Bosch Performance Line CX - Replace EU motor with US version?

[venicenerd]

I’m really interested in purchasing a Riese and Müller Charger 4 Vario. However, since I’m located in Spain the bike would be limited to 25km/h. The same model in the US is limited to 32km/h.

I know tuning chips like the Speedbox 1.0B exist but from everything I could gather online it seems to be a hit or miss, unreliable, solution. I also don’t like the hacky way it’ll display the speed and that it may break with firmware updates in the future.

So I was wondering if it is possible to purchase another Bosch Performance Line CX Motor in the US and replace the one in my EU model. Would that even be possible?

Also is it actually the motor where Bosch limits the speed? Or would changing out the motor with a US version still not give me the 32km/h I’m looking for?

TLDR: I want to replace my EU Bosch Performance Line CX with the US version to allow speeds up to 32km/h. Is this technically possible?

 

[Expidia]

Welcome venicenerd . . . I'm sure you will get some more replies but my guess is it would be a lot cheaper with the same end result by using a speed enhancing chip. By the way . . . I owned a Giant with the 28 mph limit and the current Trek I own has a 20 mph limit. There is really not that much of a difference with an 8 mph increase because both of them (and yours too) allow you to go as fast as you like anyway. I hit 34 mph going down an incline on my ride two days ago on my 20 mph "assisted" Trek. Also, keep in mind the rated limits of the tires you are currently using. I'd hate to have a blow out at 35 mph on any bike!

 

[venicenerd]

Welcome venicenerd . . . I'm sure you will get some more replies but my guess is it would be a lot cheaper with the same end result by using a spped enhancing chip. By the way . . . I owned a Giant with the 28 mph limit and the current Trek I own has a 20 mph limit. There is really not that much of a difference with an 8 mph increase because both of them (and yours too) allow you to go as fast as you like anyway. I hit 34 mph going down an incline on my ride two days ago on my 20 mph "assisted" Trek. Also, keep in mind the rated limits of the tires you are currently using. I'd hate to have a blow out at 35 mph on any bike!

Hi Expidia! Thanks for your reply! I looked into the speed chips but it seems like they are extremely unreliable with the new Bosch Smart System. They also will not correctly display your speed on the display and could break with firmware updates. I'm not sure I want to spend this much money and then have a flaky chip ruin the experience for me.

I currently own a VanMoof 3 where I can easily change the region via Software between EU and US and to me the difference between 25km/h and 32km/h is night and day. I HATED my bike until I found out I can increase the speed to changing it to US setting. So I would never want to own an ebike that is limited to 25km/h. It's just not for me.

So I'm trying to see if there would be another solution besides the chip. I know it would cost a lot more to purchase a brand new US motor but if that would indeed give me native 32km/h speed, without limiting my smart system, I would be willing to bite.

 

[Expidia]

Hi Expidia! Thanks for your reply! I looked into the speed chips but it seems like they are extremely unreliable with the new Bosch Smart System. They also will not correctly display your speed on the display and could break with firmware updates. I'm not sure I want to spend this much money and then have a flaky chip ruin the experience for me.

I currently own a VanMoof 3 where I can easily change the region via Software between EU and US and to me the difference between 25km/h and 32km/h is night and day. I HATED my bike until I found out I can increase the speed to changing it to US setting. So I would never want to own an ebike that is limited to 25km/h. It's just not for me.

So I'm trying to see if there would be another solution besides the chip. I know it would cost a lot more to purchase a brand new US motor but if that would indeed give me native 32km/h speed, without limiting my smart system, I would be willing to bite.

You should first do some searching in the various threads in the forum as there are many contrarian opinions to the comments you are making about using a speed chip. I don't know if there are chips already out there to Bosch's latest motor system, but I'm sure there will be very soon. There are many users here that have upgraded their firmware using speed chips several times with no issues. Putting a chip on and then taking it off again before bringing it in for a warranty repair also seems to be a fallacy in that Bosch can tell you had a chip on it and took it off.

I would try the chip route first if and when they become available. Then you will have a better feel if the 8 mph increase was all that worth it (it really isn't as I owned both 20 and 28 and using both at the same time). And if going through the hassle and expense of another motor is worth it to you. You can always resell the chip online.

* And if accurate speed was your concern a simple, cheap Garmin or similar will display your speed by GPS.

