last ride the brake lever would pull back to the grips before getting bite. Adjusting the level arm position did not help (and was too far out to use).
Purchased the SRAM bleed kit, flushed front/rear brakes, then refilled correctly and adjusted levers.
Todays ride, the rear is nearly back to the grips, the front not far off. The same as the previous ride.
The pads dont look too worn.

Is it best just to get some new pads, or is there anything else i can do?

 

[RustyIron]

Bleed the brakes with attention toward getting all the air out and not introducing more air into the system

 

[steve_sordy]

An old tip is to tie down the levers with zip ties as close to the grips as they will go, leave overnight and then bleed.

Is it both brakes or just the rear?

If it is just the rear, it is probably air trapped in the much more convoluted hose route compared to the front. Tie down the lever and stand the bike on its rear wheel to allow any air to make its way to the reservoir and then in the morning do a front lever bleed.

PS: have you got enough brake fluid in the system?

 

[Major Stare]

An old tip is to tie down the levers with zip ties as close to the grips as they will go, leave overnight and then bleed.

Is it both brakes or just the rear?

If it is just the rear, it is probably air trapped in the much more convoluted hose route compared to the front. Tie down the lever and stand the bike on its rear wheel to allow any air to make its way to the reservoir and then in the morning do a front lever bleed.

PS: have you got enough brake fluid in the system?

Rear is worse than the front.
Had another look at the rears, i dont think 2 of the pots are working as well as the other side. So possibly air?

 

[steve_sordy]

Rear is worse than the front.
Had another look at the rears, i dont think 2 of the pots are working as well as the other side. So possibly air?

I have no claim to being in any way an expert on brake faults. If it goes past basic faults I take it to my favourite LBS, they are not only good but cheap!!

However, if 2/4 of your pistons are not working properly, it is more likely to be two of them sticking. I have never done it, but I have seen on YouTube how to free them off. Seems easy if a bit of a faff.

 

[RustyMTB]

Were they always like this or has it come on? If the latter, it does sound like air is getting in & if so, they need a proper overhaul. if it's the former, look up advancing pistons on SRAM brakes, long lever throw can be a thing with them & it's easy to cure.

Either way, do get it sorted - major safety component & all that.

 

[irie]

You could try this:

"A common “trick” to aligning a hydraulic brake caliper is to slacken the mounting bolts slightly, pull the brake lever hard while the caliper is free to move, then tightening the bolts back up while the brake pads are firm against the rotor."

I do something different. My rotors are 1.8mm so I used to remove the wheel and put a piece of 1.5mm plastic between the pads, squeeze the lever to get the pistons a little closer together, release the lever, then refit the wheel.

Now I use (clean) feeler gauges to reduce the gap to where my levers are where I like them. IYSWIM.

PS when the pads are worn out and replacing them the gap might not be wide enough so you might need to carefully open up the pistons a little.

 

[Mikerb]

Cleaning the calliper pistons is a 5 minute job per calliper and if riding in foul conditions needs to be regularly...more especially on the rear calliper since it is subject to move muck being thrown at it whereas the front calliper is fairly protected by being immediately behind the fork lower. It just requires a few ear buds or similar, some IPA and a little Dot 5 to both clean and lubricate them.
Pads have nothing to do with your issue.
Bleeding closed system brakes needs to be done in a very precise way and I suspect you did not bleed the brakes properly. The lever throw will have no impact unless your SRAM brakes also have bite point adjustment (e.g like the SRAM RSC brakes), although the lever should be positioned the correct distance from the centre of the bars before you start the bleed process.
So it is all down to bleeding thoroughly. Check out the SRAM website or numerous others for the correct procedure.

The rear brake is usually more difficult to bleed than the front due ( as mentioned a bove) to the longer lines and the more convoluted route the hydraulic line has to take so in addition to making sure the lever/reservoir is higher than the calliper it also helps to tap the calliper and line to encourage air to rise to the lever. there is no need to flush through all new DOT 5 unless the DOT 5 in the system is contaminated ( ie a darker colour) and that certainly should not be the case after just 100 miles or so.

 

[Husky430]

2022 Focus Sam2 6.8.
Have done just over 100 miles, with some steep decents and mixed dry, wet, muddy rides.

Last ride the brake lever would pull back to the grips before getting bite. Adjusting the level arm position did not help (and was too far out to use).
Purchased the SRAM bleed kit, flushed front/rear brakes, then refilled correctly and adjusted levers.
Todays ride, the rear is nearly back to the grips, the front not far off. The same as the previous ride.
The pads dont look too worn.

Is it best just to get some new pads, or is there anything else i can do?

Just sounds like SRAM brakes to me

 

[Major Stare]

Thanks all for the suggestions. Plenty of things to try

 

[John Beedham]

2022 Focus Sam2 6.8.
Have done just over 100 miles, with some steep decents and mixed dry, wet, muddy rides.

Last ride the brake lever would pull back to the grips before getting bite. Adjusting the level arm position did not help (and was too far out to use).
Purchased the SRAM bleed kit, flushed front/rear brakes, then refilled correctly and adjusted levers.
Todays ride, the rear is nearly back to the grips, the front not far off. The same as the previous ride.
The pads dont look too worn.

Is it best just to get some new pads, or is there anything else i can do?

pads ... steep, fast, muddy = pad wear

 

[Mikerb]

pads ... steep, fast, muddy = pad wear

in 100 miles?..........if they are sintered pads they last hundreds of miles in steep fast muddy terrain.......and hydraulic brakes are self adjusting so it makes no difference to lever throw as they wear down.

