Bought two Levos, strange difference in power

[ckris]

Hi folks,

last week I got two new Levos, a 2020 Comp for me and a 2019 Carbon Expert for my wife.
Not the right weather here currently, so only a couple of short test rides were possible.

However, it turned out that my wife's bike is much faster than mine. Meaning with her bike you can fly uphill where I have to do quite some work with mine. It's not the rider or rider weight, it really is the bike. I tried that several times, might look kind of funny with her size S bike, mine is a XL

I'm clueless. How is that possible? All settings in MC are identical and there is no motor or battery difference between the 2019 and 2020 model. Before I hit the dealer (a 2h drive by car ), does anyone have an idea what could be wrong here?

Thanks!
Chris

 

[Zimmerframe]

So is the problem that one bike is slower than the other ? or that HER's is faster than YOUR's ?

Are they both the same battery size ?

Is the effect the same in ECO, TRAIL and TURBO ? or just in one of those modes ?

Have you tried swapping the batteries in case it's a battery issue ? (turn bike upside down, unplug cable, remove battery bolt, slide battery out)

If you run diagnostics on the motor and battery in MC, I take it they all check out ok ?

This is easier if you have a phone mount. But if you run up MC and put it it diagnostics and select battery, scroll to the bottom .. and then ride as hard as you can in turbo, it should show the power the motor is using. Is this result the same on both bikes ?

 

[Jdog]

Must be the added weight of not being Carbon

Jokes aside what do you mean by so much faster? this is the same motor and battery right? 2.1 and 700wh?
Firstly a stupid question but you haven't mentioned the mode each bike is in, are you comparing apples for apples here? (eco vs turbo will obviously be different but just sense checking)
Is the battery charge the same?
Screenshots of mission control settings?
Tyre pressures?
To be clear on this, you've personally ridden the wife's bike to confirm it is faster? to rule out rider weight or input?

 

[LevilKenevil]

From my experience, I would suspect firmware differences here.

From owning a 2018 Levo and having multiple firmware updates over the 18 months, ive found that my bike has slowed considerably from the day i purchased it. I suspect that Spesh are taming the motors power as way of trying to mitigate motor problems and failures, although its just my theory.

Im a lot fitter and stronger now than when i bought the bike, but i have uphill strava times that i just cant get near on the latest firmware.

 

[Galion]

From my experience, I would suspect firmware differences here.

From owning a 2018 Levo and having multiple firmware updates over the 18 months, ive found that my bike has slowed considerably from the day i purchased it.

Im a lot fitter and stronger now than when i bought the bike, but i have uphill strava times that i just cant get near on the latest firmware

Yep, my never updated 2017 is a rocket compared to my 2020.

 

[ckris]

thanks for the replies.

I have no numbers, yet. Will collect data with Blevo or MC when the weather is better.

Both batteries are 700W, all firmware versions (i.e. all I can read with MC) are identical.
Rode both bikes myself and used Turbo for testing.

Wife's bike runs like a cheetah and especially uphill it feels much quicker. Hard to describe, it's like switching from Trial to Turbo. But I am already on Turbo on both bikes.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

However, it turned out that my wife's bike is much faster than mine.

Don’t you hate that when it happens?

I’m going to leave no stone unturned. If per chance everything else checks out to be evenly working (motor battery firmware etc), and the discrepancy is still apparent... could it be that what you’re ‘feeling’ is the difference in frame size?

Just a thought (however unlikely).

 

[ckris]

you know, after 30 years every husband has learned the golden rule: Do what your wife says and nobody gets hurt

But no, the difference is real. It's not a "little difference", it is obvious after a second.
Too bad I don't have a third Levo to compare...

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

^ Oh drat, another golden rule! I can't remember all the other golden rules I have already... not to mention the "no gap" rule. It doesn't matter if you answered correctly - if there was a pause or gap before you answered, you're done - haha.

Yeah, that could be anything - from complex controller error to something dragging along the drivetrain, even brake pads.

It's my understanding that the dealer should have advanced computer diagnostics that can check everything and printout a itemised report... that's probably the first thing you need to do before you start pulling things apart. Get it on record in case a warranty claim needs to be made (just in case self repair this early on might jeopardise that).

 

[JetSetDemo]

I would not stand for this, answer is simple switch the motor and batterie before she gets the chance burn you up on the trails, maybe not all motors are equal?