 

[Hardtail]

Hi @venicenerd, theoretically you could change the motor to a US version already set up with the 32km/h limit, but you would not be able to do any updates or troubleshooting because if you need to take it to a service centre in the EU they will set it back to 25km/h limit. Otherwise, you could find a LBS near you that will set the limit to US 32km/h, or are they locked by being registered in the US?

I have been running a Volspeed V4 on my Bosch CX Gen 4, non-smart, for 2 years set to 99km/h. The only time I got the anti-tamper error was after torrential rain, the connectors were corroded. I replaced and sealed the connectors and all has been well for many rough and fast miles in all sorts of weather. When I was researching I read all the horror stories etc, especially about keeping the de-restricted limit to 32km/h, which clearly doesn't matter for Volspeed, I did my research on which chip is the best and made my choice. BTW mine still reads and records the correct speed and distance over the limit.

Surely there are new chips available for the Bosch smart system that work well.

 

[venicenerd]

Hi @venicenerd, theoretically you could change the motor to a US version already set up with the 32km/h limit, but you would not be able to do any updates or troubleshooting because if you need to take it to a service centre in the EU they will set it back to 25km/h limit. Otherwise, you could find a LBS near you that will set the limit to US 32km/h, or are they locked by being registered in the US?

I have been running a Volspeed V4 on my Bosch CX Gen 4, non-smart, for 2 years set to 99km/h. The only time I got the anti-tamper error was after torrential rain, the connectors were corroded. I replaced and sealed the connectors and all has been well for many rough and fast miles in all sorts of weather. When I was researching I read all the horror stories etc, especially about keeping the de-restricted limit to 32km/h, which clearly doesn't matter for Volspeed, I did my research on which chip is the best and made my choice. BTW mine still reads and records the correct speed and distance over the limit.

Surely there are new chips available for the Bosch smart system that work well.

What is an LBS? So there are actually places that can set the motor speed natively?

The chip situation seems very complicated for the smart speed system. I have spent all week looking into it and it does not look reliable yet. Maybe in the future. I just don’t wanna bet on it. I want to find a “for sure” way to get my bike to 32km/h. If I can’t do that I’ll stick with my crappy VanMoof until the situation changes. 25km/h is a no go for me. If I spent this much money I really want to love it.

 

[Doomanic]

Otherwise, you could find a LBS near you that will set the limit to US 32km/h, or are they locked by being registered in the US?

Shops can only visit the relevant region portal so a shop in the EU cannot log on to the US portal.

 

[irie]

What is an LBS?

Local Bike Shop

 

[venicenerd]

Shops can only visit the relevant region portal so a shop in the EU cannot log on to the US portal.

@Doomanic I go to the US a lot. So you are saying that I could take my EU motor with me, go to a dealer in the US, and have him reflash my firmware with the US version?

And then once I install the motor again in my EU bike I will still have 32km/h and can use the KIOX300 and Flo Software as if I have a US bike? I don’t also have to update the KIOX firmware to the US version?

 

[Doomanic]

Sorry, not a clue.

 

[Sgarth42]

I am suprised that there are no aftermarket controllers being produced to replace the Bosch one to allow the user to modify the setting themselves. ( I am thinking for me further down the line when out or warranty as Iike to service at home) Failing that that some one hasn't developed software that will allow the user to connect to their PC and overide the Bosch firmware. Just about everything else can be hacked

 

[aegidius]

Bosch have the whole speed limit thing locked down very tightly. You need not only secret codes but also a hardware dongle which only Bosch dealers have. I too am surprised nobody has jailbroken a Bosch motor, but I guess there are a lot more Iphones than Bosch motors...

 

[aegidius]

In a similar vein, has anyone in Australia fitted a NZ spec motor to get the 32km/h limit? I'd be curious about doing that, although I'd have to keep firmware updates away from it, and it appears Bosch have not made it easy to buy motors separately. With money no object, maybe just go over the ditch and bring back a bike...

 

[Sgarth42]

What I find makes no sense in the UK is that there seems to be a big push to make all villages, towns and city centre road max 20mph (despite the public backlash) So surely it would make more sense to up the limit on ebike assistance to match that. That would keep traffic flowwing more smoothly at the same speeds and negate the need for cars to "squeeze past" cyclist and putting their lives in danger. Or is that too obvious?