 

[John Beedham]

in 100 miles?..........if they are sintered pads they last hundreds of miles in steep fast muddy terrain.......and hydraulic brakes are self adjusting so it makes no difference to lever throw as they wear down.

In a closed system as pads wear the lever feel and the bite point changes ….. or it does on my bikes.

 

[YZDude]

I jumped from XT to SRAM Code R on last bike. Had the same feeling of too long throw and little bite until I swapped on the HS2 rotors. Slightly thicker at 2mm. Another good bleed with the new rotors and they stop like a beast. Super progressive, I feel like I’ve never used 100% yet.

 

[Mikerb]

In a closed system as pads wear the lever feel and the bite point changes ….. or it does on my bikes.

.. so here is a test for you. Take a look at the position of the pistons relative to the pads.......you will see that they are only a few mm away from the rotor. Now remove the pads and push the pistons back until they are flat against the calliper face. Replace the pads and apply the brake. First pull on the lever will be quite long..............pull again and you will be back to the original pull you had on that brake. Check the calliper again and you will see that the pistons are just a few mm away from the rotor.
The action of the lever is only capable of moving those pistons a short distance due to the size of the reservoir in the lever and the actuation of the lever piston on it. The reservoir has a membrane/bladder allowing the ressure in the system you implemented by pulling the lever to equalise.........allowing the pistons to retract by the same amount. Depending on the thickness of the rotor and the state of wear of the pads you may have to pull the lever twice after pushing the pistons back to return to the bite point you previously had.............but the gap between the pads and the rotor will always only be the amount by which the lever piston acting on the reservoir can achieve. High end brakes allow you to adjust bite point in relation to lever position by moving the position of the lever piston on the reservoir.

 

[Major Stare]

.. so here is a test for you. Take a look at the position of the pistons relative to the pads.......you will see that they are only a few mm away from the rotor. Now remove the pads and push the pistons back until they are flat against the calliper face. Replace the pads and apply the brake. First pull on the lever will be quite long..............pull again and you will be back to the original pull you had on that brake. Check the calliper again and you will see that the pistons are just a few mm away from the rotor.
The action of the lever is only capable of moving those pistons a short distance due to the size of the reservoir in the lever and the actuation of the lever piston on it. The reservoir has a membrane/bladder allowing the ressure in the system you implemented by pulling the lever to equalise.........allowing the pistons to retract by the same amount. Depending on the thickness of the rotor and the state of wear of the pads you may have to pull the lever twice after pushing the pistons back to return to the bite point you previously had.............but the gap between the pads and the rotor will always only be the amount by which the lever piston acting on the reservoir can achieve. High end brakes allow you to adjust bite point in relation to lever position by moving the position of the lever piston on the reservoir.

Thanks, i will give that a try

 

[Mikehorti]

I’m a novice home mechanic, but am enjoying the learning curve. I watched SRAM’s bleed video, as well as GMBN and other pro mechanic vids to compare the process.
I recently upgraded to the RSC’s and HSC rotors and after following the process from the vids and using SRAM’s bleed kit (much better than Epic Bleed Solutions and worth the extra cost imo), I still struggled to get the rear bleed just right.
So on my 3rd attempt, I tilted the rear of the bike further down in the bike stand to increase the incline to the lever and got more air out of the line and now the brakes are perfect

 

[Mikerb]

I’m a novice home mechanic, but am enjoying the learning curve. I watched SRAM’s bleed video, as well as GMBN and other pro mechanic vids to compare the process.
I recently upgraded to the RSC’s and HSC rotors and after following the process from the vids and using SRAM’s bleed kit (much better than Epic Bleed Solutions and worth the extra cost imo), I still struggled to get the rear bleed just right.
So on my 3rd attempt, I tilted the rear of the bike further down in the bike stand to increase the incline to the lever and got more air out of the line and now the brakes are perfect

well done! The route the rear brake hose takes does mean part of it can be marginally lower than the calliper in some cases but regardless in my experience it always help to have the bike angled as much as possible and keep tapping the calliper and any part of the hose that is exposed.

 

[Mikehorti]

well done! The route the rear brake hose takes does mean part of it can be marginally lower than the calliper in some cases but regardless in my experience it always help to have the bike angled as much as possible and keep tapping the calliper and any part of the hose that is exposed.

Don’t get me started on the cable route! Was impossible on my Whyte e-150 using a cable routing tool but removing the motor cover was the key to success. Amazingly tight behind there!

 

[claypot]

I watched some good youtube vids that all said to take wheel off and pads out use ether bleeding block or old pads and piece of old disk. I used a bleeding block and managed to make them worse. SRAM says change pads once plate and pad are under 3mm, mine were 2.5mm so pads not flash but I thought the code's are meant to keep self adjusting and extend the piston further to take up the wear, seems mine wasn't. In the end I just put the caliper syringe on and pushed more fluid in until the pistons extended to where I was happy with the lever travel. This was heaps easier as I left wheel on and only connected to the caliper.

 

[Paulquattro]

Hi
Dont mean to state the obvious here but if the bikes 100 miles old take it back and get them to sort it .

 

[Andrew426]

I

Hi
Dont mean to state the obvious here but if the bikes 100 miles old take it back and get them to sort it .

Don't think they would warranty it as that's just how SRAM brake normally feel. It's a feature, a bit like ABS.

 

[Paulquattro]

I

Don't think they would warranty it as that's just how SRAM brake normally feel. It's a feature, a bit like ABS.

What you mean is there that crap they will never lock up