 

[Mikerb]

were both bikes zero mileage and zero battery charge full cycles when you bought them? The 2019 if from a lbs could well have been demoed a few times meaning the battery has had a couple of cycles and motor freed up. Other than that I do not believe your story anyway....who the heck buys a better bike for his wife than himself

 

[Frank_Denmark]

If the modes are the same, it could be the Motor Current of Acceleration Response

 

[Rusty]

Noticed a difference between my Levo and a couple others at my club race last night. I was sitting on the limiter 32kph and the guys in front of me were pulling away. I know one of them has not even connected up a phone app and is just riding it as delivered.
I can see acelleration being sharper for them being lighter, but if I am peddling my ring out and not getting any speed increase all I can think of is perhaps a firmware level difference ... or I have a shit motor. With my Scott you feel things change and you have to work to pedal through 32kph but on a slight down slope I can work at it and get 40+ but on the Levo it just doesn't happen.

 

[thewildblue]

Maybe you need to do a reset of power settings for each level on your comp. Recently I saw a 2019 Kenevo decide to reset itself to 67/67 for all 3 settings.

Some motors are better than others, on my Levo on the first motor I found that once battery dropped below 50% and I was pushing on ( usually road riding home) it would cut in and out. Did that from new. New motor in and it doesnt do it. It was also strange when resuming pedalling regardless of the accel setting on the app. New one doesn't have this nor does my partners Levo which is on an early firmware.

 

[StevenM]

Don’t ride with your wife.

problem solved

 

[ckris]

Don’t ride with your wife.

problem solved

Well, in the long run I would be (much) faster anyway

No, the annoying part here is that I've paid a fortune for two brand new bikes and one seems to have much less power than it *should* have. At least I think so...another explanation is that wife's bike is a "one out of 10000" which just has exzessive performance. But that's unlikely I think.

As soon as I can I'll collect data with Blevo and will post it here for discussion.

 

[ckris]

If the modes are the same, it could be the Motor Current of Acceleration Response


View attachment 21965

I don't have any setting for motor current in the MC app.
Is your's the old version?

 

[Frank_Denmark]

Sorry I found the info about the MC App online, as I always use the Blevo App.
I the Blevo You can change all seetings including Current and Acceleration.

My Levo use to peak out at 580 watts
With current at about 75% Current
I have now via Blevo changed the Current to 100% - and at yesterdays ride it peaked at 774 watts

 

[Zimmerframe]

If you can ride with MC running and monitoring, you should be able to gauge this information. It should peak at close to 20Amps if it's working properly on a fully charged battery. You do have to watch the screen though as you do it.

So you'd see something like this :

The Current number will change as you ride to show how much is being drawn by the motor.

If you've cross checked all the settings and they're the same, the most likely option is that one of the batteries has a fault so can't deliver full power. The easiest way of proving this is by swapping the batteries.

At least if you can pin point the problem before hand then you'll only need one trip to the bike shop. Unless you just give the Mrs the crap battery and don't worry about it. After a few weeks she'll have Buns of Steel as she tries to keep up with you.

The other thing to do is to run MC and in configuration, select the rest/default settings - this should set everything to standard just in case something has become corrupted.

The only other probably consideration is that the guy in the bike shop really really liked your Mrs and gave her one of the "gold/VIP" rated motors.

 

[Eddy Current]

I read somewhere Levos, from stock, came with two differents power maps, 700wh or 500wh ... just go to the store, check and ask to change it, no warranty problems.

edit: @Frank_Denmark i guess this what happened with yours.

 

[Frank_Denmark]

@Eddy Current: I just changed the value for max Current in the Blevo App.
I must admit that have never before bothered to figure out what this value was all about.
Know I know for sure

Once again the Blevo is the best App for Levos...

 

[Bomble]

How do you change the current in BLEvo? I can’t seem to find the setting.

 

[Frank_Denmark]

After connecting with the bike You get the menu for settings. Eco, Trail and Turbo.
Below this You have the CM = Current Motor

 

[Bomble]

Aah mine looks different to that.

 

[ckris]

So another short test (it's so cold here ):

Both bikes peak at 20A. Battery is good, no doubt about that.
What I did in the meantime was resetting all TCU settings, charge both batteries (both have two cycles now), then set up both bikes the same way in Blevo, using 100/100 for Turbo.

I used Blevo to take the data, rode both bikes myself. Same short trip, about 2km, half of it uphill.

My bike: Peak power 769W, max rider power 407W
Wife's bike: Peak Power 768W, max rider power 255W

The quite big difference in rider power prolly has to do with the frame size (XL vs. S). With my bike I can push much harder than with the tiny S frame.

Today I didn't have the feeling that my wife's bike is the so-much-more-powerful one, but still it (i.e. the motor) feels much more responsive, stronger, more aggressive in response.

However, it seems I have to accept that. The numbers are fine and so wifey not only owns the better and nicer bike, also the more powerful one. Life is unfair

 

[beutelfuchs]

Did you factory reset your bike via the hardware on/off & mode buttons? The manual describes how to do that exactly.

 

[ckris]

yep, exactly that way.