 

[steve_sordy]

What I find makes no sense in the UK is that there seems to be a big push to make all villages, towns and city centre road max 20mph (despite the public backlash) So surely it would make more sense to up the limit on ebike assistance to match that. That would keep traffic flowwing more smoothly at the same speeds and negate the need for cars to "squeeze past" cyclist and putting their lives in danger. Or is that too obvious?

It's an idea worth promoting. It will also provide a Brexit benefit to all the e-bike owners out there.

 

[aegidius]

I have always argued against the 25km/h limit because it stops ebikes being what they truly could be - a safe and viable car alternative. If you can't keep up with 40-50km/h city traffic in places where there is no separation of lanes, there is an obvious danger. And it's totally avoidable. Sure, police a 25km/h limit on bike paths (they are supposed to do that anyway) but don't force it to be built in to every ebike regardless of where it is ridden. (we don't have speed pedelecs in Australia but they aren't the answer anyway, as they are not allowed on bike paths)

 

[Sgarth42]

There are petitions - but keep getting thrown out - I think the 20mph spedd limit in towns & cities could give the safety as well as traffic flow more grounds for consideration. Sadly it needs 10,000 signatures before being pushed to parliament and currently at only 280 :-

Archived Petition: Increase e-bike maximum assisted speed from 15.5mph to 20mph

After 15.5mph e-bikes can be ridden quicker, but the rider will no longer receive assistance from the motor.

petition.parliament.uk

 

[JP-NZ]

I have always argued against the 25km/h limit because it stops ebikes being what they truly could be - a safe and viable car alternative. If you can't keep up with 40-50km/h city traffic in places where there is no separation of lanes, there is an obvious danger. And it's totally avoidable. Sure, police a 25km/h limit on bike paths (they are supposed to do that anyway) but don't force it to be built in to every ebike regardless of where it is ridden. (we don't have speed pedelecs in Australia but they aren't the answer anyway, as they are not allowed on bike paths)

In my city (population 550,000) majority of the CBD is 30kph so its bike friendly plus we have 100's of kms of bike lanes. I don't necessarily agree with the thoughts on keeping up with 40/50kph traffic is dangerous though. I find that 90% of drivers are oblivious to cyclists and if your riding above 40kph next to a car your going to have a much more painful accident than at 20-25kph.

 

[Sgarth42]

In my city (population 550,000) majority of the CBD is 30kph so its bike friendly plus we have 100's of kms of bike lanes. I don't necessarily agree with the thoughts on keeping up with 40/50kph traffic is dangerous though. I find that 90% of drivers are oblivious to cyclists and if your riding above 40kph next to a car your going to have a much more painful accident than at 20-25kph.

Point accepted but where I am In the UK cyclist share space on the road with cars. Very busy and very little space made worse by deliberate narrowing of roads in an attempt to slow traffic down. The upshot being frustrated drivers squeezing past cyclists. Obviously it up to the individual on their ebike to decide the speed that they are most comfortable but I stand by my point

 

[JP-NZ]

Point accepted but where I am In the UK cyclist share space on the road with cars. Very busy and very little space made worse by deliberate narrowing of roads in an attempt to slow traffic down. The upshot being frustrated drivers squeezing past cyclists. Obviously it up to the individual on their ebike to decide the speed that they are most comfortable but I stand by my point

Hah part of my daily cycle commute is on a ring road with a 60kph limit (most do 70kph) and I cycle with no separation often with Huge 40-60T truck and trailers passing me with less than 30-40cm from the end of my handlebars.

Certainly dicing with danger every morning. Sadly for such a small country New Zealand has on average 11 cycle deaths per year.

 

[laissez]

It can be done, these Germans sell programmed Bosch motors you can buy US variant and provide your bikes information and they program it for you:

BOSCH Perfomance Line CX 2020 (GEN4) - Bosch eBike-System 2

BOSCH Perfomance Line CX 2020 Generation 4 (GEN4), Bosch eBike-System 2 (NICHT Smartes System) (Modelljahr 2020)

ebike-doktor.de

 

[aegidius]

passing me with less than 30-40cm from the end of my handlebars.

Some Australian states (not sure which ones but Qld where I live does) have legislated that motorists must give 1 metre separation (1.5m if 80km/h). I have never had any problems on the road, most drivers are patient if they need to wait to pass safely.